Are Virgin succeeding with their pledge to keep LCC as well as full service?

[Deleted member 29185]

On reading the latest Jetstar Friday Frenzy fare offer ($13 for a lot of routes including OOL-SYD), I got to wondering if Virgin has lost sight of their committment to keeping LCC as well as offering full service.

The cheapest Happy Hour fare OOL-SYD with DJ in recent times that I can remember is about $60 or so. Even the old $49 fares that used to creep in have disappeared. Seems to me, that the Happy Hour fares are Full Service Happy Hour prices but with an LCC offering. DJ full service is certainly still finding its feet on very wobbly legs with plenty of examples of failures so are they perhaps risking losing their LCC base?

I guess it boils down to one thing.....if the planes are flying full, why discount!

What do others think?

 

[LiamR]

I agree with the OP. I know Virgin say thy will remain competitive in all areas of the market, but I have noticed an increase in fares, epically out of OOL. The $65 OOL/MEL sale at the start of the year is the cheapest I've seen in a while. All of the $50-$60 OOL-SYD fares however have dried up.

I doubt we will ever see Virgin be as cheap as Jetstar, but they don't really have to be anymore.

 

[eastwest101]

I think that $13 or $49 fares from OOL-SYD are not sustainable for either business in the long term, unless fuel prices drop. But competition is a good thing.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I think that $13 or $49 fares from OOL-SYD are not sustainable for either business in the long term, unless fuel prices drop. But competition is a good thing.

They're not meant to be sustainable. They're promos to keep people interested. Like one local radio station here is Gold 92.5 FM. They occasionally have a 92.5c/L fuel promo......it's not sustainable, it's all marketing. All the airlines seem to do it, but DJ seem very intent to just compete with Qantas and usually their Happy Hour fares are no great bargain. $13 OOL-SYD with JQ in my books is a bargain and I can tell you, they're very much starting to pique my interest again since Virgin isn't.

For me Virgin is ahead with:

1. The lounge
2. Family pooling
3. Fly ahead

That's it I'm afraid. With the difference in airfares with this latest JQ sale ($66 each way), I can buy a lot more coffees and toasted sandwiches than I require.

 

[pauly7]

With Tiger MIA both Virgin & Jetstar are breathing a sigh of relief and making hay while the sun shines.

Who can blame them! Why leave all the $ to Qantas?

 

[oz_mark]

What do others think?

At the bottom end (Saver fares), they are still delivering an LCC services, but charging more premium fares.

 

[lovestotravel]

All the recent flights I have been on the Economy cabin is close to capacity while J is pretty empty.

Prices have been rising over the past few months, and I suspect lots of these bookings were made prior to the higher prices, I am sure VA know what they are doing...........

 

[Deleted member 29185]

At the bottom end (Saver fares), they are still delivering an LCC services, but charging more premium fares.

This is my take on it as well.

Please don't take the OP the wrong way..... it really is not meant as a DJ whinge (like many of my recent posts have been). I can see that J does need competition domestically. when you look at the price QF were charging for some Dom J sectors compared with long haul J prices, it did show competition was needed. Good if DJ can help there and provide that service. But I also read here on AFF recently, someone stating Oz cannot handle any more than 2 carriers. Why? Don't we already have 3.5? (QF, DJ, JQ, TT). As someone has said, the economy cabins of DJ are chockers (and I've noticed this also), so perhaps DJ should forget LCC and concentrate on getting their full service, service happening consistantly. Hopefully then, TT will have their sh#t sorted and start taking on JQ for the LCC market, but can Oz handle 4 domestic carriers?

 

[maninblack]

but can Oz handle 4 domestic carriers?

At some point if the $A drops and fuel prices go up significantly then the faecal matter will hit the fan and it will all go pear shaped yet again.

 

[lovestotravel]

swanning_it - Agree totally!

While we have 4 carriers they are attracting different market segments and there is overlap!

QF - Corporate still fly QF and will continue to do so, although they are losing lots of large accounts over time and many smaller ones. Older people stick with them because of their loyalty to the Aussie.....

VA - The alternative to Qantas, but they are still stuck in LCC mode in Economy but charge the same as QF.. If they can get away with it great, but I think they could blow JQ out of the water and further eat into QF's market share but giving food on all flights, and if needed, increasing the price by $5 to cover this. Their J class is nice, but the cool novelty factor is wearing off for me and once i regain Platinum I'll head back to Qantas for flights in either Y or J... I do prefer a more full service airline and QF delivers that

JQ - People book QF and end up on here by accident, people that won't fly TT but don't want to pay more for QF/VA service

TT - People who wouldn't ever fly or would normally catch a bus/train.

 

[UP4014]

TT - People who wouldn't ever fly or would normally catch a bus/train.

Hey, steady on with the train comments. :mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

[Noob]

Virgin Australia never 'pledged' to keep "LCC as well as Full Service" - However, it has been said on numerous occasions that they wish to remain competitive in the leisure market.

"We're going to be more competitive in the leisure market than we've ever been,"
Read more: Rebranded Virgin prepares for a tough battle | News.com.au

Interpretation and fact are very different things.

 

[yohy?!]

In addition to competing In J the whole rebranding effort at VA has probably been aiming to lift the brand out of the LCC space once and for all, theres no benefit in them fighting it out for the bottom...best to leave that to JQ and TT.

Seems like the right long term strategy to me, JQs brand and image in the market only seems to be heading downwards - they will probably never be able to pull themselves up into the same space DJ has.

Moreover a lot of former JQ customers are probably rethinking how much that $10/$20/$30 saving was worth it in the end if they had a poor experience.

