Velocity Partner Reward Availability Rules

[Rayesfeg]

Does anyone have insight into the rule VA uses when it comes to releasing partner airline Business reward seats?

I understand other airlines generally release a set number of reward seats 1 year in advance.
Following VA business class seat availability departing Australia, it seems that business class reward seat availability just does not follow any sort of regularity or pattern and I can't seem to figure out what the logic is.

For example, there are plenty of business class seats available within the next 3 months departing Sydney/Melbourne to Europe and the US. But looking forward outside of 3 months (even outside of the peak Northern Hemisphere travel periods), there is basically nothing available.

Virgin is not part of an alliance so they can make their own rules, but it would be great to get an understanding of their methodology so us frequent flyers have the best chance of redeeming our velocity points for the 'grand prize' of long haul business class seats.

 

[elanshin]

Does anyone have insight into the rule VA uses when it comes to releasing partner airline Business reward seats?

I understand other airlines generally release a set number of reward seats 1 year in advance.
Following VA business class seat availability departing Australia, it seems that business class reward seat availability just does not follow any sort of regularity or pattern and I can't seem to figure out what the logic is.

For example, there are plenty of business class seats available within the next 3 months departing Sydney/Melbourne to Europe and the US. But looking forward outside of 3 months (even outside of the peak Northern Hemisphere travel periods), there is basically nothing available.

Virgin is not part of an alliance so they can make their own rules, but it would be great to get an understanding of their methodology so us frequent flyers have the best chance of redeeming our velocity points for the 'grand prize' of long haul business class seats.

First thing to know, VA doesn't set the rules. They are given the inventory by their partners who sets the rules.

Some may choose to give VA their inventory at the same time, others may decide that under new policy their own FF gets first dibs.

 

[Human]

As above, the individual airlines set the rules.

One example: as a general rule, Qatar releases two business class reward seats per flight into/out of Australia. If these seats haven't been taken by Qatar's own Privilege Club members (who have access to them earlier), the seats become available at 12am AEST (1am AEDT), 330 days before the flight.

That's a pretty regular pattern, although there was a period of a few months last year when Qatar didn't itself follow this pattern and reward seats were extremely difficult to come by. It seems to be working now, though.

Similarly, if Singapore Airlines has "Saver" award availability to its KrisFlyer members, it's generally available via Velocity, about 330 days before the flight (sometimes 329 or 328 days).

But the airlines have no obligation to follow any pattern. Some do, some don't. Those that do, sometimes change their patterns. That's the joy and frustration of using points to book award seats!

 

[Rayesfeg]

As above, the individual airlines set the rules.

One example: as a general rule, Qatar releases two business class reward seats per flight into/out of Australia. If these seats haven't been taken by Qatar's own Privilege Club members (who have access to them earlier), the seats become available at 12am AEST (1am AEDT), 330 days before the flight.

That's a pretty regular pattern, although there was a period of a few months last year when Qatar didn't itself follow this pattern and reward seats were extremely difficult to come by. It seems to be working now, though.

Similarly, if Singapore Airlines has "Saver" award availability to its KrisFlyer members, it's generally available via Velocity, about 330 days before the flight (sometimes 329 or 328 days).

But the airlines have no obligation to follow any pattern. Some do, some don't. Those that do, sometimes change their patterns. That's the joy and frustration of using points to book award seats!

That was a really helpful answer, thank you for your insight.

From a customer perspective, it is quite frustrating that there are no defined rules so that we can plan ahead when redeeming points. But it's good to know the general pattern regarding Singapore and Qatar.

 

[djkelly69]

Just continuing on this topic, is it still common to find UA J seats up to about 90 days in advance on VA, but not much (if anything) beyond that?

 

[bcworld]

Just continuing on this topic, is it still common to find UA J seats up to about 90 days in advance on VA, but not much (if anything) beyond that?

There is absolutely loads of UA J in the next 3 months...I actually thought the availability dumps were more close in than that...more like 3 weeks. but yes, it is common for there not to be much further out than 3 months. I use Lifemiles search to do a quick scan.

E.g. this is for FOUR J seats on MEL-LAX



...but there are only 3 days across Jun, Jul, Aug with that level of availability. 6 days if I search for 2 seats instead.

 

[levelnine]

Indeed, award availability between Australia and the US is the best it has ever been. United is an absolute gold mine. May it long continue.

