General EV Discussion

[Cruiser Elite]

As the growth of Electric Vehicles sales increase in Australia I think a General Discussion thread might be warranted.

FWIW I have had an EV on order since early March 2021 after I first saw it appear in an international market. It will finally be sold in Australia soon - latest advice is I might see it before XMAS - or I may not - but it is not what I would call budget - I will post back post delivery.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

As noted by cove in another thread range is the primary query for ALL EV purchasers. This is nothing new to me or our organization.

In 1999 I imported the first ever shipment of Electric Bicycles to Australia. Since day 1 the first question ever asked by prospective purchasers is 'What is the range?' or 'How far can I travel on a single charge?'

These questions are just totally mirrored in the EV industry. In the vast majority of cases since day 1 with electric bicycles is that riders travel nowhere near the distance each day that they think they will. Indeed many many customers seek and do indeed buy electric bicycles with battery capacity that well and truly exceeds their requirements. And you should see the looks on their faces when they discover replacement cost of their over specked battery.

Given I have not owned, driven or been involved with ownership or operation of an EV as yet then I cannot comment whether or not EV buyers / owners are in the same boat. Given my motor vehicle usage pattern - 12,000km in 14mths with a new Lexus NX350) - extended range in an EV not high on my list of priorities - but time will tell with actual experience.

 

[exceladdict]

Have been loaned an EV from a family member for the next few weeks. The key thing for me isn't just range but a reliable way to estimate range. For example, it used under 10% to get to work yesterday but then 15% to get back. This can probably be easily explained by speeds (traffic on the way so slower - none on the way back so went freeway at 100), but reliability in this space will help to determine how compatible an EV would be with our lifestyle.

The difficulty is the time to charge something like a Model 3 or Y is could be the better part of a day to go from 0 to 100% using a standard 10a socket; and if you want to time it to take advantage of solar (or cheap time of use tarrifs), you need to have the car at home while you'd usually be out and about or at work... this could be addressed with planning but if you add in range uncertainty, you'll always want the car to be reasonably charged, making it harder to choose when you charge it.

Finally, cost - I've been impressed with the teslas but I am not a person to invest that much money in a car, and really am hoping something smaller (but reliable) can come out in the $30k-40k range. Really, all I want is an electric i30!

 

[jastel]

If your bike goes flat you can still pedal it...or walk...or get a bus/taxi etc
All bikes use the same powerpoint to recharge.
There is normally only one reasonably fit person on a bike, not a family and luggage.

I agree most people will never need the max range on a daily basis and could probably recharge every 3 days or so but its those few times you do need to suddenly drive to woop woop with a half flat battery and cant find a charger that are the problem.

 

[exceladdict]

If your bike goes flat you can still pedal it...or walk...or get a bus/taxi etc
All bikes use the same powerpoint to recharge.
There is normally only one reasonably fit person on a bike, not a family and luggage.

I agree most people will never need the max range on a daily basis and could probably recharge every 3 days or so but its those few times you do need to suddenly drive to woop woop with a half flat battery and cant find a charger that are the problem.

I had the experience of a super soco TS going flat on me about 800 metres from my destination, despite being around 10% battery. Despite being much lighter than a combustion bike, it was not fun to walk that up a hill!

 

[tgh]

With no real possibility of anything better than 10 amp in our new abode and the challenges of range to visit the family, we will eventually replace both our current wheels with ic ( internal combustion) powered updates.
I have always been an early adopter of new tech but opine that there are a lot of bridges for ev cross to even approach ic convenience.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

All bikes use the same powerpoint to recharge.

Yes same 240V AC power supply in Australia but in last 24 years we have used / sold 12 different chargers (diff voltage / diff plugs) so 1 size does not fit all.

There is normally only one reasonably fit person on a bike, not a family and luggage.

And what percentage of total car trips undertaken in Australia annually are driver only?

 

[Noah Count]

I didn't go down the true EV path but rather a PHEV, it has arrived in Australia and stuck on a dock somewhere waiting to be transported to Adelaide. For those who maybe considering an EV or PHEV, if you can take out a novated lease and can keep it under the LTC value currently $89332 they are exempt from FBT, On road costs and stamp duty are not included for the purposes of the LCT calculation. There are some conditions Electric cars exemption and it cuts out on 31 Mar 25.

 

[kookaburra75]

Have been loaned an EV from a family member for the next few weeks. The key thing for me isn't just range but a reliable way to estimate range. For example, it used under 10% to get to work yesterday but then 15% to get back. This can probably be easily explained by speeds (traffic on the way so slower - none on the way back so went freeway at 100), but reliability in this space will help to determine how compatible an EV would be with our lifestyle.

The difficulty is the time to charge something like a Model 3 or Y is could be the better part of a day to go from 0 to 100% using a standard 10a socket; and if you want to time it to take advantage of solar (or cheap time of use tarrifs), you need to have the car at home while you'd usually be out and about or at work... this could be addressed with planning but if you add in range uncertainty, you'll always want the car to be reasonably charged, making it harder to choose when you charge it.

