Qantas 747 and 767 retirements

[Flyerqf]

How are Qantas going to retire all of their 767 aircraft by mid-2015 without reducing capacity?

There are 23 767s to retire from the fleet. 5 new A330 have just gone active for Qantas Domestic (1 delivered new and 4 transferred from international) plus there are 11 A330s to come back from Jetstar (should be complete by 2015 if Jetstar has received all of its 14 787s). This means there is 7 less A330s available compared to 767s being retired. There will be 5 new 737s to fill some of this but clearly capacity on domestic will reduce by 2015? The international 767 services will either cease or be replaced by A330/787.

With the 747s, they are now down to 15. They will keep at least 12 around until 2016 and then start replacing with 787-9s. At least 6 (ER version) will stay until 2020 and be replaced by A380s.

I believe all the remaining 747s are owned, not leased, so they may keep more than 12 longer if required, as all of the A330-300s (10 frames) currently on international routes are fully utilised.

No more 747s are due to be retired this year, but 5 further 767s are due to depart.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out..

 

[oz_mark]

How are Qantas going to retire all of their 767 aircraft by mid-2015 without reducing capacity?

Dunno, but I don't think they have ever said they would maintain capacity. The trick is that you need to look at capacity across the group, rather than the brand.

There are 23 767s to retire from the fleet. 5 new A330 have just gone active for Qantas Domestic (1 delivered new and 4 transferred from international) plus there are 11

The 5 current domestic A330s, were delivered in domestic configuration

There will be 5 new 737s to fill some of this but clearly capacity on domestic will reduce by 2015? The international 767 services will either cease or be replaced by A330/787.

The incoming 737s are one for one replacements of the 727-400s. So a bit bigger.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out..

More aircraft with orange stars on them!

 

[Flyerqf]

Dunno, but I don't think they have ever said they would maintain capacity. The trick is that you



The incoming 737s are one for one replacements of the 727-400s. So a bit bigger.

In February they announced 5 more 737-800, in addition to those already coming in to replace the 737-400.

 

[oz_mark]

In February they announced 5 more 737-800, in addition to those already coming in to replace the 737-400.

Well that will be the answer then!

 

[docjames]

I thought they were retaining 9 x 744 (the 6 -ERs plus 3 others).

Originally the 787s were also to come by that timeframe - who knows now when they'll arrive (in either orange or red!).

I'd bet on the 763s soldering on....

 

[Tom/PER]

A333's also do trans continental services to PER on some days multiple flights.

I believe 2 more B744's are slated for retirement later this year.

 

[RickyT84]

The capacity reduction arising from the retirement of the B763s may not be as bad as one would expect as the 332s can carry either 303 or 310 pax which represents a relatively big capacity increase over the 763s (which has a maxmium capacity of 252).

Also the four international configured 332 are now flying on domestic routes only so QF can afford to retire some 763s if they want to.

 

[markis10]

The capacity reduction arising from the retirement of the B763s may not be as bad as one would expect as the 332s can carry either 303 or 310 pax which represents a relatively big capacity increase over the 763s (which has a maxmium capacity of 252).

Also the four international configured 332 are now flying on domestic routes only so QF can afford to retire some 763s if they want to.

Beg to differ on the capacity reduction not being as bad, have you looked at the A330 domestic turnaround time versus B763, while they may carry less, on the golden triangle they can do more flights in a day. Will help transcon eliminate 763s but reduce frequency and increase gate congestion on 1 hour legs. Of course the 738s will help here, but its possible those that like twin aisle on the golden triangle may soon see their options limited.

 

[harvyk]

Beg to differ on the capacity reduction not being as bad, have you looked at the A330 domestic turnaround time versus B763, while they may carry less, on the golden triangle they can do more flights in a day. Will help transcon eliminate 763s but reduce frequency and increase gate congestion on 1 hour legs. Of course the 738s will help here, but its possible those that like twin aisle on the golden triangle may soon see their options limited.

Given the golden triangle has two of the busiest air-routes in the world in it, wouldn't turning things into single aisles either cause a pretty big capacity reduction or clogging up of the sky?
Just thinking about an article I've read from a US pilot that pretty much lays the blame for a lot of the delays experienced over there due to B737's and even MD-80's doing high frequency runs instead of bigger aircraft like B767's carrying a similar number of people less frequently, but on one aircraft instead of 2 or 3.

