Business Class Coast to Coast: Bigger is Better

[dk4]

There are already threads, posts and pics regarding both Virgin’s new A330s and 737s – so I thought I would present a brief report about the service differences between the two.

The best place to start is with a smile, and at Virgin the smiles start as you board and (for me) didn’t stop until I disembarked. Across their fleet, the FAs combine this effectively with eye contact to ensure that their non-verbal cues are consistently & genuinely warm and welcoming, which makes it very difficult to not enjoy your Virgin journey (even given the obvious pitfalls like In-Flight-Entertainment and no Scotch in the lounges).

But beyond the personalities and physical seats, there are some major differences between the business class service standards on an A330 and a B737.

What is evident to me, is that onboard the A330s the Virgin team are trying to meet the Regional Service Standards of any of Asia’s finest, while on the B737s they are out to deliver a competitive domestic business class experience. And as it seemed that for a few FAs onboard the A330, English sounded like their second language - it seems Virgin is getting closer to launching some sort of assault into Asia with its A330s.

From hot towels to printed menus, glass sizes to champagne, salt and pepper shakers to menu choice, pillows & blankets to Bulgari amenity kits, suit bags to headphones - the A330 experience offers a whole lot more class than the alternative B737 coast to coast in business class.

So, let me briefly compare -

 

[dk4]

ON THE GROUND

Let’s face it, priority boarding (at your convenience) is a service standard at Virgin, you can simply expect it to happen, nothing more to say here, other than that in Perth, they are now using an aerobridge, at door 2L, for A330 arrivals and departures.

Here’s a look at both aircraft interiors from the vantage of 1A - other AFFers have already posted fairly clear reports about the business class seat on both aircraft, so no sweeping shots necessary from me. (See below - the B737 with better elbow room & A330 with better leg room.)

A330

B737

A330

B737 - centre armrest

For A330 pre-departure drinks I was offered water, juice or champagne (yes champagne, not merely sparkling wine) and on the B737 water or a “mocktail”.

Amenities on the A330 consisted of blanket, pillow, Bulgari amenity kit & water bottle, and on the B737 it was inflatable pillow & a comfort pack including blanket.

A330 - amenities on the seat

B737 - comfort in a bag

Individual channel based in-flight entertainment was available on the A330, including nose cam until the wheels were retracted after take off. On the B737 personal digEplayers were delivered after the meal service had finished.

A330 - front bulkhead screens

B737 - digEplayer

A330 - wheelcam

 

[dk4]

IN THE AIR

The A330 service began with hot towels, which were missing on my B737 flight. Followed with warmed nuts (A330) and non-warmed nuts (B737) served in a small bowl, together with a drink from the bar.

B737 - drinks & cold nuts

A330 drinks & warm nuts - featuring their signature coughtail

A330 - menu

The entrée was served (plated along side the dessert on the B737) with a choice of two options on the A330, but soup was the only entree on the B737. Bread rolls were served from a bread basket. (Note the way the salt & pepper, butter and dipping condiments are served in a more elegant format on the A330.)

B737 - entree

A330 - entree


The main meal (served with a side salad on the A330) was next, again with a choice of three options available from the menu on the A330 but the B737 was a one size fits all Sheppard’s Pie.

B737 - mains

A330 - mains with side salad

Dessert was already on the plate for the B737 service, but a choice of cheeses or meringue was on offer on the A330. I enjoyed a Cointreau on the A330, which wasn’t available on the B737. Hot drinks were also served on both flights.

A330 - dessert with Cointreau

The team on the A330 saw that my glass (including water) was never empty for less than 5 minutes before a refill was offered, where as the same could not be said for the B737 service, although I was address by name without prompting when using the toilet on the B737 (nice touch!). The service on the B737 also seemed more rushed that the relaxed approach taken (to fit my eating style) on the A330.

Later on the B737 an ice-cream sandwich was served. The A330 FA proffered (without prompting) additional items from the main cabin menu, should I wish them, and on the B737 I asked for and received an extra snack.

B737 - ice cream sandwich, mid flight

In the business toilets on the A330 there were additional amenities available, which were not present in the forward toilet on the B737.

A330 - toilet ammenities

 

[dk4]

OVERALL

I am not a fan of leather seats - and on both of Virgin’s aircraft types, they do seem a little hard, and I also missed having a foot rest on the B737. The tray table sat way too low on the A330, almost balancing on top of my thighs. It’s already been discussed elsewhere on AFF, but the in-flight entertainment was not top notch on either aircraft.

But let me say that with services from SYD at 3 times daily, Virgin does deliver a superior international style standard as more than a “once a day gimmick”. So for this reason (plus the Side Salad & Cointreau), I would rank them as having the best premium offer for a domestic airline in Australia: Marking Qantas as decidedly second rate, for Business Class on this transcontinental route.

And observing that on any given flight, at least a quarter of the bags going into Virgin’s business class overhead bins were carrying Qantas Platinum bag tags, seems that others agree.

