Does anyone on AFF use NZ/Airpoints as their primary program?

[Mattg]

Airpoints doesn't seem to get a lot of love around here, and many seem to regard it as a very poor value FF program. Most Kiwi flyers that I know, even if they fly Air NZ regularly, credit to another Star Alliance program (or avoid the airline altogether). So I was just wondering - does anyone here use Airpoints as their primary program and/or have elite status with Air NZ?

I'm not looking to bash Air New Zealand, just genuinely interested in the reasons why people do still use that program.

 

[serfty]

I am in a transition month to Airpoints *S after a year of *G and 5 years of (BIS) *E ... these last two are "soft landing"

It used to be worth it to me with tbe gauranteed *E upgrades.

In 2012 they ripped the program to shreds, including the upgrade methology, bad for NZ residents & shocking for non NZ residents.

All travel I have had on NZ in the past 3 years has been credited to Velocity.

 

[RooFlyer]

Sound of Crickets

 

[serfty]

FWIW a NZ resident traveling on the cheapest dimestic fares really has little choice ... i.e. it is better than nothing.

It will be interesting to see what happens with AinNZ and how they react to the introduction of Jetstarlink ...

 

[Mattg]

FWIW a NZ resident traveling on the cheapest dimestic fares really has little choice ... i.e. it is better than nothing.

So, travelling domestically within NZ, most fares don't earn anything with partner programs? That seems pretty poor.

 

[serfty]

So, travelling domestically within NZ, most fares don't earn anything with partner programs? That seems pretty poor.

It is Airpoints. .. circa 2015 ...

 

[dajop]

Where it might work these days, if your employer was paying for a business class fare to the US, you could get star gold with that return trip and enough points for a return flight to NZ. I can't think of any other star alliance programs that would get you to gold that quickly (now that A3 has an own metal requirement for the shorter qualification). That's about the extent of it these days.

 

[TomVexille]

So, travelling domestically within NZ, most fares don't earn anything with partner programs? That seems pretty poor.

Pretty much. It is possible, but only in the most expensive fare classes. Which don't actually show up too often.

 

[smit0847]

One of the worst value FF programs in the world.

 

[RailFlyer]

I live in NZ these days. Is there any other/better option than the crop of Airpoint$ crediting Credit Cards?

 

[Mattg]

I live in NZ these days. Is there any other/better option than the crop of Airpoint$ crediting Credit Cards?

I was wondering about this myself, so just did a bit of online research.

It seems there are a couple of ANZ cards in NZ linked to Qantas. Otherwise, I'm not 100% about what's available in New Zealand, but I would imagine there would be credit cards there with their own rewards programs where the points can be converted into points in other airlines' rewards programs. IMHO crediting to almost any program other than Airpoints would be better value...

 

[Mattg]

I also came across this article, which "reviews" the Airpoints program:
Air New Zealand Airpoints Frequent Flyer Program Review | finder.com.au

I must say, I find the article somewhat misleading as it fails to point out a number of the biggest flaws in the program. For example, it says that:

The airline requires its passengers to have 450 points to become a Silver member. In comparison, Qantas requires 300 status points. However, it is important to note that Air New Zealand gives status points even when a traveller books a smart saver or grabaseat flight.

Would it not be important also to mention that most of those "grabaseat" fares earn about 1 Airpoints dollar, while the cheapest QF flights actually earn 10 status credits? I think it's kind of important to mention that earn rates are not alike when comparing status retention requirements. It also says this:

The point validity of the Airpoints Dollars is quite generous in comparison to other frequent flyer programs because it lasts for four years. In comparison, Singapore Airline’s KrisFlyer Miles have a validity of three years.

Shouldn't they mention that many other programs' points won't expire at all as long as the account is active? I hardly consider it "generous" that all points expire within 4 years. Finally, when comparing the program's pros and cons, the only two "cons" they can think of are:

• Limited rewards partners. Air New Zealand has fewer rewards partners compared to other airlines. For example, Emirates allows Skywards members to redeem their points on larger range of hotel chains.
• Confusing points structure for Australians. One Airpoints Dollars equates to one New Zealand dollar. The amount that is converted to Australians is subject to the company’s discretion.

