Loyalty up for grabs.

[Stevo.1702]

I hope I have asked this question in the correct area?

At 22 I consider myself new 'frequent flyer' and I expect to be one for several decades to come through personal travel and work (God knows what the retirement age will be when I'm at the point of considering it!). I am hoping for advice from the more seasoned flyers regarding where my loyalty is best invested. Over the last year I have had a good taste of both Virgin Aus and Qantas.

I fly domestic predominantly (Y) and internationally roughly twice a year (Y+ or J). Work books all business travel (Y) through QBT but a surprising number of flights booked are VA. I am kind of locked in to my current employer for the next 15 years and I don't imagine ever being based away from Aus.

I appreciate many things can change overtime e.g. velocity may eventually offer lifetime status, benefits of status for both programs change, or an airline may even go bust :shock:.

Where should I make my first stop when booking flights - qantas.com or virginaustralia.com??

 

[Mattg]

Interesting question. I am personally aligned with QF and am happy to continue being loyalty to Qantas and oneworld for the forseeable future. However, I travel overseas a fair bit. Internationally, Qantas has a much stronger/larger network of partners through oneworld (and various other partnerships, e.g. with Emirates) whereas Virgin has only a select few. For me, the ability to earn and redeem points on a much larger network of partners is a huge positive for QF. I am also sticking with Qantas for the time being in order to save enough points for a oneworld award - for 280,000 QF points, you can travel around the world in Business class. I think that's a pretty good deal.

However... for a predominantly domestic flyer, Velocity has its advantages. Fewer VA points are required for upgrades and flight redemptions. If you fly enough to get Platinum status, (and the threshold for reaching that is also lower than with QF) you also get 4 free Platinum upgrades and other benefits like complimentary hotel elite status. So, if the international network of partners is not a consideration, then VA is probably the better program of the two. I would also point out that VA doesn't charge fuel surcharges on frequent flyer redemptions, so that's a plus.

This is ignoring the quality of either airline - I'm only looking at the frequent flyer programs.

What do you want to use the points for? Flying domestically, flying internationally, upgrading or something else?

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi Stevo.1702

Good question, and I appreciate the answer is in respect of your travel, not mine, so need more info, such as what are your intended uses for points? Where do you fly to internationally?

With info supplied, I'd say QF, merely because of greater reach of international partners.

ps. I think you are after 'advice' not 'advise'.

 

[Stevo.1702]

what are your intended uses for points? Where do you fly to internationally?

At the moment I imagine burning points on the trips/flights that I cannot afford to purchase - international F or J award or upgrades. At the moment I see my saving goal targeted towards a RTW J ticket for 2. I'm more than comfortable to sit down the back domestically. I would probably only upgrade on East/West red-eye flights.

International is primarily leisure so I tend to go wherever takes my fancy but I can imagine the US being a reoccurring destination for work in the future.

And spelling mistake fixed - thanks.

 

[Mattg]

At the moment I imagine burning points on the trips/flights that I cannot afford to purchase - international F or J award or upgrades. At the moment I see my saving goal targeted towards a RTW J ticket for 2. I'm more than comfortable to sit down the back domestically. I would probably only upgrade on East/West red-eye flights.

International is primarily leisure so I tend to go wherever takes my fancy but I can imagine the US being a reoccurring destination for work in the future.

And spelling mistake fixed - thanks.

That changes things a bit in my opinion. As I said before, Qantas has a larger network of international partners and the round-the-world awards, so if you mainly want to redeem points for international J/F flights, then perhaps that's the better program.

Having said that, Virgin award availability on its limited long-haul network (to the USA and UAE) is traditionally better than Qantas and there are much lower taxes that need to be paid in addition to the points (due to no fuel surcharges).

I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I think you mean business up for grabs - loyalty is something that will come later once you have direction in your frequent flyer ambitions.

To know which program is best for you we need to understand more about you. How many flights do you take domestically each year? Is this constant? What status levels do you currently hold with either airline? How much are you spending on credit cards each year and do you see your cc spend increasing or decreasing? Do you have disposable cash to put towards that biz class ticket? Does your partner fly much or spend a lot on credit card? Will you at any point have your own business in the next few years? Are you carrying any bad debt? These are the types of questions we need answers so that we have a helicopter view of your life and projected position in the years to come. From this we can fundamentally break it down and find the best possible FF program for you.

It's never as simple as QF or VA unless you either don't care about maximising your return/rewards - or you're a fanboy who has already decided

 

[RB]

I would be very surprised if things did not change in your life during the time frames you have mentioned-15yrs with same employer & several decades of travel

 

[RooFlyer]

If the USA is going to be a repeated destination, then coupled with other factors, I think it has to be QF. The AA tie up and of course network is very strong, and unlike some other oneWorld partners, you earn QFF very well on AA.

Getting an award seat (let alone 2 in J) when you want it is always a cough shoot, so focus on the earn part (and Status achievement) for now.