 

[samiam]

What a fantastic comparison - thankyou very much!

 

[serfty]

Ta for that; I'm doing the trip via SYD in a week or so - looking forward to it.

Looks like row 1's OK for 6' or less. (http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ia-velocity/a330-seat-pitch-j-best-34899.html)

 

[dk4]

Thanks for the comments.


Couple of tips for A330 seating –

in row 1, the centre two seats have a (fractionally) larger arm rest between them, than the window side pairs.

in row 2, the centre seat (2E) appears to be permanently blocked from allocation; so if you want aisle access without a neighbour + leg & elbow room (but no view)…

Have to say, my first flight was an odd experience, after so many PER flights with Qantas, and simply being use to the way Qantas does things, it felt decidedly odd sitting on a Virgin A330 (And getting use to their service). But I soon settled into the swing of things, and the staff were very eager to please, which was nice (not that I can generally fault QF’s J FAs, but there was a difference in energy and enthusiasm on Virgin).

Other tip is that they seem to use the standard 3 FAs up front, one serving each aisle, with the CS in the galley doing prep, so once you know who “your” aisle’s FA is - schmooze and the world’s your oyster. (Ask for a digEplayer for AVOD - I think I saw someone do that, ask for items from the main cabin menu, + I don’t think I have stepped off a PER flight quiet so boozed in the years since QF enhanced Cointreau off their domestic J bar service. :shock

 

[Noob]

Great job mate, a really good read.

I think the nice thing about the 737 is that is does feel more private/intimate. Obviously the limitation of the 737 is the available space in comparison to the a330-200.

I don't see why the Grown amenities can't be in the Business class lavatory on the 737?

 

[spudseamus]

very informative TR well done !

 

[MarkD]

So did they block off the j cabin in the 737 via the little rope thingy? or was it still open slather for the front dunny, with queuing in the j cabin by the shoeless unkept, like it is with "PE"
good comparison btw, interesting to know the differences in a product that one would assume to be the same

 

[dk4]

Thanks again for the comments.

Regarding the toilets - there is a "location/cabin usage announcement" as part of the welcome onboard PA, and yes the rope was used during cruise (to segregate the two cabins).

There was a loud crashing noise at one point during the flight, followed shortly thereafter by a customer passing through to the forward galley. (I assume the noise was the rope dropping and hitting the side of the barrier, as the customer detached it.) Within a few moments said customer had been turned around and was heading back down the aisle.

The CS spent most of the flight in the forward cabin or galley. (Even when it was crew meal time, I only saw 3 white boxes make their way down to the rear of the aeroplane.) So I imagine should anyone else have tried to break the barrier, they too would have been swiftly turned around: With only a possible 8 in the front business cabin, and the CS appearing to have memorised each customer's name, I doubt anyone would have been able to pass by unchallenged.

 

[MarkD]

Well that's good to hear. I'm not a toilet obsessed, in fact it's not the toilet that bothers me as I rarely use it, it's the fact that if I happen to be up in that cabin then I have paid for it for the quiet, yet on pe the people from up back congregated in the front cabin, let their kids run amok etc, it appears with the full j product they are doing the right thing which is great

 

[Noob]

There was a loud crashing noise at one point during the flight, followed shortly thereafter by a customer passing through to the forward galley. (I assume the noise was the rope dropping and hitting the side of the barrier, as the customer detached it.) Within a few moments said customer had been turned around and was heading back down the aisle.

I don't get how someone would think the rope wasn't there for a reason

 

[jpk]

Thanks this is very helpful - I had no idea there was such a difference in the service levels on the two aircraft. I wonder if this is a galley or storage problem?

 

[Noob]

Thanks this is very helpful - I had no idea there was such a difference in the service levels on the two aircraft. I wonder if this is a galley or storage problem?

The 737-800 is a much smaller plane compared to the A330-200, the A330 seats almost double the passengers. Hence, the galley is much smaller and there is much less storage.

But each has its benefits, the 737 is more intimate and personal.

 

[Jack Melon]

OVERALL

I am not a fan of leather seats - and on both of Virgin’s aircraft types, they do seem a little hard, and I also missed having a foot rest on the B737. The tray table sat way too low on the A330, almost balancing on top of my thighs. It’s already been discussed elsewhere on AFF, but the in-flight entertainment was not top notch on either aircraft.

But let me say that with services from SYD at 3 times daily, Virgin does deliver a superior international style standard as more than a “once a day gimmick”. So for this reason (plus the Side Salad & Cointreau), I would rank them as having the best premium offer for a domestic airline in Australia: Marking Qantas as decidedly second rate, for Business Class on this transcontinental route.

And observing that on any given flight, at least a quarter of the bags going into Virgin’s business class overhead bins were carrying Qantas Platinum bag tags, seems that others agree.