Finally, cost - I've been impressed with the teslas but I am not a person to invest that much money in a car, and really am hoping something smaller (but reliable) can come out in the $30k-40k range. Really, all I want is an electric i30!

I've been doing a lot of research on EVs, as getting one is on my list to do, in the next couple of years. I've joined some of the Owners Facebook groups to get an idea of pluses and minuses. One is range; but as pointed out there is a big difference between achievable range in a city setting, and in a rural setting. In a city, you have the regenerative braking every time you slow or use the brakes, topping up the battery. Out on the open highway, you don't get that advantage. The Atto3 Owner Group reports that around Sydney they are getting 450+ kms. Out on the road on a trip to say Canberra, at 110kph, you get 300km range.

I noticed Sixt Hire Car have the Atto 3, but on my next trip to Melbourne they're all taken that weekend. I may have to hire one here in Canberra to check out the view from the driver's seat, handling, ride etc - which is a cheap way to do it.

 

[exceladdict]

I've been doing a lot of research on EVs, as getting one is on my list to do, in the next couple of years. I've joined some of the Owners Facebook groups to get an idea of pluses and minuses. One is range; but as pointed out there is a big difference between achievable range in a city setting, and in a rural setting. In a city, you have the regenerative braking every time you slow or use the brakes, topping up the battery. Out on the open highway, you don't get that advantage. The Atto3 Owner Group reports that around Sydney they are getting 450+ kms. Out on the road on a trip to say Canberra, at 110kph, you get 300km range.

I noticed Sixt Hire Car have the Atto 3, but on my next trip to Melbourne they're all taken that weekend. I may have to hire one here in Canberra to check out the view from the driver's seat, handling, ride etc - which is a cheap way to do it.

Just ran some numbers on a BYD dolphin via a 4 year novated lease and selling at the end, vs holding onto our current car and selling that in 4 years. The exchange would be about cost neutral if I was able to charge purely from solar, or a few grand extra out of pocket if entirely charging from the grid at 32c/kwh.

Obviously have to be willing/able to take out the loan for the lease, bear the risk of selling after 4 years vs the balloon cost, etc. But am glad to have made the comparison and to see the numbers are pretty close!

 

[Quickstatus]

Ordered a Tesla ModelY Long Range 4Apr. Delivery 30June
I installed a 16A 3phase Wall charger capable of 11kWh charging (the most the MYLR can accept)

The MYLR (one of the bigger EV around) average city consumption is 140Wh/km

For daily routine driving:
100km/day = 14kWh

Time needed to charge 14kWh with single phase 230V with the charging current below:

10A = 6hr
15A = 4hr
20A = 3hr
32A = 2hr

My 11kWh charger will add 14kWh in 70min
This is overkill.

Most cars are at home for more than 6hrs each day. So even for 100km/day a 10A GPO is more than enough.

I can get from home to Jindabyne without ever needing to charge to 100% at any point in the journey
There are fast chargers at Pheasants nest Ampol, Exeter heatherbrae pies (behind Maccas), Goulburn, Canberra, Cooma and Jindabyne.

I can also go from Sydney to Wagga similarly with the above plus fast chargers at Gundagai and soon to be Wagga.

I can even charge for free at Thredbo - yes a ski resort installed 8 x 22kW chargers with free parking and free electricity (however the Teslas can only do 11 kWh and the Atto 7kWh

Fast chargers - Direct current DC chargers are popping up in many places. Many are funded by Arena. DC chargers have charging rates up to 350kW.

Charging options can be as obscure as a rural showgrounds which have multiple 32A 3 phase sockets.

There are Tesla undertaking round Australia trips and charging as they go seemingly without being stranded

20,000km /year @140Wh/ = approx 2800kWh
If charging using off peak electricity @ 0.2c/kWh, the annual electricity cost will be $560/year. For me it's essentially free as I can charge at work for nothing.

The MYLR does not have a spare tyre but Tesla have contracted third parties like tow truck operators to carry loan spare tyres along major highways. (I'm going to get a full size spare for these long trips).

 

[Quickstatus]

The difficulty is the time to charge something like a Model 3 or Y is could be the better part of a day to go from 0 to 100% using a standard 10a socket

It's a common misconception that EV are only charged from 0-100%.
Ev charging is as easy as ABC = "Always Be Charging". It's quite different to ICE Vehicles where drivers only fill up the petrol tank when it's empty.
There are 2 types of driving. Daily commuting and long trips. The vast majority of driving is the former. Just plug it in when the car arrives home. And when a rapid charge is necessary just use a DC charger such as a supercharger.

Solar charging is a myth. Most people are at work during the day. There are edge cases such as WFH. But the cost of charging is so little - see above post of $500-600 per year, it's petty cash compared to petrol. Of course there is the convenience of offpeak overnight charging while u sleep.

 

[TheRealTMA]

 

[elanshin]

I've been doing quite a lot of research on EV over the last couple of years and will likely be replacing our bmw x1 (MY14) soonish.