I can think of many more (the $30 joining fee is just a start), and IMHO if this "review" had been properly researched and didn't have a clearly biased agenda (i.e. to sign people up to Airpoints-earning credit cards), they should also should have been able to. In my opinion, someone reading that review with little knowledge of frequent flyer programs would be led to believe that Airpoints is a generous program.

Why am I concerned about this? It's the second page to come up if you type "Airpoints review" into Google and frankly, it's misleading.

 

[serfty]

Here's an example.

I have a one way MEL-AKL booking coming up.

On checking the booking shows an estimated AP$ earn of 1 and for Status Points, 7.

5 years ago, AP$ earn would have been zero, but SC earn would have been 30.

(Amex converts Australian rewards at at a rate of 1 AP$:100 MR points)

FWIW, I will credit that travel to Velocity and expect to earn 412 points and 20 SC's.

 

[Altair]

As a NZ based flyer here I would say that Airpoints is a pretty rotten scheme and you would only credit flights to it if there is no other option.
Due to the poor programme, and its impact on its partners and *A members, I basically stopped flying *A and focussed on QF I was looking at WP perks not redemtion rates.
Airpoints does have some benefits, eg. Sharepoints, easy to use redemptions on NZ metal, but quite frankly Airpoints makes QFF look good!:shock:

 

[JK1964]

Have to agree with Serfty. Was my primary program from 2008 through 2014 but am now giving airpoints the flick. Earning rates were slashed and frankly, if you live outside NZ the program has become a joke.

 

[NZflygirl]

I also came across this article, which "reviews" the Airpoints program:

I must say, I find the article somewhat misleading as it fails to point out a number of the biggest flaws in the program. For example, it says that:


Would it not be important also to mention that most of those "grabaseat" fares earn about 1 Airpoints dollar, while the cheapest QF flights actually earn 10 status credits? I think it's kind of important to mention that earn rates are not alike when comparing status retention requirements. It also says this:


Shouldn't they mention that many other programs' points won't expire at all as long as the account is active? I hardly consider it "generous" that all points expire within 4 years. Finally, when comparing the program's pros and cons, the only two "cons" they can think of are:


I can think of many more (the $30 joining fee is just a start), and IMHO if this "review" had been properly researched and didn't have a clearly biased agenda (i.e. to sign people up to Airpoints-earning credit cards), they should also should have been able to. In my opinion, someone reading that review with little knowledge of frequent flyer programs would be led to believe that Airpoints is a generous program.

Why am I concerned about this? It's the second page to come up if you type "Airpoints review" into Google and frankly, it's misleading.

I live in NZ, fly domestic NZ, TT and domestic Australia. NZ is still my preferred programme. Yes some will say I have no choice within NZ and there is some truth in this. But I think there's more to choosing a FFP than just points. NZs wide body aircraft are better products to fly TT IMO. EK and LAN associated with QF have worse scheduling. QF doesn't offer direct PER flights most of the year and even if they did I wouldn't fly their A330 preferentially, even with the new business product roll out. International business on the TT QF 737-800 is a product some will jump at a cheaper price for business compared to NZ but it's really not on the same par as NZ business. I'm not even sure it's comparable to the PE seats. But some people hate the space seat which is only one form. Although NZs A320s don't have business as far as I know, but I would still fly their A320 in economy over the 737 QF.

The NZ customer service has exceeded my expectations whereas QF is less than expected.

I think NZ elite translates to QF plat, yet you need the platinum one status for the plat partner benefit which is available at Elite on NZ. The recognition upgrades are available for confirmation 1yr out vs the 2 and 7 days listed for QF. Some people moan on NZ they aren't able to use their RUs on the busy routes but some moan on QF they can't find award seats. I've only once been charged a booking fee (was about to moan as I hadn't been charged before but then thought better of it as I know it's listed on their website), whereas this is a benefit for plat one with QF.

There are other differences at the different tier levels. Even at the paid membership club level I would rank koru membership above QC. You get TWO bags instead of just a "heavier" bag allowance and premium check in, fast track security lane through international at Auckland airport, and priority boarding. Lounge access well both look like they cover their destinations and then some. You can get koru club at a reduced price if you have the airpoints credit card too, the higher end like platinum, can't remember if includes gold etc but may do.