 

[codash1099]

IMHO, loyalty is dead. It has slowly but surely killed off by being turned into a one way street.

Now it all comes down to self interest. Regrettably, for many of us, we now feel locked in to one or other of the the airlines (in this case). I'm heavily invested in Qantas, which means that's where my self interest lies. In other words, once you are on the merry-go-round, it can be hard to get off.

 

[amaroo]

IMO the only thing VA has over QFF - family pooling ... achieving high status would be very easy and super-cheap!

 

[BillytheFIsh]

I think unless you really need to put all your eggs in one basket, then in terms of earning/burning points, I would try to maintain a healthy balance in both. Given you evidently fly a lot and seem to have decent income prospects, with the credit card bonuses around, it's easy enough to keep a couple of hundred thousand points in both which gives you flexibility when looking at redemptions.

For status, given you are already QF WP, I would stick with QF to make some headway to LTG.

For what it's worth, because I don't fly regularly for work/aren't really that interested in status given I try to fly everywhere on J/F awards, I find myself preferring VA for points earn/burn and customer service (I travel with a toddler/pram a lot and they seem to deal with that better).

 

[dajop]

On the points earn, one neat thing about VA is shorter domestic flights tend to earn more for equivalent status. So, VA WP spending $250 MEL-SYD ... gets 2500 pts, whilst a QF WP will get 1200 pts.

 

[harvyk]

but a surprising number of flights booked are VA. I am kind of locked in to my current employer for the next 15 years and I don't imagine ever being based away from Aus.

I think you have answered your own question there. Of course nothing says you can't have both and credit to both as required, esp as right now both are free to join.

My general rule with loyalty programs is they need to fit into your current lifestyle and choices. If you make even a single change from the ordinary then it is no longer "free", you are simply paying for perks in a round-a-bout way.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Do you have a choice of airlines, or is it determined by work policy? If you don't have choice, then you should probably join both and salvage whatever you can from them. If you have a choice, it will depends on how much travel you will actually do, the tickets booked, and what you value out of the systems.

 

[johnd]

To me there are three main considerations in which FF group to join up with:
1 - who you fly with (or are made to fly with).
2 - where you live and which airlines frequent your most used airport/s.
3 - (less important) the benefits of the scheme.

I am with both Qantas (currently gold) and Velocity (platinum). I live in Adelaide. My last employer would always choose the cheapest flights (other than Tiger Air). Current employer with clients in NZ. Some of my colleagues are with Air NZ and boast about how easy it is to use their Airpoints system for flight booking at any time. Also they get at the gate upgrades where I am overlooked.
As for the benefits - the main benefit to me is getting a comfortable and quiet seat in a lounge where you can get a drink and a bite to eat and this is becoming harder and harder all the time. Food is getting worse and if traveling with others getting a seat together is almost impossible at the times I am in the lounges.
My family benefit from the flights I can book and send them around the country when they want to travel, but they have to be very flexible with when and who they travel with to get this bonus.
Personally for me, my number one bonus was purchasing noise cancelling headphones with my points at my first opportunity.

 

[ozmuzz]

Qantas lost the plot with Emirates - no status credits unless a QF flight number. However, I do like to keep a foot in both camps as well.

 

[DaveB]

I am fortunately able to comfortably spread my points across the major airlines and able to chose an airline purely on the basis of availability and reduced travel time. Accordingly, my family has flown on around a dozen or so different airlines in recent years.
If looking to stretch your points using only on upgrades, QF would be my pick. If main issue is looking to fly J/F OS on points alone, VA wins hands down for availability spread across SQ, EY, VA, and DL.
By far the biggest pain with QF is J/F availability. Only time I have used QF points for OS J/F flights has been Royal Jordanian bookings (Cairo and Amman connections via Dubai) and Euro flights on BA & Iberia where J quality is at best questionable providing overall poor value if points conscious. Despite always looking, I have rarely been able to get international award seats J ex-Sydney and have limited my OS bookings to a Y in CX to Europe (my mother flying with a friend at short notice) and on EJ to Christchurch.
VA/SQ/DL points have enabled me to book around 20 return J/F flights the past 18 months to Europe, US and Asia on SQ/MI, VA, EY and even DL where three booked a month out to fly in J to SFO returning LAS.

 

[Buzzard]

Currently I am QF Gold and +1 is VA Gold.

It appears to me (YMMV) that VA treat +1 better than QF do me.
With VA, no issues with fly ahead, even been asked if we would like an earlier flight.
On arrival access for Gold with VA, not with QF.
VA loundes are not as packed (that might indicate something)
J redemptions easier & less expensive on VA
Family pooling certainly makes it easier to gain or retain status.
Up in the air QF certainly wins IMHO.

Since QF reduced SC earn from ADL most of my flying now has switched to VA.

 

[Lonely Flyer]

From my point of view (mostly doing BNE-LAX) VA wins purely on the basis of ++