While the market is starting to increase in players, right now it's almost certainly Tesla 3/Y that is still leading. I have gripes with Teslas even after driving them for a bit, but nothing that I would consider deal breaking.

At this stage personally I'd also see Tesla's likely hold value for resell a bit better than some of the other vehicles as they're a bit more mature and just more refined vehicle today.

It almost feels like the iPhone vs Android earlier days where iPhone was clearly superior by quite a ways and the other side is playing catch up.

I do feel the other manufacturers will catch up and that China in particular is going to become a big player going forward as well. Sadly with our policies still, we're likely still the tail end of new EV vehicles to make it here.

 

[Noah Count]

Solar charging is a myth. Most people are at work during the day. There are edge cases such as WFH. But the cost of charging is so little - see above post of $500-600 per year, it's petty cash compared to petrol. Of course there is the convenience of offpeak overnight charging while u sleep.

I am one of those edge cases and do not do a lot of KMs per week with the minimum required being 26km and WFH 3 days a week. The the vehicle I just sold (diesel) took me 9 years to put on just under 40,000 km so on average 85 km per week. I have gone down the EV path due to FBT savings, I did consider going full BEV but in the end I know I do not have the inclination to work out EV stops if I was to drive say ADL-MEL or ADL-SYD. In my case a PHEV seemed to be the best option. I will only run it in EV mode and at best have to charge it every 2-3 weeks and worst once or twice a week. When on road trips or going to places that do not have public charging stations I will have the petrol donk to fall back on. I did consider putting in a wall charger, I have around 12KW of solar on the roof (I can fit more one but do not think I am allowed too) plus a battery, the cost for a wall charger and quicker charge advantages seemed unnecessary.

 

[jastel]

Yes same 240V AC power supply in Australia but in last 24 years we have used / sold 12 different chargers (diff voltage / diff plugs) so 1 size does not fit all.


And what percentage of total car trips undertaken in Australia annually are driver only?

Yes - thats my point...too many different connections.

Guessing probably 60-70%..not sure why you asked that?
My point was if your Ebike goes flat, its not as serious as if your Ecar goes flat with your kids and the luggage inside.

I'm not totally against them but I am against govts forcing us into them for supposed green benefits. What suits Canberra does not suit all of us.

 

[LinaLee]

I went all in n have just picked up the EQA250 today. Drove home in peak hour traffic through Melbourne via Flemington. Batteries barely used due to braking often. This time around did not do any research just liked the car in petrol version but then got tired of city commute using a gas guzzler so electric it was and as long as it’s not a Tesla. Was holding out for the polestar if they were ever going to have a SUV but the old car was on its last leg even when I was ordering this car last year in June. Only took 14 months to get here!

 

[cove]

At work we run a fleet of Toyota Camry Hybrids but due to Toyota’s lousy supply we had to get a Kia Niro hybrid. We get a range of results of between 4.0 to 5.6 litres per 100 kms. The wide variation is caused by the driver and whether the vehicle is used in the city or country.
Because our warehouse/offices have large roof spaces we can use that space to go solar to get the charging for almost nothing.
We do have to get over range anxiety but I am used to having a 700 kms range in our current 3 hybrid vehicles that we have at home.
i have said that i could reduce that range to 560kms but Mrscove thinks i would be ok with sub 400 kms range.
i did buy Eagers shares which is APE on ASX as they are selling BYD vehicles that are number one in electric vehicles in the world.

 

[lakeman]

Just ran some numbers on a BYD dolphin via a 4 year novated lease and selling at the end, vs holding onto our current car and selling that in 4 years. The exchange would be about cost neutral if I was able to charge purely from solar, or a few grand extra out of pocket if entirely charging from the grid at 32c/kwh.

Obviously have to be willing/able to take out the loan for the lease, bear the risk of selling after 4 years vs the balloon cost, etc. But am glad to have made the comparison and to see the numbers are pretty close!

For info in this thread ,there are power plans with lower off peak rates at 8 cents/kw for ev owners to charge after midnight.
I don’t think there are any plans this low for non ev owners.

The EV Plan — OVO Energy

Overnight charging of $0.08/kWh between 00:00 and 06:00, and free between 11 to 2pm. Having an EV has never been so good

pages.ovoenergy.com.au

 

[Gremlin]

I've been doing quite a lot of research on EV over the last couple of years and will likely be replacing our bmw x1 (MY14) soonish.

While the market is starting to increase in players, right now it's almost certainly Tesla 3/Y that is still leading. I have gripes with Teslas even after driving them for a bit, but nothing that I would consider deal breaking.

At this stage personally I'd also see Tesla's likely hold value for resell a bit better than some of the other vehicles as they're a bit more mature and just more refined vehicle today.

It almost feels like the iPhone vs Android earlier days where iPhone was clearly superior by quite a ways and the other side is playing catch up.

I do feel the other manufacturers will catch up and that China in particular is going to become a big player going forward as well. Sadly with our policies still, we're likely still the tail end of new EV vehicles to make it here.

Do you like your X1? If so, why not an iX1? MIL just got one to replace her X1 (think her old one was MY15?) and she loves it.