FYIO - The 2 A330's currently in service will have the state of the art "Red" version 2 IFE fitted in next year, and the fresh dilivered A330's will have it installed. As for the 737's the new IFE has been half announced, with internet access, straming stuff to your personal device. Phase 2 is unknown, but has been rumoured to be the red system as well. There will be new business class and economy class seats on the A330's next year when they get refurbished with the new IFE.

 

[serfty]

It was the same cost for my points+$ redemptions to go MEL to/from PER via SYD in order to use the 332 service rather than direct. I have the time to spare next week, so why not.

 

[dk4]

Thanks this is very helpful - I had no idea there was such a difference in the service levels on the two aircraft.

Virgin's 737 service standards are more similar to Qantas domestic... But their C2C A330 service levels IMO make them the best commerical business class in Australia. As Lara might say, if you want the best and your not on a Virgin Coast2Coast A330, then "where the bloody hell are you?"

Consider the following shots detailing QF transcon widebody service standards.

QF Drinks

Post Take-off - nuts from a bag - classy! (VAA C2C A330 = warm, spiced mixed nuts in a bowl)
Pre Take-off - juice or water. (VAA C2C A330 = + French Champagne option)

QF Entree

Take it or leave it, no choice (VAA C2C A330 = 2 entree options)
Cold bread (VAA C2C = warm bakery options, butter served from a small dish, salt & pepper in shackers...etc)

QF Mains

No side salad (VAA C2C mains with side salad (dressing to the side in a small dish or served on top - your choice), + separate printed menus for wine & food)
QF drinks refills are atrocious - see the empty glasses, FAs don't pay attention if you "stray from their service routine" i.e. I didn't want to drink wine with the pictured meal (VAA C2C A330 = my glass [on flights when "cabin lights were on"] refilled most-often without me having to ask, VAA FAs adapt to my style, they don't force me to comply with theirs).


QF Dessert

My dessert looks sad without a Cointreau next to it.

QF Chocolates

Normally mini-Toblerone, but this time of year a few extra chocolates - nice. (VAA C2C A330, doesn't serve chocolates with the meal...BUT remember - anything from the main cabin menu is yours, at anytime, just for the asking and complimentary. On most of my flights that meant that asking for chocolate delivered M&Ms in a bowl, however on one occasion I was served Lindt chocolate bars (possibly from the crew meals?) and another time a white chocolate and Cranberry cookie accompanied the M&Ms “just in case”.)


QF Toilets

No additional amenities in the loos these days (even the vase is sadly empty). (VAA C2C A330 = + "Grown" lotions)

The attention to service detail on VA's C2C A330s, is simply fantastic. And I love the complimentary jacket bag, delivered at your convenience by the FA (on descent or once landed) QF returns jackets when it suits the FAs.


VAAs C2C A330 service can be flexible, and the FAs take personal delight in deviating from routine for you. On QF, you know that while the FAs will eventually do it for you (if you know to ask) your punishment will be no eye contact or thank you when you disembark.

 

[Moopere]

It was the same cost for my points+$ redemptions to go MEL to/from PER via SYD in order to use the 332 service rather than direct. I have the time to spare next week, so why not.

Mmm. Yes, I had the same thought but my 330 flight got cancelled ... or so they told me and I was rebooked on a direct 737-800... however, I got to the airport early only to see my original 330 flight number boarding ... so they must have been overbooked and bumped me to the direct flight. Not happy about that at all.

This was my first flight in J on the refit 737-800, my impression:

- Priority everything works really well, the staff are proactive and it works. Pax turned back from the loo and the overhead lockers in J ... the buggers try it on too, crashing through the chain/rope dividing the cabins.
- Staff great. Ground and air staff really put in a big effort. Couldn't fault them.
- J on the 737 is a bit of a joke. The purple plastic see through divider is not sufficient to provide the feeling of a J cabin. You just feel like you're flying at the front of a bus. Seats barely recline, certainly little more, maybe no more than Y seating. Legroom however is really good and comfort level of the cushioning is ok
- These planes are noisy! Youch. I was surprised, and disappointed, really really loud once you get up in the air.
- Perhaps they are noisier because they are faster? PER-MEL in 3hrs 10 minutes.
- Wine selection is white or red ... yep, no idea what they were and there are no choices. My FA had come off a 330 and was herself surprised at the lack of choice.

Overall impression:

Hard product: PE level with wider seats
Soft product: Excellent and is the only reason I'll fly J with DJ again.

I'm sure the 330 experience is much better.

Full asking price of J PER-MEL return is about 2999$, I won't ever pay that for the 737 experience. Rewards price was 430$ + 13,800 points and was a good deal at that price.

 

[skywalkerLAX]

Full asking price of J PER-MEL return is about 2999$, I won't ever pay that for the 737 experience. Rewards price was 430$ + 13,800 points and was a good deal at that price.

That is a SICK going rate for such a route and totally independent from the product! I'm used to UA asking ridiculous prices for domestic first intra U.S. but even a transcon is nowhere near that rate.