 

[Bagpuss]

That was a really helpful answer, thank you for your insight.

From a customer perspective, it is quite frustrating that there are no defined rules so that we can plan ahead when redeeming points. But it's good to know the general pattern regarding Singapore and Qatar.

Doesn't really matter what the rules are.

If an airline releases the inventory at 12:01am for 2 seats and there are two people after two seats at exactly the same time, it's first in best dressed so process the transaction as fast as possible IE don't do seat selection.

It's not an entitlement and during peak times such as Easter / Christmas it's likely that reward seats aren't released based on a normal schedule. You actually may find seats are released close to departure in some cases as they haven't sold the seats to revenue passengers.

The main rule is to be flexible, have a plan A and B as a minimum and if you see seats available take it, don't question it.

 

[Rayesfeg]

Doesn't really matter what the rules are.

If an airline releases the inventory at 12:01am for 2 seats and there are two people after two seats at exactly the same time, it's first in best dressed so process the transaction as fast as possible IE don't do seat selection.

It's not an entitlement and during peak times such as Easter / Christmas it's likely that reward seats aren't released based on a normal schedule. You actually may find seats are released close to departure in some cases as they haven't sold the seats to revenue passengers.

The main rule is to be flexible, have a plan A and B as a minimum and if you see seats available take it, don't question it.

I'm not implying that I have any entitlement to rewards seats by any means.

What I am trying to understand is what the rules are so that I can be prepared at 11.59pm to book those seats if they become available at midnight (of whichever timezone it may be).

From the comments so far @Human pointed out above that Qatar and Singapore generally follow a regular pattern, meaning that I have an idea ahead of when I should be online ready to book.

 

[Human]

Doesn't really matter what the rules are.

Yes, but if you want seats and you know that they're released at 12:01am, you're much more likely to get them than if you didn't know that!

I remember the time I was up at 3am AEST so I could grab two precious Cathay Pacific business class trips to Europe (Cathay released them at 12am Hong Kong time). Got exactly the flights I wanted within minutes of their release. More than once I've also been up at 1am AEDT to grab Qatar seats.

It's not a sure-fire way to bag reward seats, but it makes success a helluva lot more likely.

 

[justinbrett]

I can't find any seats (Y or J) in/out of GUM with Velocity (either GUM-SPN, GUM-NRT, GUM-MNL or GUM-HNL), yet heaps of seats on UA and TK websites.

I haven't tried to call Velocity as I don't need to book yet, but wondering if it's a website issue, or whether UA doesn't release these to VA.

 

[justinbrett]

I can't find any seats (Y or J) in/out of GUM with Velocity (either GUM-SPN, GUM-NRT, GUM-MNL or GUM-HNL), yet heaps of seats on UA and TK websites.

I haven't tried to call Velocity as I don't need to book yet, but wondering if it's a website issue, or whether UA doesn't release these to VA.

I finally called up to check on this. Velocity told me that seats on the GUM routes are excluded from the VA partnership; this includes GUM-NRT, GUM-HNL and intra Pacific routes (SPN etc).

Strange as these seats are released to *A partners (I can see on TK).

 

[Jpmoore100]

Yes, but if you want seats and you know that they're released at 12:01am, you're much more likely to get them than if you didn't know that!

I remember the time I was up at 3am AEST so I could grab two precious Cathay Pacific business class trips to Europe (Cathay released them at 12am Hong Kong time). Got exactly the flights I wanted within minutes of their release. More than once I've also been up at 1am AEDT to grab Qatar seats.

It's not a sure-fire way to bag reward seats, but it makes success a helluva lot more likely.

We’re those two bookings through Velocity?

 

[Human]

We’re those two bookings through Velocity?

The Cathay booking was using Asia Miles for seats which were released at 3am. I’ve made several bookings using Velocity for Qatar flights whose seats were released at 12am AEST. Whichever frequent flyer programme you’re going through, the principal is the same: if you can be online in the minutes after the reward seats are released, you obviously are going to have a better chance of getting those reward seats.

 

[Jpmoore100]

The Cathay booking was using Asia Miles for seats which were released at 3am. I’ve made several bookings using Velocity for Qatar flights whose seats were released at 12am AEST. Whichever frequent flyer programme you’re going through, the principal is the same: if you can be online in the minutes after the reward seats are released, you obviously are going to have a better chance of getting those reward seats.

