How does CX treat you as an elite?

[Fiches Mouser]

TL;DR version: how do you get treated by CX as a MP elite?

And the back story:

Having been WP with VA (and using SQ extensively) over the past three years, I've decided to embark on a new personal project for the coming year .

I want to reach Gold (and possibly Diamond, but I could be dreaming there) with CX. Most of my travel is intra-Asia, and very occasionally beyond to the US or Europe.

The reason for my defection is, in part, due to a pretty frustrating lack of recognition on SQ and the fact VA itself has no serious international network to speak of, and I guess I'm just looking for more of a return on my travel spend. The other reason is the totally unacceptable lounges at SIN's hub when travelling in Y.

I can't see myself reaching PPS, so I thought a OW airline could be fun instead. I've had some good experiences in CX J, and have enquired about a status match, but I'm not hopeful.

Shout out to trippin_the_rift, who has written many excellent summaries of CX's recent MP changes. These have been extremely helpful in figuring out what's going on, and interesting to hear from a HKG-based member.

For me, the negative changes mean less as I wasn't invested previously in the program, so I'm coming in fresh with the new arrangements. Doing some rough numbers, it certainly will take a bit of flying to get there (but I have some CMB-related plans taking shape ).

Do you AM members dream of defection too? Is it a case of grass always being greener, or do you find you get looked after by CX and the pain of qualification is worth it?

 

[Fiches Mouser]

I have a feeling there aren't many Marco Polo elites amongst our ranks...

 

[defurax]

I don't know how much flying you intend to do via CMB, but I feel that reaching UL status might be easier... (they require a high number of flights on UL though...).

 

[trippin_the_rift]

TL;DR version: how do you get treated by CX as a MP elite?

<snip>

Shout out to trippin_the_rift, who has written many excellent summaries of CX's recent MP changes. These have been extremely helpful in figuring out what's going on, and interesting to hear from a HKG-based member.

For me, the negative changes mean less as I wasn't invested previously in the program, so I'm coming in fresh with the new arrangements. Doing some rough numbers, it certainly will take a bit of flying to get there (but I have some CMB-related plans taking shape ).

Do you AM members dream of defection too? Is it a case of grass always being greener, or do you find you get looked after by CX and the pain of qualification is worth it?

For the benefit of others reading this thread - new Marco Polo changes come into effect April 16, 2016 and overall there is significant devaluation in flexible&premium economy earning on CX.
Calculator that visually shows the difference on CX marked flights here New vs Old earning: Do Cathay Pacific Marco Polo Frequent Flyer Changes Affect You?

Generally speaking Diamonds are treated like Gods. Cabin crew are trained over and over to treat DMs exceptionally well; and this - combined with typical Asian culture - means there is a high standard of service towards Diamond members.
CX gives out 1000's of free upgrades to elite pax every day and they're extremely efficient at tracking the flight based value of a member - and rewarding them accordingly.

In my opinion: Marco Polo is a real frequent flyers program. It's not for status runners (CX actively tries to discourage inside their own program) but has a real premium sentiment which underpins the Cathay Pacific brand. CX are doing an amazing job at positioning the brand to reflect the down to earth, yet premium image and this is soon to be mirrored in the Marco Polo changes.

In terms of obtaining/retaining status here is a simple breakdown of CX vs QF:
SYD-HKG-SYD in Business (D)
on CX: 10% of the way to Diamond (10x return biz trips required for diamond)
on QF: 17% of the way to Platinum (6x return biz trips required for platinum)

If we reverse the crediting FF programs:
fly CX, but credit to QFF: 120sc (8.5% of way to Platinum)
fly QF, but credit to CX: 120cp (8.5% of way to Diamond)

This one example shows QFF is the winner - but you would need to consider your overall flying patterns, carriers you mostly fly on/could fly on, credit card points earning ability, if you plan on retaining status etc.

I created a gigantic model which looks at almost every Oneworld Frequent Flyer Program; the status and points earned on every single flight in every fare glass on every Oneworld program. There's approx 2 million possible options.From there, I looked at the cash price of each ticket in every fare class over a period of 12 months, and also the number of FF points required by each FF program to redeem on every flight on every other Oneworld carrier. I know you're thinking - wow this guy is nuts (yes - Red Bull is my friend).
There is incredible data that came from all of this and all frequent flyer programs would do similar modelling to validate their market positioning etc. This is one reason why some programs (DL, UA) can move to a revenue based (instead of mileage based) program because it makes it more difficult for competitors to reverse engineer the program effectively. (For a fun read: here is part of my analysis for the American Airlines portion pre-devaluation last week; Oneworld Frequent Flyer Analysis by flyora - American Airlines AAdvantage )

