Feet and shoes on Bulkhead?

[JohnK]

Some courtesy for the other human beings around you is too much to ask?

Society's standards continue to drop to the lowest common denominator?

 

[timster]

I would suggest that my clinical microbiology is as good as that of those two researchers, and I have no worries about EHEC or MRSA from planes or any other non-medical object.

Turning this into an academic pissing competition in a FF forum is a waste of time. But do take up your concerns with the authors of this US-federally funded 2 year study and the American Society of Microbiology if you wish. I too have many research publications and am well aware of the standing of scientific conference abstracts (in this case chosen for primary press release by the ASM, ie from one of the largest international microbiology research conferences).

However if you want the material from the underside of this woman's shoes on your hands and in your mouth, then you are welcome to it.

On a related note, on 4 recent long hauls in Y on TG, hot towels were handed out before every meal. I can't recall how many years it is since I've had a hot towel on QFi. Yet another long-gone "enhancement".

 

[Cynicor]

Turning this into an academic pissing competition in a FF forum is a waste of time. But do take up your concerns with the authors of this US-federally funded 2 year study and the American Society of Microbiology if you wish. I too have many research publications and am well aware of the standing of scientific conference abstracts (in this case chosen for primary press release by the ASM, ie from one of the largest international microbiology research conferences).

However if you want the material from the underside of this woman's shoes on your hands and in your mouth, then you are welcome to it.

I think you missed the points I was trying to make with that which are that they are not clin micros, and that the end result of their study has no real current clinical relevance. I am not a clin micro either, and so see no need for a pissing contest.

 

[Lonely Flyer]

I agree with you 150%. I was sick for 3 of the 4 weeks in USA with some virus which I believe I got on a UA flight. Wipes and masks now when I do domestic in USA.

 

[timster]

I think you missed the points I was trying to make with that which are that they are not clin micros, and that the end result of their study has no real current clinical relevance. I am not a clin micro either, and so see no need for a pissing contest.

E. coli O157:H7 was one of the two pathogens studied (as mentioned in my post). This is the Mayo Clinic's assessment of its risk ...
E. coli Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
"... nasty strains, such as E. coli O157:H7, can cause severe abdominal cramps, bloody diarrhea and vomiting. ... Healthy adults usually recover from infection with E. coli O157:H7 within a week, but young children and older adults can develop a life-threatening form of kidney failure called hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). "

While there are different types of E.Coli*, it is common on shoes ...
Study Reveals High Bacteria Levels on Footwear - Article - CIRIscience.org

As the ASM study showed, if it gets on an airplane surface, it persists for days.

We could perhaps end with the author's comment:
"The point of this study is not to be alarmist, but to point out to the airlines the importance of providing a sanitary environment for travelers," said professor Jim Barbaree, director of the study."
http://ocm.auburn.edu/featured_story/airliner.ht

* note just to be clear this particular clarification was added before Cynicor's correct clarification of my original statement below, not after. After all, this isn't a pissing contest.

 

[Jousams]

Oh god Lol.
I do this all the time.
Might give it a second thought now.

 

[Cynicor]

E. coli O157:H7 was one of the two pathogens studied (as mentioned in my post). This is the Mayo Clinic's assessment of its risk ...
E. coli Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
"... nasty strains, such as E. coli O157:H7, can cause severe abdominal cramps, bloody diarrhea and vomiting. ... Healthy adults usually recover from infection with E. coli O157:H7 within a week, but young children and older adults can develop a life-threatening form of kidney failure called hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). "

E.Coli is common on shoes ...
Study Reveals High Bacteria Levels on Footwear - Article - CIRIscience.org

Not all E. Coli are created equal.

I know EHEC is pathogenic, as is MRSA. But ebola causes death and bloody diarrhoea and we don't study that on airplanes. It comes down to clinical context and likelihood of exposure. ETEC (another form of E. Coli) would be better to investigate because of how common it is, especially in travellers.
Any when you say E.Coli is common on shoes, there are a massive number of groups of E.Coli. They are common everywhere, including as gut commensals.

Bacteria are everywhere and we have evolved protective barriers to deal with them. At the same time, unnecessary exposure could be dangerous and so hand washing etc. is encouraged. But at the end of the day, I don't feel that this study adds very much at all to the actual likelihood of getting a disease from a magazine holder.

And we are now very off topic.

Edit- realised it may be my terminology. Pathogenic- disease causing. Clinically relevant- capable of causing disease in the current context (fomite spread, more or less) and in numbers that matter to public health, as opposed to potential transmission or only several cases per year.

 

[wingspan]

Edit- the other is an associate director for research, and has a PhD. I think it likely that his name ends up on lots of papers which he supervises only minimally or assists in some vague way, otherwise he would be lead author, especially as his name is alphabetically first.

OTT for a moment, but that's not how authorship works. For a conference paper such as the one in question, the lead author is usually the one presenting the paper at the event. And even for a peer-reviewed journal article, authorship isn't determined alphabetically.

View attachment 29070

Well actually i think it was more the socks after the sneakers came off.
It was QF flight so I picked this thread, sorry if it's posted in the wrong spot..

Just because you can take creepy photos of others without their knowledge, doesn't make it any less creepy!

 

[legroom]

Folks

Forget germs !

The very sight of this is a turn off for me already.

It's a common, confined public space - not your private lounge.

The dirt alone is not welcome, let alone any added hangers on like germs.