 

[markis10]

Given the golden triangle has two of the busiest air-routes in the world in it, wouldn't turning things into single aisles either cause a pretty big capacity reduction or clogging up of the sky?
Just thinking about an article I've read from a US pilot that pretty much lays the blame for a lot of the delays experienced over there due to B737's and even MD-80's doing high frequency runs instead of bigger aircraft like B767's carrying a similar number of people less frequently, but on one aircraft instead of 2 or 3.

Thats the issue, and I think we are missing a part of the puzzle that solves that one

 

[RickyT84]

Given the golden triangle has two of the busiest air-routes in the world in it, wouldn't turning things into single aisles either cause a pretty big capacity reduction or clogging up of the sky?
Just thinking about an article I've read from a US pilot that pretty much lays the blame for a lot of the delays experienced over there due to B737's and even MD-80's doing high frequency runs instead of bigger aircraft like B767's carrying a similar number of people less frequently, but on one aircraft instead of 2 or 3.

Unforuantely, there is no silver bullet to the problem. Keep in mind that some people prefers frequency so reducing the number of flights but using a bigger aircraft would not help. This is more of an issue for the golden triangle.

Now if only QF can get some 788's for domestic flights within the next few years...

 

[pauly7]

Semi-related does anyone have a current number of how many 763 refurbs have been done so far?

 

[oz_mark]

Unforuantely, there is no silver bullet to the problem. Keep in mind that some people prefers frequency so reducing the number of flights but using a bigger aircraft would not help. This is more of an issue for the golden triangle.

Now if only QF can get some 788's for domestic flights within the next few years...

You could, say, replace 3 767s, with 2 A332s and a 737 and overall you won't have changed capacity much.....

 

[docjames]

I don't know that increased frequency is required on golden triangle. At most it's hourly, so increase on capacity is needed.

For the sector lengths, I'm surprised Qantas or Virgin never considered the 767-400. Cost of acquisition would be way less than 330s and could have been delivered rapidly.

 

[CaviAck]

I don't know that increased frequency is required on golden triangle. At most it's hourly, so increase on capacity is needed.

For the sector lengths, I'm surprised Qantas or Virgin never considered the 767-400. Cost of acquisition would be way less than 330s and could have been delivered rapidly.

You'd think for QF the A330s would've came from a package deal with the A380s and A320/321s for JQ.

 

[RickyT84]

Semi-related does anyone have a current number of how many 763 refurbs have been done so far?

According to another board, most of the OG* series have been refurbished (maybe with the exception of OGP). The ZX* series will not receive the refurb as they are due to be retired soon.

 

[ChrisCunard]

I think the answer to this question is they probably haven't got a clue what they are doing and will flip and flop around just as they have done on every fleet development decision since Dixon left.

Or perhaps I am being too harsh.

 

[mannej]

I think the answer to this question is they probably haven't got a clue what they are doing and will flip and flop around just as they have done on every fleet development decision since Dixon left.

Or perhaps I am being too harsh.

Since Dixon left? There are those who will argue that it extends to when he was at the helm possibly longer...

 

[harvyk]

I think the answer to this question is they probably haven't got a clue what they are doing and will flip and flop around just as they have done on every fleet development decision since Dixon left.

Well to be a little fair, they are having to make guesses on future fleet requirements based on today's market conditions. It would be very difficult to accurately guess what their 2016 fleet requirements will be and yet that's exactly what they are having to do. They are also having to make contingencies in the event that their fleet requirements do not pan out (who could have predicted last year that the B787's would spend most of the first half of this year grounded for instance)

 

[markis10]

I don't know that increased frequency is required on golden triangle. At most it's hourly, so increase on capacity is needed.

For the sector lengths, I'm surprised Qantas or Virgin never considered the 767-400. Cost of acquisition would be way less than 330s and could have been delivered rapidly.

Hourly, only off peak:

SYD-BNE every 30 mins 6-9AM and 5-7PM
SYD-MEL every 15 mins 6.30 to 9AM and 4-6PM and some 30 min ops during the day

If you consider the bay requirements for SYD-MEL alone in the AM, by my reckoning 7 are used for this route alone until 8AM



Another 4 for Sydney Brisbane, does not leave much for adding capacity, and not all bays are widebody capable.