Anyway - right now Asia Miles (the currency of CX miles) are one of the most valuable Oneworld currencies. You can earn them at 1:1 from many Australian credit cards, but they go further and are worth more than QFF points. The kicker is you can use them on Qantas flights just like you would Qantas points!
For example:
SYD-HKG-SYD on CX biz class: 80K Asia Miles + tax
SYD-HKG-SYD on QF biz class: 120K QFF points + tax

There's many factors to consider when changing FF programs and I'm not sure switching purely because you want something new is the most logical rationale - however if you frequently travel to Asia then the Marco Polo program can provide a solid experience you won't find in other programs. There are downsides like no soft landing, 3 year points expiry....but I'll leave that for another post.

 

[legroom]

Wow !

Eye opening clarity

Well done

 

[Fiches Mouser]

For the benefit of others reading this thread - new Marco Polo changes come into effect April 16, 2016 and overall there is significant devaluation in flexible&premium economy earning on CX.
Calculator that visually shows the difference on CX marked flights here New vs Old earning: Do Cathay Pacific Marco Polo Frequent Flyer Changes Affect You?

Generally speaking Diamonds are treated like Gods. Cabin crew are trained over and over to treat DMs exceptionally well; and this - combined with typical Asian culture - means there is a high standard of service towards Diamond members.
CX gives out 1000's of free upgrades to elite pax every day and they're extremely efficient at tracking the flight based value of a member - and rewarding them accordingly.

In my opinion: Marco Polo is a real frequent flyers program. It's not for status runners (CX actively tries to discourage inside their own program) but has a real premium sentiment which underpins the Cathay Pacific brand. CX are doing an amazing job at positioning the brand to reflect the down to earth, yet premium image and this is soon to be mirrored in the Marco Polo changes.

In terms of obtaining/retaining status here is a simple breakdown of CX vs QF:
SYD-HKG-SYD in Business (D)
on CX: 10% of the way to Diamond (10x return biz trips required for diamond)
on QF: 17% of the way to Platinum (6x return biz trips required for platinum)

If we reverse the crediting FF programs:
fly CX, but credit to QFF: 120sc (8.5% of way to Platinum)
fly QF, but credit to CX: 120cp (8.5% of way to Diamond)

This one example shows QFF is the winner - but you would need to consider your overall flying patterns, carriers you mostly fly on/could fly on, credit card points earning ability, if you plan on retaining status etc.

I created a gigantic model which looks at almost every Oneworld Frequent Flyer Program; the status and points earned on every single flight in every fare glass on every Oneworld program. There's approx 2 million possible options.From there, I looked at the cash price of each ticket in every fare class over a period of 12 months, and also the number of FF points required by each FF program to redeem on every flight on every other Oneworld carrier. I know you're thinking - wow this guy is nuts (yes - Red Bull is my friend).
There is incredible data that came from all of this and all frequent flyer programs would do similar modelling to validate their market positioning etc. This is one reason why some programs (DL, UA) can move to a revenue based (instead of mileage based) program because it makes it more difficult for competitors to reverse engineer the program effectively. (For a fun read: here is part of my analysis for the American Airlines portion pre-devaluation last week; Oneworld Frequent Flyer Analysis by flyora - American Airlines AAdvantage )

Anyway - right now Asia Miles (the currency of CX miles) are one of the most valuable Oneworld currencies. You can earn them at 1:1 from many Australian credit cards, but they go further and are worth more than QFF points. The kicker is you can use them on Qantas flights just like you would Qantas points!
For example:
SYD-HKG-SYD on CX biz class: 80K Asia Miles + tax
SYD-HKG-SYD on QF biz class: 120K QFF points + tax

There's many factors to consider when changing FF programs and I'm not sure switching purely because you want something new is the most logical rationale - however if you frequently travel to Asia then the Marco Polo program can provide a solid experience you won't find in other programs. There are downsides like no soft landing, 3 year points expiry....but I'll leave that for another post.

(P.S. Sorry to all reading this – it's quite the essay!)

Thank you for this! You really are incredibly knowledgable – shame I missed you in HKG last time!

For me, it's not so much about comparisons to QF, but more to SQ who I would be switching my status over to if not CX. I'm already sold on the points value of Asia Miles, and with ANZ Rewards, have a decent way of earning them beyond flying.