In your sentence re grabaseat, APD and sc I just wanted to point out that the QF status credits are equivalent in nature to the NZ status points, and QF qantas points are comparable to the NZ airpoint dollars. AFAIK the lowest SP earn is 8 on NZ so not too dissimilar to the sc of 10 on QF. The redemption rates of QP and APD well I have not worked out yet.

With regards to APD expiry, if you hold an airpoints credit card, or koru club, gold or elite, your airpoint dollars never expire.

I think there are many opportunities to join airpoints for free. They mention it often on TT flights and I read a thread on FT about a code you could use to get free membership. QF I think was $50 for NZ residents to join but were advertising free sign ups recently.

I would love to find a head to head analysis of QF vs VA vs NZ of both FFP and just general airline quality but suspect I'll have to do this myself one day. I am pretty sure there are a lot more differences to be uncovered.

Many programmes appear to be getting devalued. So I guess it's back to basics - price, schedule, best product. NZ is a bit more pricey but has great deals to Oz pretty frequently. QF does look to have a slightly better earn rate. QF also have better lounges but for me lounges aren't a reason to change airlines. Can't see myself flying the 747 or A380 unless they're offering super low fares somewhere. Otherwise I'll take NZ to London via the US or SQ via SIN because Changi is a cool airport, or EK (looking to try EY also) because they've got good reputations. I would invest in Air Nz as an airline, but not QF. Credit to QF for having the worlds best safety record though. I'm not sure I would trade NZ Elite for QF Plat.

 

[greenfish]

NZflygirl, the criticism is of the FF program, not the airline. I like Air NZ, but the FF scheme is dire. Sadly, what choice have you got if you mostly fly domestically whithin NZ?

If you're flying TT, then sure, fly Air NZ, but credit to pretty much any other aligned FF scheme; I'm with Serfty and prefer to credit to Velocity.

The Airpoints program sadly reflects the abject lack of competition for flying within NZ.

 

[NZflygirl]

Hmmm I've been really happy with both the airline and FFP despite it being a supposedly cough programme. Seems pointless to go to another FFP just to get all the benefits that NZ gives me now. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be an EP1 or plat one type member of any FFP, I just don't do enough flying for that. I will go for a little status on QF to help smooth the airport/flying experience in Oz but then I think it's just letting SP rollover on NZ.

 

[serfty]

Hmmm I've been really happy with both the airline and FFP despite it being a supposedly cough programme. Seems pointless to go to another FFP just to get all the benefits that NZ gives me now. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be an EP1 or plat one type member of any FFP, I just don't do enough flying for that. I will go for a little status on QF to help smooth the airport/flying experience in Oz but then I think it's just letting SP rollover on NZ.

See my post #2 of this thread.

I found Air NZ crew to be generally among the friendliest and most helpful out there. Not far behind, if at all, are the Jetconnect crew. Both tend to provide a far better service than Qantas crew.

Yes, NZ has wide-bodies, but aside from the single daily swoop of the 777's to each of MEL/SYD/BNE there's little more - for MEL there's occasionally a Friday 767 when loads are up.

Other than that you are basically stuck with 320's with no prospect of upgrading. And, for mine, the economy product on QF is better and generally cheaper than the WORKS product on NZ.

I have not had a single RU expire unused having judiciously used them (mainly between AKL-SFO/LAX).

QF WP1 is earned with 3600 SC's, partner gold benefits are available for QF WP at 2400.

See my example in post #13 of this thread; it would take 60 trans-tasman round trips (A bit over 1 a week) on such flights in discount economy to earn that 2400. To get the 1500 SP for *E on NZ would take 108 such round trips (a bit over 2 per week). In the mean time, a WP earns 240000 QFF points, a *E would earn just 1505 APD (AU).

Forgetting all that, I pursued *E for the confirmed upgrades 355 days out, even it it meant 67% of my SP earning travel had to be on "NZ Flights". What killed it for me was the introduction of OneUp - where non RU upgrades were restricted to one class. It destroyed the main reason I was chasing *E. Moreover a NZ resident could purchase an APD for $1; non NZ residents had no such option.

I now look to VA; at least on my upcoming NZ flight I'll earn 20 SC's and a little over 400 velocity points - oh ... and I can book an economy flight transpacific and have an upgrade confirmed 330 days out.

