WSI for Western Sydney Airport

[Mrmrbagley]

without a curfew, I would expect quite a number of international airlines will take this opportunity to fly those midnight departure flights to Asia and NZ, arriving to destination at early morning say 5-6am, allowing connecting to the rest of their network of flights.

It would also help if WSI is marked as a “regional airport” so is not restricted by flight quotas. Not sure if this is possible.

Will also be great for flights back from Perth especially during daylight savings. I'd be quite happy to catch a 5pm that arrives at midnight rather than stay an additional day or do the awkward overnight flight

 

[dajop]

without a curfew, I would expect quite a number of international airlines will take this opportunity to fly those midnight departure flights to Asia and NZ, arriving to destination at early morning say 5-6am, allowing connecting to the rest of their network of flights.

If MEL is anything to go by, TG, SQ, CX and MH historically all had departures to their hubs around midnight, wouldn't be surprised if one or more of these is looking at services for WSI. Although an inbound arriving at 9:30pm could be a PITA for getting to eastern/northern Sydney.

 

[serfty]

Maybe the Government will legislate to largely force airlines to use it, similar to what Japan did with NRT over HND.

 

[kamchatsky]

Maybe the Government will legislate to largely force airlines to use it, similar to what Japan did with NRT over HND.

Is that even allowed given SYD is privately managed? Wouldn't they need to be compensated for this?

 

[Lynda2475]

Maybe the Government will legislate to largely force airlines to use it, similar to what Japan did with NRT over HND.

That would be terrible.

 

[dajop]

That would be terrible.

Agreed. If the government want airlines and people from Greater Sydney (as a whole) to use the airport. rather than legislating, invest in a HKG style rapid, frequent train service into a city terminal where people can also check in for their flights.

Other than that, the airport still has the potential to serve about the population of Adelaide - that being people in the LGA's which are mostly or entirely closer to WSI than SYD. Different to AVV, where in Melbourne itself, there is only 1 LGA with about 300,000 people that is predominantly closer to AVV then MEL, although there's another 300,000 in Geelong/Surf Coast etc.

 

[jb747]

There will be a four letter code too. It will start with YS…

WSI is the 3 letter IATA code, and the 4 letter will come from ICAO.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Is that even allowed given SYD is privately managed? Wouldn't they need to be compensated for this?

This is actually outlined by the government on this page:

As part of the sale of Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport in 2002, the purchaser (Sydney Airport Group) was given the Right of First Refusal to develop and operate a second major airport in the Sydney region.

In 2016, a Notice of Intention was issued to the Sydney Airport Group, providing detailed terms for the development and operation of Western Sydney International (Nancy-Bird Walton) Airport (WSI). This included the condition that construction commence by late 2018 and the airport be operational by 2026.

The Notice of Intention was carefully developed to ensure the new airport would deliver the best deal for the Western Sydney community.

After considering the offer, Sydney Airport Group declined the opportunity to build and operate the airport. This meant that the Australian Government had the choice to either offer the project to another private company or build and operate the airport itself.

On 2 May 2017, the Australian Government announced it would take on the project by creating a Government-owned company, Western Sydney Airport Co Limited (WSA Co), to build the airport.

 

[moa999]

Maybe the Government will legislate to largely force airlines to use it, similar to what Japan did with NRT over HND.

Very different scenarios. This is being developed as a 2nd airport, with its own catchment area in Western Sydney.. SYD will be multiple times larger than WSI for decades.

 

[elanshin]

Honestly, the easiest way to attract airlines is simple. $$$. Offering cheaper slots, costs to use facilities. 24 hour services and you'll see airlines move over. The full service will just operate both airports. Something like SQ might operate a much later overnight now which gets to SIN at 6am for example. Shift 1 or 2 of their 4 flights to SYD over to WSI.

Also would give other airlines more slots into Sydney. Id imagine that air India wouldn't mind moving more operations to WSI and then being able to operate more slots and times to different cities in India. Afaik Australia has no direct flights to Mumbai. Possibly Chinese carriers too and those are both massively growing markets that have very relevant demographics in Sydney.

 

[AIRwin]

Something like SQ might operate a much later overnight now which gets to SIN at 6am for example. Shift 1 or 2 of their 4 flights to SYD over to WSI.

Similar to how SQ operates to both HND and NRT

 

[dairyfloss]

I think it's more likely that SQ would shift Scoot and SQ Cargo services to WSI, and re-purpose their slots for mainline into SYD. Air India, on the other hand, I can see that happening.

 

[dajop]

I think it's more likely that SQ would shift Scoot and SQ Cargo services to WSI, and re-purpose their slots for mainline into SYD. Air India, on the other hand, I can see that happening.

I agree, I don’t think they would move any of their mainline services to WSI. However I do think it is possible they add a service that leaves from WSI around midnight - such services seem to work well for them from MEL, BNE , AKL and PER.