The jury is out on switching loyalty over completely, but you're selling it well! CX's other (surprisingly generous) benefit is lounge access with Silver, which I should be able to earn pretty quickly (if they don't match my existing status). Obviously this makes moving up the status ladder much more comfortable.

Currently, 90% of my current WP status is earned through SQ, so domestic isn't much of a factor. With VA's pricing and with our rather competitive dom market, I would have no issue switching my domestic flying to QF and using my CX status there instead of VA.

How about CX Golds? I'd imagine the Marco Polo changes will dramatically reduce the number of status fliers – probably meaning more accidental status holders, and as you say, less manufactured status holders. Do you think this will improve the treatment of the lower status tiers as they become a smaller pool?

It's interesting what you say about their brand. As someone who works (dabbles?) in branding, I still find myself sucked in to some good marketing and love where they're positioning themselves. The image they're creating is incredibly appealing which I applaud them on. It's possibly SQ's biggest weakness – the image they have created is a premium one, but not particularly modern or progressive. Of course, you could say this is all quite superficial, but when that identity is informing lounge and cabin designs, the way the airline sees itself can have a huge impact on the pax's travel experience. So for that reason, I'm excited by where CX is heading and wouldn't mind seeing where it goes.

There's admittedly nothing rational about my thought patterns, so changing FF programs is as much a heart decision as it is head. I've spent a lot of time in SIN over the past few years – connecting, stopping over and as a destination – and I'm after something new beyond just the FF program. The hub (and the city it's in), the lounges, the reservations staff and the ground experience make up so much of the travel process, and I'm really just ready for something new.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

(P.S. Sorry to all reading this – it's quite the essay!)

Thank you for this! You really are incredibly knowledgable – shame I missed you in HKG last time!

For me, it's not so much about comparisons to QF, but more to SQ who I would be switching my status over to if not CX. I'm already sold on the points value of Asia Miles, and with ANZ Rewards, have a decent way of earning them beyond flying.

The jury is out on switching loyalty over completely, but you're selling it well! CX's other (surprisingly generous) benefit is lounge access with Silver, which I should be able to earn pretty quickly (if they don't match my existing status). Obviously this makes moving up the status ladder much more comfortable.

Currently, 90% of my current WP status is earned through SQ, so domestic isn't much of a factor. With VA's pricing and with our rather competitive dom market, I would have no issue switching my domestic flying to QF and using my CX status there instead of VA.

How about CX Golds? I'd imagine the Marco Polo changes will dramatically reduce the number of status fliers – probably meaning more accidental status holders, and as you say, less manufactured status holders. Do you think this will improve the treatment of the lower status tiers as they become a smaller pool?

It's interesting what you say about their brand. As someone who works (dabbles?) in branding, I still find myself sucked in to some good marketing and love where they're positioning themselves. The image they're creating is incredibly appealing which I applaud them on. It's possibly SQ's biggest weakness – the image they have created is a premium one, but not particularly modern or progressive. Of course, you could say this is all quite superficial, but when that identity is informing lounge and cabin designs, the way the airline sees itself can have a huge impact on the pax's travel experience. So for that reason, I'm excited by where CX is heading and wouldn't mind seeing where it goes.

There's admittedly nothing rational about my thought patterns, so changing FF programs is as much a heart decision as it is head. I've spent a lot of time in SIN over the past few years – connecting, stopping over and as a destination – and I'm after something new beyond just the FF program. The hub (and the city it's in), the lounges, the reservations staff and the ground experience make up so much of the travel process, and I'm really just ready for something new.

There are others who use the KrisFlyer program to teh max. I'm a basic member who filters CC points and redeems for biz/first class tickets. Status wouldn't mean a lot to me on SQ - but I'm also not paying cash for tickets.

Back in CX'ville - theres's multiple reports that QF Plats are treated very well with upgrades on CX. The interesting part of this is QF Plat is not high on the upgrade list.
CX upgrade list works like this:

Invitation
Diamond Plus
Diamond
Staff Duty Travel
CX Gold
Priority 25 Staff travel
Oneworld Emerald
CX Silver
Oneworld Sapphire
Oneworld Ruby
Marco Polo Green

So if Qantas Plats (Oneworld Emerald) report loads of upgrades - you could expect CX Gold/Diamond to receive even more. Especially on non-core segments (ie: not SIN/HKG etc)
Diamond Plus is essentially the unpublished `Platinum One` of CX and treatment is top-notch. It all starts with the little things - like a personalised welcome note on every flight: http://bit.ly/1V3FQSy

On the KrisFlyer side - I've never heard of any PPS members receiving free upgrades. Others may have different experiences.