 

[NZflygirl]

See my post #2 of this thread.

Other than that you are basically stuck with 320's with no prospect of upgrading. And, for mine, the economy product on QF is better and generally cheaper than the WORKS product on NZ.

QF WP1 is earned with 3600 SC's, partner gold benefits are available for QF WP at 2400.

See my example in post #13 of this thread; it would take 60 trans-tasman round trips (A bit over 1 a week) on such flights in discount economy to earn that 2400. To get the 1500 SP for *E on NZ would take 108 such round trips (a bit over 2 per week). In the mean time, a WP earns 240000 QFF points, a *E would earn just 1505 APD (AU).

Forgetting all that, I pursued *E for the confirmed upgrades 355 days out, even it it meant 67% of my SP earning travel had to be on "NZ Flights". What killed it for me was the introduction of OneUp - where non RU upgrades were restricted to one class. It destroyed the main reason I was chasing *E. Moreover a NZ resident could purchase an APD for $1; non NZ residents had no such option.

I now look to VA; at least on my upcoming NZ flight I'll earn 20 SC's and a little over 400 velocity points - oh ... and I can book an economy flight transpacific and have an upgrade confirmed 330 days out.

Point taken re the A320s. I've flown them domestically and to the pacific islands but never TT. I haven't had an issue with them on those flights. I prefer them over the 737s. I have a personal rule to generally suck it up in economy under 6 hrs although have taken advantage of the PE FF seating on occasion (it's free!) although TBH I quite liked having no one next to me in economy especially if getting a bit of work done. I sometimes break my rule when flights get close to the 6hr mark. But for those who like to upgrade the option only exists on VA, QF (let's excl LAN and EK as they are also once a day).

My calculator isnt spitting out the same numbers as yours. I do buy seat + bag. I eat in the lounge then don't feel the need to eat on the plane it's such a short ride so I get to save a few dollars in places I'm happy saving. Looking at my statement it nets me SP of 23, 26 x2 flights and 35x2 flights on TT routes. That's an average SP of 29 per flight right there (145 SP / 5 flights). The goal is 1500 so 1500 / 29 = 51 flights.

On the saver economy (I think this is the seat + bag equivalent?) it gets 25 sc per flight according to QF tables. The goal is 2400 to get the partner card so 2400 / 25 = 96 flights. Even if you paid the flex econ fare 2400 / 40 = 60 flights. Even if I reduced the goal to 1400 for plat, 1400 / 25 = 56 flights but slightly less benefits.

Another question, if the price of the flight goes up closer the time on both QF and NZ, NZ will increase the SP and APD earn, does QF do this or are those sc earns set in stone?

I dont think NZs earn rate of SP to APD is a linear relationship either. The more you pay, the more you earn eg premium cabins. Whereas I looked at a transcon QF flight and it was (from memory which might be unreliable) $686 for econ fare to earn 60sc? Then business was $1898 with only an extra 40 sc earn I think. Yet the price paid was triple. Something I wouldn't see on NZ.

I think your QP calculation includes the bonus earns (and rightly so), but I haven't figured that one out and the relationship to redemptions. I'm still learning best uses of APD. Giving them away has been the most popular use and I figure I'll probably do the same with QP, or use them for upgrades transcon because I can't see myself paying those silly prices. I think the RUs x2 long haul and short haul should be given a calculated value as well, let's say syd-lax x2 (econ to PE) and Akl - syd x1 (econ to business) = 106,000 QP according to QP upgrade calculator. The elite APD upgrades shouldn't be forgotten either. There will be some QP equivalent.

I haven't changed anything due to one up. Haven't tried it. My RUs have cleared. Tried an APD upgrade the other day and that cleared. I realise these are probably route and time of year dependent.....so I've been lucky. It makes sense those buying APD are those that need a little top up for a flight somewhere, which doesn't seem any different from me paying for a flight with APD. It seems as long as there's a seat they'll sell it! It's not restricted like an upgrade reward. I'm not sure how else buying APD is going to affect my place in the programme.

Although credit cards add another dimension, if you are living in NZ it's something that should be included in considering FFP choice due to their ability to earn SP. Could put people into the categories they want. However I am on AFF.