Thank you very much for that. Do you know when Singapore flights are released on Velocity? What about Singapore flights on Krisflyer?

 

[Human]

Thank you very much for that. Do you know when Singapore flights are released on Velocity? What about Singapore flights on Krisflyer?

I’m pretty sure that Singapore Airlines flights are, like Qatar, released on Velocity at midnight AEST, 330 days before the flights.

Almost all Singapore Airlines flights are released on KrisFlyer at 12am GMT (10am AEST), 355 days before the flight, except for flights from the USA which are released a few hours later at midnight local time (ie. flights from New York are released at midnight NY time, flights from Houston are released at midnight Texas time, etc).

 

[Jpmoore100]

I’m pretty sure that Singapore Airlines flights are, like Qatar, released on Velocity at midnight AEST, 330 days before the flights.

Almost all Singapore Airlines flights are released on KrisFlyer at 12am GMT (10am AEST), 355 days before the flight, except for flights from the USA which are released a few hours later at midnight local time (ie. flights from New York are released at midnight NY time, flights from Houston are released at midnight Texas time, etc).

Thank you very much again

 

[Jpmoore100]

Thank you very much again

Actually, one more question! I'm pretty new to Velocity, but I've noticed that the number of points required for a Singapore flight using Velocity is a lot less than if Velocity points are converted to Krisflyer, and then used to book there. Eg. Business class SQ leg on Velocity is 38,000 points, but 43,000 *miles* on Krisflyer (which is = to 66,650 Velocity points at a conversion of 1.55 to 1). Taxes are a bit lower on Krisflyer, and there seems to be more availability on Krisflyer, including for dates for when there is no business availability on Velocity. And the Krisflyer flights are, as you say, released 25 days earlier than they appear on Velocity. That would suggest that the best tactic is to wait to see if business class can be snapped up on Velocity (including by getting up at midnight!), and if that fails, convert to Krisflyer and try there. But that involves the risk that, by that time, the Krisflyer ones would all be gone.

Given all of that (sorry it's so long!), what's the best strategy do you think?

 

[Human]

Actually, one more question! I'm pretty new to Velocity, but I've noticed that the number of points required for a Singapore flight using Velocity is a lot less than if Velocity points are converted to Krisflyer, and then used to book there. Eg. Business class SQ leg on Velocity is 38,000 points, but 43,000 *miles* on Krisflyer (which is = to 66,650 Velocity points at a conversion of 1.55 to 1). Taxes are a bit lower on Krisflyer, and there seems to be more availability on Krisflyer, including for dates for when there is no business availability on Velocity. And the Krisflyer flights are, as you say, released 25 days earlier than they appear on Velocity. That would suggest that the best tactic is to wait to see if business class can be snapped up on Velocity (including by getting up at midnight!), and if that fails, convert to Krisflyer and try there. But that involves the risk that, by that time, the Krisflyer ones would all be gone.

Given all of that (sorry it's so long!), what's the best strategy do you think?

Really you've summed up the pros and cons of each approach perfectly.

Which approach you take depends on (a) how much of a risk you're prepared to take, and (b) how flexible you're able to be.

If, for example, you absolutely must fly into a certain destination at a certain time for an event that can't be moved (birthday/cruise/wedding etc) or you have children (or work in education) and so you can only travel during school/uni holidays, then the better strategy is to convert to KrisFlyer and the extra points you need are the price you pay for greater availability and the greater likelihood that you'll get the flights you want, when you want them.

If you're able to be more flexible, and patient, and you have some flexibility to begin and end your trip on different dates, or to fly to/from different destinations if the one you want isn't available, then the better strategy is to use Velocity points and to take what hasn't been taken by KrisFlyer members during the 25 days they have access before Velocity.

Over the years, I've adopted both strategies depending on the circumstances.

 

[johnjones878]

I asked this in the newbie thread but didn't get an answer (after also being unable to find a clear answer trawling through older posts and threads). But does SQ have a separate reward seat 'bucket' for their Saver miles seats versus the ones they release to their partners? I'm searching for rewards seats on Velocity around 300-330 days out and can't find seats available even though on there are still Saver fares up for redemption through Krisflyer. Have also done searches for the same dates through Air Canada Aeroplan and there are also different seat availability for the same SQ routes versus on Virgin Velocity.