YQ - Master Thread

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Duffa

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Now that we have the option to credit our points to so many programs (e.g. Amex or Citi Privilege) I'd like to know in advance what the surcharges are on each airline - before I commit to points transfer. IMHO, they make quite a difference to the final price. So here is my knowledge for those airlines on the kangaroo route.
If any other members can help out with their personal experience that would be great.

AUS - LHR rtn in J ( I know that APD is a major component of the surcharge, though I can't understand why some carriers seem to be able to absorb it?)


  1. Qantas $1000+
  2. Virgin $140
  3. Emirates $1200 +
  4. Etihad
  5. Singapore $1200+
  6. Malaysian $1000+
  7. Qatar
  8. Lufthansa
  9. Thai
  10. Cathay $600+


Please feel free to add/contradict/confirm. This is an information forum for the benefit of members - to achieve their best return on investment.
 
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Where did you get those numbers?

YQ refers to fuel surcharges (or, in rare cases, other carrier imposed surcharges, as sometimes the fuel is coded as YR). It doesn't mean all of the other taxes and fees which, except for some rare programmes, can't be escaped in payment. The latter includes, for example, the UK Air Passenger Duty, which is not coded as YQ.

As I said, except for very select frequent flyer programmes (of which according to your current list, none of them I believe do), only fuel is the surcharge which can be escaped, not other surcharges which are imposed by governments, airports etc.. So for example, with #2 Virgin, I can't believe that AU/LON is $140 return. I could believe that for one-way AU to LON, but not return. EDIT: In fact, did a quick dummy check for SYD/LHR using Velocity, whether the return combination is SQ/SQ, EY/EY or EY/VA, the co-payment is about $380 or so, unless you wish to absorb the surcharges cost in points rather than cash (whereupon it will be about 60k points to absorb that amount). The outbound surcharges are about $100 or so, therefore in total it is no more than $500 for a return J redemption on Velocity, SYD/LHR.

From your list, Virgin (2), Etihad (4) and Qatar (7, possibly) do not charge fuel surcharges on award tickets. All of the rest do. The magnitude of the total surcharges when added with the fuel are about right in the rest of your list (not sure about Cathay, but I'll naively assume it correct), though often it's more is there YQ or not rather than how much it is (particularly also when the costs will vary with rate of exchange).

Of course, if your list refers to the respective frequent flyer programmes, and not the airlines themselves, then for example, if you redeem a QF flight using AA miles, no fuel surcharge is applicable.

For whatever it is worth, the highest band APD (for all flights from 1 April 2015) is now GBP 142 for non-Economy bookings and GBP 71 for Economy. Converted at the approximate rate of exchange as of now, that means for a return booking, you're still looking at a minimum of $280 for a Business redemption (since you will be departing the UK once, on the trip home), then you still need to add $55 for the Australian departure tax and about $80 for the UK Passenger Service Charge.
 
My reading of the OP is that the numbers are award co-payments. Not just YQ. In fact those number would include all additional charges YQ, APD plus whatever. I also didn't read the OP as being about avoidance of particular surcharges more about which airline has the lowest award co-pay on any given route.
 
thanks Medhead and anat0l,
I was indeed talking about the "add-ons" which airlines choose to charge, not just YQ. But let's face it, they are just cost mitigation, dressed up as fuel "surcharges"
VA don't add much - ($380 sounds OK)
SQ (dummy run tonight( $1238)
CX (dummy run tonight - $612)

I don't know the other airlines and I'm asking AFF for member contributions.

Regards

D
 
Of course, if your list refers to the respective frequent flyer programmes, and not the airlines themselves, then for example, if you redeem a QF flight using AA miles, no fuel surcharge is applicable.
Agreed, but most of us earn local miles and are subject to local surcharges.
 
Since YQ goes up and down all the time any master list will probably go out of date rather quickly.

IMO every country should just copy Brazil and Philippines and banish YQ altogether.
 
FWIW American Airlines don't charge any fuel surcharges on AAdvantage bookings for travel on partner airlines, unless the partner is BA or IB. QF, MH, CX, JL, AB etc. are all partner airlines.

I also don't believe Alaska Airlines levies a fuel surcharge for partner airline bookings, except BA again. QF, DL, EK are all partners.
 
IMO every country should just copy Brazil and Philippines and banish YQ altogether.

Anyone know what the go is with the Philippines and fuel surcharges? It appears the Philippines banned them earlier this year, but QF is still charging it on award bookings to MNL.
 
Anyone know what the go is with the Philippines and fuel surcharges? It appears the Philippines banned them earlier this year, but QF is still charging it on award bookings to MNL.

No fuel surcharges for bookings FROM Manila. Also no fuel surcharges for round trip tickets originating in Manila.

Fuel surcharges apply as usual for tickets TO Manila.
 
My reading of the OP is that the numbers are award co-payments. Not just YQ. In fact those number would include all additional charges YQ, APD plus whatever. I also didn't read the OP as being about avoidance of particular surcharges more about which airline has the lowest award co-pay on any given route.

My reading was that since the name of the thread was YQ - Master Thread, the focus was more or less on fuel surcharges, not the entire co-pay in general.

This makes some sense as since everything else but YQ is pretty much set (by governments, airport authorities, etc.), fuel surcharges are up to the carrier and frequent flyer programme (i.e. whether they charge them on awards or not, and then how much).