I had removed my qualifications so no pissing contest from me !

 

[drivatruk]

Just because you can take creepy photos of others without their knowledge, doesn't make it any less creepy![/QUOTE]

It's a foot on a wall. The only way that could be creepy is if i had a foot fetish.

 

[wingspan]

It's a foot on a wall. The only way that could be creepy is if i had a foot fetish.

It's a photo of someone that you've then gone on to make comments about their socks. I'm not suggesting you have any sexual feelings towards the feet or not. Regardless of whether you do, it's still creepy to take a photo like that. I know it's completely legal - and I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. Just that you've done something creepy.

 

[legroom]

It's a photo of someone that you've then gone on to make comments about their socks. I'm not suggesting you have any sexual feelings towards the feet or not. Regardless of whether you do, it's still creepy to take a photo like that. I know it's completely legal - and I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. Just that you've done something creepy.

I disagree, sorry.

I assume he was disgusted / upset seeing that scene and wished to make some comment on AFF later on.

It was anonymous.

It was de-identified.

It is fitting for this discussion.

And he already said he is not into feet fetishes.

So, I cannot see why it is creepy.

My 2c !

 

[burmans]

It's a foot on a wall. The only way that could be creepy is if i had a foot fetish.

And you don't? Sure sounds like one to me.

 

[Rebekkap]

Some courtesy for the other human beings around you is too much to ask?

Society's standards continue to drop to the lowest common denominator?

I really don't see how it's possible to read someone else putting their feet up nowhere near you as discourteous. I don't think you should put your feet up anywhere with shoes on, but with socks on, I don't see how it affects you or anyone else.

Nor do I think that relaxing some of the more ridiculous rules of etiquette that constrained people and kept class barriers rigidly enforced is a bad thing, or indeed catering to whatever you happen to think the lowest common denominator is.

I try not to act in ways that have an adverse effect on other people - that's what I was taught the basis of good manners is. So I would never sneeze on someone, or recline into them while they were eating, or push in front of someone in a queue. And I try to keep public grossness to a minimum because I don't want to upset people. But honestly, if the sight of someone trying to get comfortable on a long flight in Y offends you, when what they're doing has absolutely no effect whatsoever on you, then that's your problem, not theirs, and it has nothing to courtesy.

 

[Moody]

I really don't see how it's possible to read someone else putting their feet up nowhere near you as discourteous. I don't think you should put your feet up anywhere with shoes on, but with socks on, I don't see how it affects you or anyone else.

Nor do I think that relaxing some of the more ridiculous rules of etiquette that constrained people and kept class barriers rigidly enforced is a bad thing, or indeed catering to whatever you happen to think the lowest common denominator is.

I try not to act in ways that have an adverse effect on other people - that's what I was taught the basis of good manners is. So I would never sneeze on someone, or recline into them while they were eating, or push in front of someone in a queue. And I try to keep public grossness to a minimum because I don't want to upset people. But honestly, if the sight of someone trying to get comfortable on a long flight in Y offends you, when what they're doing has absolutely no effect whatsoever on you, then that's your problem, not theirs, and it has nothing to courtesy.

It sounds like you're desparately trying to deny the arrogance factor. It's not working.

Maybe if you could find a physiotherapist who recommended this position, then you could get some credibility back and I would have to eat my hat!

 

[Mark3000]

It sounds like you're desparately trying to deny the arrogance factor. It's not working.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? We're all friends here
I don't think she's arrogant, she'd just be sitting there relaxing, minding her business.
If anything, wouldn't the guy across from her getting all snooty about her socks on the wall be the arrogant one, by trying to make her conform with his expectations, when it really isn't hurting him at all.

 

[Rebekkap]

It sounds like you're desparately trying to deny the arrogance factor. It's not working.

Maybe if you could find a physiotherapist who recommended this position, then you could get some credibility back and I would have to eat my hat!

That's quite the bizarre attitude you've got going on there. I don't think anyone who knows me would ever accuse me of being arrogant, nor am I so worried about what you think that I'd "desperately" try to deny anything!

I'm currently sitting on my couch at home with my feet up - I haven't asked a physio about that either, but I can assure you it's very comfortable (and I have the curtains closed, FYI, so the neighbours won't think I'm arrogant if they see me with my feet up!)

 

[Rebekkap]

That's a bit harsh isn't it? We're all friends here
I don't think she's arrogant, she'd just be sitting there relaxing, minding her business.
If anything, wouldn't the guy across from her getting all snooty about her socks on the wall be the arrogant one, by trying to make her conform with his expectations, when it really isn't hurting him at all.

thanks Mark

I definitely agree - it's a touch arrogant to think your own standards should be universally applied ;-)

 

[drivatruk]

That's a bit harsh isn't it? We're all friends here
I don't think she's arrogant, she'd just be sitting there relaxing, minding her business.
If anything, wouldn't the guy across from her getting all snooty about her socks on the wall be the arrogant one, by trying to make her conform with his expectations, when it really isn't hurting him at all.

She was with her Husband...

 

[burmans]

It sounds like you're desparately trying to deny the arrogance factor. It's not working.

Maybe if you could find a physiotherapist who recommended this position, then you could get some credibility back and I would have to eat my hat!

Spot the irony, you think she should be behaving in the manner you believe is correct and are quite adamant in insisting on her behaving as you expect, but you accuse her of arrogance. Interesting view on arrogance!