As VA Plat - you can hit up Marco Polo for a status match but you'll likely be offered Silver or maybe Gold if you can prove flight activity that could be shifted to CX. Having existing CX bookings will help too. Unfortunately you'll get some junior intern who processes your request and they won't care about anything except for your spend on flights. I would inform VA you about your pending status match too. Watch them go crazy and hard-ball you like they don't care. It will reaffirm you're making the right move to switch.

You would have difficulty trying to status match from QF -> CX because Oneworld agreements prohibit customer poaching. Since you're VA it should be easier.
CX Silver does come with lounge access, so it's not bad. Also the new CX earning table is almost identical to QF status credit earning for easy understanding.

I could go on and on... but it still depends what you value the most in a FF program

 

[Isochronous]

It is also worth mentioning with the SYD-HKG-SYD J redemption example, AM is 80k plus tax whether you choose the CX or QF flight. Whereas QFF charges 120k for QF and 130k for CX metal.

 

[JohnK]

Anyway - right now Asia Miles (the currency of CX miles) are one of the most valuable Oneworld currencies. You can earn them at 1:1 from many Australian credit cards, but they go further and are worth more than QFF points. The kicker is you can use them on Qantas flights just like you would Qantas points!
For example:
SYD-HKG-SYD on CX biz class: 80K Asia Miles + tax
SYD-HKG-SYD on QF biz class: 120K QFF points + tax

Fantastic if you need to go to HKG. A shame if you need to go to BKK or SIN.

As you say there are always some anomalies in all frequent flyer programs.

 

[wandering_fred]

Yes the April changes on MPO are going to affect the Y/PEY/IntraAsia travelers in the quest for qualification. Having said that CMB and JNB are still very good locations for obtaining the best value on qualification flights (JNB-HKG-USA comes to mind). This may be my last year requalifying as a OW Sapphire :-(.

And I will agree that CX treats their elite members very well.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[leyy]

Sorry to get off topic, but was hoping someone could point me in the right direction? (trippin_the_rift) seems to be the expert in asia miles.

Given the recent devaluations on major banks credit cards for SQ/VA, I am finding that asia miles may be better value for miles redemption.

Is there any further details that does a detailed analysis on SQ vs AM, in terms of availability, taxes and redemption value. I earn most of my miles via CC spend and purchase biz/first class tickets to asia with the occasional europe/usa.


Cheers,
leyy

 

[Archphoto]

I requested a status match a couple of years back and MP Club got back to me requesting details of previous flight history with QF and planned flights with CX for the current year.

They reviewed and stated that they would he happy to status match me as soon as I booked the relevant flights with them. Wish I'd done when I was Platinum, but the MPS match was great - especially with the lounge access component!

Will see how the new program affects me - but for now, CX is much better for my current situation (based in Asia).

 

[Fiches Mouser]

I requested a status match a couple of years back and MP Club got back to me requesting details of previous flight history with QF and planned flights with CX for the current year.

They reviewed and stated that they would he happy to status match me as soon as I booked the relevant flights with them. Wish I'd done when I was Platinum, but the MPS match was great - especially with the lounge access component!

Will see how the new program affects me - but for now, CX is much better for my current situation (based in Asia).

Thanks for sharing Archphoto. They seem pretty smart about how they handle status matches, keeping them pretty strict.

I've already booked a return J trip, and have a number more to book in the next couple of months, so hoping that gives me a leg up.

Did they match you QF Gold-for-CX Gold?

 

[Archphoto]

Thanks for sharing Archphoto. They seem pretty smart about how they handle status matches, keeping them pretty strict.

I've already booked a return J trip, and have a number more to book in the next couple of months, so hoping that gives me a leg up.

Did they match you QF Gold-for-CX Gold?

I was actually QF Silver but they matched like-for-like. (Wishing I'd done it back when I was Platinum, but didn't cross my mind - yes, stupid I know.) They were prompt and courteous - their requirement requests were fair and I have been treated well since changing my allegiance.

If you mention that you've already booked the J flight and that you'll be booking more in the next couple of months, could be a plus for you when asking for a (possible) status match.

Give it a whirl - might not come to anything, but if you don't try, you'll never know. Good luck!!

 

[yohy?!]

things that impressed me about CX during my couple of years based in HKG and MPC Gold:

1- op-ups (frequent on both short and long haul)
2- redemption rates & taxes
3- waitlisting awards / placing itineraries on hold by phone
4- no service charges for the call centre to touch your booking
5- free exit rows
6- status matches for new arrivals

being back in syd now i switched back to qf as my main program but still pine for the HKG lounges and miss the CX service.