There was an inherent ambiguity in whether the OP was referring to flying those respective airlines listed or redeeming through their respective FFPs. I guess since the OP said that they were the targets of transferring points to those programmes (I didn't know LH or QR were Australian partners), then the assumption should have been the latter, and further then it was a redemption on those respective carriers through their host programme (except for some exceptions like VA, which doesn't fly to LHR, so the nearest equivalent would be via AUH and onwards on EY).

I was indeed talking about the "add-ons" which airlines choose to charge, not just YQ. But let's face it, they are just cost mitigation, dressed up as fuel "surcharges"

There's not many other "add-ons" which carriers charge apart from YQ which are also not charges that must be paid to governments, airport authorities etc.. For example, carriers add on passenger service charges, noise mitigation charges, UK Air Passenger Duty (where applicable), poverty reduction contributions (where applicable), etc. to your co-pay, but (at least theoretically) these must be paid to authorities, not kept by the carrier, and the latter certainly doesn't set these levels. So if you really want to be insistent, they are a "cost mitigation", but not one necessarily completely borne by the carrier; this kind of insistence would assume the premise that an award ticket should be miles only with no cash to pay at all. The only true "cost mitigating" charges are fuel surcharges.

Anything else is not normally found in the fare itself and is charged as a separate fee. For example, credit card surcharges, ticketing fees, etc.

It is quite rare to find any frequent flyer programmes which offer award travel which is completely free of any co-pay, including government/airport authority/etc. fees and surcharges. The only exceptions which come to mind are SAS EuroBonus (I assume they still have this), and BA Executive Club Flight Saver Reward (the co-pay is fixed per redemption region level and not affected by the actual amount of surcharges).

VA don't add much - ($380 sounds OK)

For a return SYD/LHR booking via AUH, it is about $460 - $480 or so - the $380 only covers the inbound sector from LHR. That would be about the same co-pay whether you redeemed on the FFP of VA or EY, and irrespective of the combination of both of those carriers flown. That number is, of course, just the necessary government and airport etc. surcharges and fees - VA and EY do not pass on fuel surcharges on awards.

A good estimation (or pretty much dead on quote) of total surcharges can be obtained not only by dummy booking on the relevant FFPs' sites, but also through putting in the specific carriers and routing into ITA, then analysing the taxes, fees and surcharges at the end (for the carriers or FFPs which don't pass on YQ, just exclude the YQ or YR lines as applicable).
 
A good estimation (or pretty much dead on quote) of total surcharges can be obtained not only by dummy booking on the relevant FFPs' sites, but also through putting in the specific carriers and routing into ITA, then analysing the taxes, fees and surcharges at the end (for the carriers or FFPs which don't pass on YQ, just exclude the YQ or YR lines as applicable).
Thanks anat0l, that's what I want to do but for many FFPs, I can't get past the "points required" screen due to lack of any points in that program.
I was hoping other members could add to the thread. What is ITA?

D
 
With regard to the title, YQ is the only variable which the airlines can control
APD out of LHR, for example, is a fixed charge.
So the total "add-ons" vary, pretty much only by the YQ.

Maybe I should have called it "add ons - master thread" :)
 
Thanks anat0l, that's what I want to do but for many FFPs, I can't get past the "points required" screen due to lack of any points in that program.
I was hoping other members could add to the thread. What is ITA?

D

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A long time stolid tool for the frequent flyer.


But really, all you are doing is searching for the equivalent cash fare on sale for the award that you want, then getting a full breakdown of the fare at the end, then handpicking the taxes, fees and surcharges applicable. Of course you can do this already on some airline portals, but not all of them give you a full breakdown and not for all itineraries.
 
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Since YQ goes up and down all the time any master list will probably go out of date rather quickly.

IMO every country should just copy Brazil and Philippines and banish YQ altogether.
And credit card surcharges while you are at it....
 
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  1. Qantas $1000+

To LHR, this is a bit off the mark. Both EK and QF charge >$1500 AUD for J return to LHR . eg MEL-LHR return on QF9/10 is $1529.42. SQ on same route is $1205.17, of which $734.40 is carrier surcharges, or basically YQ.

Of course this is distorted somewhat by UK APD. If you eliminate that looking at lower taxing destinations in Europe (either by flying into LHR and out of an alternative airport, or just flying to/from somewhere outside UK) it can take a reasonable amount off, for flying out of ZRH, taxes are $305 less than out of LHR.
 
I think this thread would be a useful guide to the reasonably inexperienced points collector (I'd include myself) but would benefit from clear definitions.
In practice what a collector/redeemer wants to know is what the redemption is in points and copay. The Kangaroo is a reasonably well known route which could be kept up to date. Then people could reasearch and look at reducing outlay by using other carriers' miles, flying into continental Europe, transiting LHR etc

Could I suggest

QF x points + $y in J SYD-DXB-LHR rtn
VA a points + $b (or c points + $d) in J MEL-AUH-LHR rtn
SQ f points + $g in J SYD-SIN-LHR rtn
 
  1. Qantas $1500+
  2. Virgin $400
  3. Emirates $1500 +
  4. Etihad
  5. Singapore $1200+
  6. Malaysian $1000+
  7. Qatar
  8. Lufthansa
  9. Thai
  10. Cathay $600+
 
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