For me I will happily use 3K and JQ Hong Kong when they launch but really only when I can get a steal of a deal either in a sale or price matching to TT. I know exactly what I'm in for though

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Virgin Australia never 'pledged' to keep "LCC as well as Full Service" - However, it has been said on numerous occasions that they wish to remain competitive in the leisure market.

Excellent point......but semantics in all respects. For the vast community of FFers, the "leisure" market is LCC. I can't recall an airline stating they are a LCC as a matter of pride. Let's take Easy Jet as an example. One of the worlds top LCC carriers, yet nowhere can I find Easy Jet describe themselves as a LCC. I found them state they are Europes leading airline, servicing over 300 million people with values of safety, pioneering, passion and teamwork.........but nothing about LCC.

Noob, as I said, I'm not making judgements, just observations. I observe DJ are NOT remaining competitive in the "leisure" market. JQ and TT are sh#tting all over them at the moment (this takes nothing away from DJs advancements in the business/full service market.......enough AFFers have commented about their achievements/failures there).

JQs brand and image in the market only seems to be heading downwards - they will probably never be able to pull themselves up into the same space DJ has.

Eh? Come again? Since when did JQ want to be anything but an LCC carrier? I think the whole concept was QF could compete best with the new LCC market players (ie Virgin) by creating a whole new LCC airline. Why would they want to compete with themselves?

Moreover a lot of former JQ customers are probably rethinking how much that $10/$20/$30 saving was worth it in the end if they had a poor experience.

And similarly, those DJ customers are rethinking how much that $100/$200/$300 premium was worth it in the end if they had a poor experience.

Let's not play the pot calling the kettle black routine here. At least most JQ customers know what the expectation may be. Virgin is actively putting it out there that their experience is the magic returned..........yeah right, the magic would have been selling Y or PE as J and getting away with it..........pity no one mentioned the illusion to the mugs paying for it!

 

[yohy?!]

Eh? Come again? Since when did JQ want to be anything but an LCC carrier? I think the whole concept was QF could compete best with the new LCC market players (ie Virgin) by creating a whole new LCC airline. Why would they want to compete with themselves?

I think you may have missed the whole killing QF in favor of JQ game that is being played out at present... the whole JQ strategy is well and truly in the past and been outflanked by the entry of TT anyway.

And similarly, those DJ customers are rethinking how much that $100/$200/$300 premium was worth it in the end if they had a poor experience.

Let's not play the pot calling the kettle black routine here. At least most JQ customers know what the expectation may be. Virgin is actively putting it out there that their experience is the magic returned..........yeah right, the magic would have been selling Y or PE as J and getting away with it..........pity no one mentioned the illusion to the mugs paying for it!

dissatisfied customers heading down market? Doubtful, they will just head back to QF who are in a lot of cases having to underprice JQ.

I don't see the transitional issues with PE colored seats in place of J ones as being any different to a QF 734 in place of an international config. Everyone plays the same marketing game whether it's 'lie-flat' mark I sky beds or 'business' class on JQ or 'business' on previously PE config plane

 

[misstam]

I agree with the OP. I know Virgin say thy will remain competitive in all areas of the market, but I have noticed an increase in fares, epically out of OOL. The $65 OOL/MEL sale at the start of the year is the cheapest I've seen in a while. All of the $50-$60 OOL-SYD fares however have dried up.

I doubt we will ever see Virgin be as cheap as Jetstar, but they don't really have to be anymore.

I guess these days I don't really see Virgin competing with Jetstar so much as looking to fill the gap between coughpy LCC & full service Qantas.

Previously Qantas would always be first choice when I'm booking flights for touring productions, but now I'd go with either DJ or QF based on price, routing & departure/arrival times to fit in with scheduling. It would be rare for JQ to get a look in - it's not worth the gamble or client unhappiness!

Disappointing/surprising for Virgin though, is that sometimes their cheapest fares are $100+ more than Qantas' for the same route. And not just for a last-minute flight - often I'm watching DJ/QF fares from a fair way out to weigh up comparisons. On the plus side, it's good to have more choice for once QF dominated destinations like Emerald.

I agree with swanning_it, the happy hour fares aren't really cooking my turkey lately.

 

[markis10]

I agree with other posts about DJ not wanting to service the LCC market but be competitive across "the market", comparisons are always hard and only relevant when you want to travel, currently for me a trip SE QLD to MEL in 4 weeks sees JQ at $50 each way being less than half QF/ DJ, but I will fly DJ as its cheaper to use points!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

JQ being less than half QF/ DJ, but I will fly DJ as its cheaper to use points!

And if you had no points? (I'm just curious.....and nosey)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

dissatisfied customers heading down market? Doubtful, they will just head back to QF who are in a lot of cases having to underprice JQ.

I don't see the transitional issues with PE colored seats in place of J ones as being any different to a QF 734 in place of an international config. Everyone plays the same marketing game whether it's 'lie-flat' mark I sky beds or 'business' class on JQ or 'business' on previously PE config plane

To be fair, I didn't suggest where the dissatisfied customers would go......simply that there is plenty of evidence here on AFF to indicate there are many DJ flexi and J customers who unlike you, are not satisfied getting a lesser product then what they've purchased, regardless of whether or not the discrepancies are "transitional".

Me? I'm more attuned to where the price of the saver fares are heading, over whether or not the J product is up to scratch, but those J flyers that DJ are so desperately trying to attract, are probably more important in DJs estimation.

 

[MarkD]

I find it amusing that the same people that are saying "I wont fly Jetstar because they are unreliable" are knocking tiger and refusing them as well. Whats their Omn time performance like since they started flying again? Piss all over everybody else I believe.
So if those same people that were concerned about being there on time were true to their words, they would all be on tiger

Agree with swanning_it and others though re pricing, its not a bad lurk, if you can charge full service fares, and deliver LCC service. Shareholders would be happy with that Passengers, not so much