 

[elanshin]

I think it's more likely that SQ would shift Scoot and SQ Cargo services to WSI, and re-purpose their slots for mainline into SYD. Air India, on the other hand, I can see that happening.

Oh im sure almost most of the LCCs would migrate to WSI (RIP QFF Plat flying JQi and going to the F lounge).

I'd imagine full service carriers like SQ CX would want to mainly still be at SYD especially the ones that have significant investments already there but operate a late flights from WSI. A ~00:00 departing WSI landing at ~0600 in HKG would allow CX to connect to the rest of their morning departures from HKG.

But yes the more I think about India and the next decade, i wouldn't be surprised if there's significant growth in travel between Aus and India. I think SYD currently only has 1 daily flight to India which feels like a criminally low amount.

 

[dairyfloss]

I agree, I don’t think they would move any of their mainline services to WSI. However I do think it is possible they add a service that leaves from WSI around midnight - such services seem to work well for them from MEL, BNE , AKL and PER.

Not sure it would be worth the energy for a single service to depart later in the evening, unless they perhaps ran totally on contracted ground staff. This is where an alliance member like AI deciding to go all in might help. SQ is too premium not to have options for it's bells and whistles at any port. Premium check-in, lounge, etc. all need to be available.

 

[http_x92]

I also wouldn't be surprised if some company sets up a regular bus service from the airport to a bus stop around Central station using the M12 and then onto the M5-M1. No traffic lights. Though it could be a mare around peak hour.

 

[samh004]

With no curfew I can't imagine it'll be long before there's significant interest. If the transport connections are operational from day one and not much longer (time-wise) than existing from SYD then I think the choice will be simple and rapid expansion will occur. I'm sure many will disagree with me, especially as WSI was designed to be a second airport, but I can see this eventually – sooner rather than later – turning into a Kai Tak to Chek Lap Kok type move where SYD ceases to be, or if it remains open, in a very limited capacity. While I'm sure it would do a lot better with less traffic and might actually operate properly, I for one would rather fly into WSI (assuming reliable and decent public transport connections) with all the benefits a brand new, no curfew airport offers, than spend any more time around Mascot. YMMV.

I'm sure many businesses/airlines will be saying one thing and secretly investigating and planning for the future possibilities in the future in the background. I think it would be mad to hold onto the hope SYD could ever match the space and flexibility that comes from an entirely new build in a spot without all the restrictions SYD currently has.

 

[elanshin]

Not sure it would be worth the energy for a single service to depart later in the evening, unless they perhaps ran totally on contracted ground staff. This is where an alliance member like AI deciding to go all in might help. SQ is too premium not to have options for it's bells and whistles at any port. Premium check-in, lounge, etc. all need to be available.

I'd imagine there would be at minimum third party lounges if Star A doesn't have major. QF will almost certainly also be operating so I'd imagine OW would be covered.

 

[kamchatsky]

Agreed. If the government want airlines and people from Greater Sydney (as a whole) to use the airport. rather than legislating, invest in a HKG style rapid, frequent train service into a city terminal where people can also check in for their flights.

Other than that, the airport still has the potential to serve about the population of Adelaide - that being people in the LGA's which are mostly or entirely closer to WSI than SYD. Different to AVV, where in Melbourne itself, there is only 1 LGA with about 300,000 people that is predominantly closer to AVV then MEL, although there's another 300,000 in Geelong/Surf Coast etc.

That would most likely be extension of Sydney West Metro connecting Westmead to WSI. Hunter St to Westmead is already under way but won't finish until 2030. Liberal is proposing building a business case for it in this upcoming election.

 

[justinbrett]

There will be a four letter code too. It will start with YS…

WSI is the 3 letter IATA code, and the 4 letter will come from ICAO.

As I speculated in the other thread:

I predict the ICAO code will be YSSW

Historically in Australia the ICAO codes came from the main Navid - three letter navaids got Y + xx_ (eg YWLM) and two letter navaids got Y + the old FIR + xx (eg YSRI, YBCG).

But navaids are going out of fashion, with SY replaced by TESAT, CG replaced by GOMOL (there are still SY and CG navaids but no longer used for air rotues)

There was a directive that came out a few years ago by CASA or AsA (I can't remember which), that all airports are to be named city - descriptor - I think after the YBWW fiasco. Noting the airport name used in AIP can differ from the commercial/IATA name (eg Williamtown vs Newcastle)

So it's almost certain to be called Sydney / Nancy Bird Walton in ERSA etc (YSSY is Sydney / Kingsford Smith) and not Western Sydney. But I could be proved wrong.

It won't be YWSI - that already exists (Wirrida Siding in SA)

They might need to give Chuck his first name back and call it Sydney / Charles Kingsford Smith so they match. Actually now I think about it, if they just name it Sydney / Walton, the W can stand for West or Walton depending on your preference.