EK A380 flys over 5000 miles with an engine out

[markis10]

Canada's Transportation Safety Board says Emirates Airlines elected to fly an A380 more than 5,000 miles across the Atlantic, southern Europe and the Mediterranean to Kuwait on three engines after the number four engine flamed out about an hour after takeoff from JFK. The original destination was Dubai for Flight 202 on Oct 26. "The crew consulted with the company and decided to divert to Kuwait International Airport (OKBK) on the remaining three engines where an uneventful landing took place," the TSB reported. The engine quit when the aircraft was 200 nm ESE of St. John's, Newfoundland/Labrador.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/A380-Flies-5000-Miles-On-Three-Engines220951-1.html

 

[mannej]

Is it similar to BA and their jumbo between LAX and LHR?

 

[MrHyde]

If they made it as far as Kuwait, why not go a little bit more to Dubai itself??

 

[RooFlyer]

According to the Aviation Herald Incident: Emirates A388 over Atlantic on Oct 26th 2013, engine shut down in flight a pax quotes the 'crew' saying going to Kuwait was a matter of reach of the aircraft in its configuration. Doesn't sound all that reliable a source, but can't think of any other likely reason.

 

[harvyk]

They have 3 others, whats the problem?

(I'm sort of serious with that statement, an engine shutdown by itself is a pretty rare event, but to have all 4 shutdown is virtually unheard of, and in the only cases I can think of the problem was not with the engines)

 

[docjames]

I saw this some days ago on another site.

Huge arguments around carrying on with 3, safety, "what to do" with pax if landing somewhere near the failure etc.

In many ways i think this is similar to the BA "incident" although they didnt reach critical fuel but planned the divert to Kuwait much earlier than that.

I suspect a large part of the reasoning is around the "service recovery" for the pax (and airline) in Kuwait rather than Newfoundland etc. No doubt much easier to hop a 380 to Kuwait than Newfoundland to pick up "stranded" pax.

I'm guessing a big part of the decision will be around whether they knew the reason for the shutdown and the perceived​ risk of another engine "failing".

 

[harvyk]

Well rather that us guessing, let's ask someone who would know if it's safe enough...

 

[markis10]

Well rather that us guessing, let's ask someone who would know if it's safe enough...

You know someone who was part of the operating crew, anyone else would not have the complete facts at hand?

 

[serfty]

The additional drag of a dormant engine would be significant.

What's also significant is that KWI is 500miles less to travel from JFK than DXB.

I suspect fuel consumption ... (also perhaps AVgas is cheaper in Kuwait? )

Great Circle Mapper JFK-KWI/DXB

Distances
[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TH]From[/TH]
[TH]To[/TH]
[TH="colspan: 2"]Initial
Heading[/TH]
[TH]Distance[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W)[/TD]
[TD]KWI (29°13'36"N 47°58'47"E)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]47.9°[/TD]
[TD] (NE)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6352 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W)[/TD]
[TD]DXB (25°15'10"N 55°21'52"E)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]45.2°[/TD]
[TD] (NE)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6849 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[markis10]

They have 3 others, whats the problem?

(I'm sort of serious with that statement, an engine shutdown by itself is a pretty rare event, but to have all 4 shutdown is virtually unheard of, and in the only cases I can think of the problem was not with the engines)

It did not need 4 to fail to bring down Kalita Air's 747, which had two separate events on two engines, one one each side, let alone symmetrical! I find the fact that two fuel pumps were the cause of the issue to be troubling in itself, a fact that would not have been evident in flight I suspect.

 

[Buzzard]

I wonder if you could get some sort of refund because it was not a "full service" flight :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[Mal]

Does sound a bit suss. Final reports will be interesting.

 

[lovestotravel]

They have 3 others, whats the problem?

(I'm sort of serious with that statement, an engine shutdown by itself is a pretty rare event, but to have all 4 shutdown is virtually unheard of, and in the only cases I can think of the problem was not with the engines)

It's about risk.... Lose another engine and well that could be trouble

Also what caused the engine to shut down ? Could it spread to other engines

To me it sounds like EK just wanted to get the plane closer to "home soil"

 

[NM]

I suspect fuel consumption ... (also perhaps AVgas is cheaper in Kuwait? )

Of perhaps they think they may be able to get away with a 3-engine departure from KWI and then fly to DXB where they have the required maintenance facilities to repair/replace the failed engine???

 

[maninblack]

I assume (only an assumption) that their original calculations had them reaching DXB, they probably encountered weather or headwinds enroute, increased fuel burn, reached 'failsafe' and at some point had to divert to Kuwait.

 

[dairyfloss]

A colleague of mine was on this flight, traveling from JFK back home to BLR, via DXB. He told me that EK did not inform PAX on-board of there being any technical difficulty, or any need to divert from DXB until about 90 minutes prior to arrival into Kuwait. He was quite surprised (and a little upset) after I showed him this article that they didn't say anything - I guess to avoid panic. EK would certainly have known the plan, as another EK 388 had been arranged to take them on to DXB, and he thinks it was about 90 mins from the initial landing into Kuwait that they were back on their way to DXB - luggage and all. I think he might have even kept his connection to BLR... not sure about that, though. Handled pretty well, I guess - provided it was & can be agreed there was no risk of endangerment in continuing for so long with an engine out of service.

Cheers.

 

[markis10]

Telling passengers whats going on often caused more harm than good, coming back on QF2 from DXB we were not told about an issue until top of descent, the issue had been obvious to the technical crew just after departure. As a result we got a good rest, so I have no issues!

 

[trippin_the_rift]

If they told the pax early on - everyone would jump on the internet and spread the word....

 

[jb747]

I assume (only an assumption) that their original calculations had them reaching DXB, they probably encountered weather or headwinds enroute, increased fuel burn, reached 'failsafe' and at some point had to divert to Kuwait.

Not a chance. They would never have had the fuel to complete the journey. I'm quite surprised they got as far as they did, and would be very curious to know the landing fuel figure.

 

[gwynne]

Does each engine have its own fuel tank? If so, then one engine being out would reduce available fuel by a quarter.