 

[Fiches Mouser]

Speaking of status matches, I've had a response to my enquiry. As expected, they handle it with care – no freebies at CX! It's actually great, and to be honest, don't mind if it's not granted as I should be able to get there on my own. Just have to fly J for a while so I don't miss the all the mod cons

If it interests anyone, here's what they ask for:

Dear mrsmart

Thank you for contacting The Marco Polo Club Service Centre and for providing us the attached information.

We are delighted to hear of your positive feedback regarding our service and would be happy to review your tier status eligibility.

You may find it helpful to know that a tier status is not directly transferred. We review tier status eligibility based on a variety of factors of which your past and future travel activities on Cathay Pacific/Dragonair are of particular importance.

Therefore, in addition to the information we have already been provided with, we would appreciate it if you could send us the following information as ‘.jpg’, ‘.bmp’ or ‘.tif’ files with a total file size of less than 4 MB in a return email if you would like us to review your tier eligibility:

- 10-digit Asia Miles membership number. Asia Miles is the currency for flight or other lifestyle award redemptions

- Copies of boarding passes or travel dates and flight numbers of the flights you have taken with Cathay Pacific or Dragonair within the last 12 months, if available

- Booking references for your future travel schedule on Cathay Pacific/Dragonair. Before you make reservations, you may wish to check which fare classes you can earn with at Online Flight Booking | Airfare | United States - Cathay Pacific, "Marco Polo Club", "Changes to Marco Polo", "Earning points".

In addition to the above, it may be helpful to know that to help credit qualifying transactions to your account whenever your membership number is provided, it is important to keep your profile membership name exactly matches your transaction name, which should be the FULL name shown on your passport. This will also help to avoid unnecessary inconvenience during immigration clearance.

If you have enrolled with Asia Miles or The Marco Polo Club not with your full passport name, we would be happy to update your profile for you. However, we would be grateful if you could provide us a copy of your passport in a return email for security verification purposes.

We appreciate your support for Cathay Pacific and are looking forward to hearing from you again with the requested information, mrsmart.

Kind regards

[Agent Name]
Customer Relations Executive
Membership Administration
The Marco Polo Club Service Centre

 

[Pleb Status]

I have been very happy with service received by CX in the past as a QF WP/P1 in all classes of travel (Y/J/F). I would say that it was far better than on QF as a QF elite. CX is one of the few airlines that even acknowledges their partner elite members. I have received more Op Ups on CX than on QFi.

However, with four flights a day ex PER, SQ cannot be beaten for convenience to South Asia and beyond. Too bad that VA WP are invisible to SQ, but I do not think they treat KF Gold travelling in Y that well anyway.

 

[casanovawa]

Hmmm, as an AA ExPlat, maybe might have to give CX a try for some flights see what happens...

As for ANZ rewards unfortunately they only transfer to AM on a 1:3 basis...

 

[Fiches Mouser]

I have been very happy with service received by CX in the past as a QF WP/P1 in all classes of travel (Y/J/F). I would say that it was far better than on QF as a QF elite. CX is one of the few airlines that even acknowledges their partner elite members. I have received more Op Ups on CX than on QFi.

However, with four flights a day ex PER, SQ cannot be beaten for convenience to South Asia and beyond. Too bad that VA WP are invisible to SQ, but I do not think they treat KF Gold travelling in Y that well anyway.

How do they acknowledge you as P1? Is it in line with, what is it, Diamond Plus?

Hmmm, as an AA ExPlat, maybe might have to give CX a try for some flights see what happens...

As for ANZ rewards unfortunately they only transfer to AM on a 1:3 basis...

Yep 3ANZ:1AM. But if you're earning at 3pt/$ with a Black AMEX it works out 1AM/$ which isn't terrible. Just a shame about the ATO thing.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I have been very happy with service received by CX in the past as a QF WP/P1 in all classes of travel (Y/J/F). I would say that it was far better than on QF as a QF elite. CX is one of the few airlines that even acknowledges their partner elite members. I have received more Op Ups on CX than on QFi.

Put into perspective - your QF P1 status would have similar onboard treatment as a CX Gold (which requires 6x less flying to achieve than P1).
I would put Diamond treatment at somewhere between P1 and CL.

Hmmm, as an AA ExPlat, maybe might have to give CX a try for some flights see what happens...

As for ANZ rewards unfortunately they only transfer to AM on a 1:3 basis...

Time for a new credit card...