Extending ticket validity - travelling >12 months after first segment

[Kangol]

I'm aware of the common industry practice that tickets are valid until 12 months of the first segment of travel. ie. you cannot travel at a date greater than 12 months from the first segment, regardless of conditions.

However, in the QF T&Cs it says this:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/conditions-carriage-full/global/en

6.2 Ticket Validity Period
Your Ticket will be valid for 12 months from the date of commencement of travel or if no part of the Ticket is used, for 12 months after the date first issued, unless the fare rules provide otherwise.

My emphasis underlined - what type of fare rules "provide otherwise"?

I'm looking at fare conditions for F fares to/from Europe, ie QF services to/from LHR, which shows this:

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: col colResults colLabel"]FLIGHT APPLICATION[/TD]
[TD="class: col colResults colDescription"] NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col colResults colLabel"]ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING[/TD]
[TD="class: col colResults colDescription"] ORIGINATING AUSTRALIA -
WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 35 DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 30
DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 30 DAYS
BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
OR - WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 8 DAYS
BEFORE DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED AT
LEAST 5 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
OR - WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 4 DAYS
BEFORE DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED AT
LEAST 3 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
OR - WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 1 DAY BEFORE
DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED AT LEAST
1 DAY BEFORE DEPARTURE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
OR - WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE THE DAY OF DEPARTURE,
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED THE DAY OF
DEPARTURE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
WHERE MULTIPLE OPTIONS ARE SHOWN EACH LINE SHOULD
BE READ AS A TOTAL RES/TICKETING CONDITION AND
INTERPRETED TO MEAN -
- WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE X-DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE THEN TICKETING IS REQUIRED Y-DAYS AFTER
RESERVATION OR Z-DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER
IS EARLIER -
TICKETING DEADLINE PER CAT15-SALES RESTRICTION
MUST BE COMPLIED WITH.
ORIGINATING EUROPE -
WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 8 DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE, TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED AT LEAST 5
DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
OR - TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col colResults colLabel"]MINIMUM STAY[/TD]
[TD="class: col colResults colDescription"] NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col colResults colLabel"]MAXIMUM STAY[/TD]
[TD="class: col colResults colDescription"] NO MAXIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #DCE8EC"]
[TD="class: col colResults colLabel"]STOPOVERS[/TD]
[TD="class: col colResults colDescription"] UNLIMITED FREE STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING
UNIT.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


My emphasis in bold - what does "open returns permitted" mean? That your return can be greater than 12 months after the commencement of travel? ie. this is an example of the "fare rules providing otherwise" in 6.2 above?

I have a multi segment FASA and have flown the first domestic add-on leg a few weeks ago. I rang to add another segment and they say it can only be done within 12 months of that first segment (the date I had in mind was greater than 12 months).
So, if I pick a date within the 12 month time frame, is it possible to exchange (ie keep the same ticket number) for a date >12 months from the commencement of travel? Thereby getting around the 12 month rule....

Obviously this is somewhat of an exceptional circumstance but if there are open returns and unlimited free stopovers, you could add on many domestic legs or even international legs and keep the cycle going because there are "open returns permitted"?!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I suspect 'unless fare rules provide otherwise' would be a restriction rather than a 'benefit'. So the fare rules might provide (for example) that you cannot change the dates on your ticket, or example might be the fare is time limited (for example all travel must be completed by 9 December).

IIRC... 'open return' means you can ticket without having a set return date. You'd call the airline to advise them of your intended date at a later stage. I suppose people might still do that - but I guess a lot of people would have a date in the ticket and then change it if they needed to.

 

[opusman]

I think "open return" simply means you can book and ticket the outward leg of the journey without having a booking for the return leg. The return booking would still have to comply with other fare rules including maximum validity date.

Someone like ozbeachbabe can probably provide more details

 

[Kangol]

Thanks. Yes OBB can you comment if you see this? Or anyone who has worked in res?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'm aware of the common industry practice that tickets are valid until 12 months of the first segment of travel. ie. you cannot travel at a date greater than 12 months from the first segment, regardless of conditions.

My emphasis in bold - what does "open returns permitted" mean? That your return can be greater than 12 months after the commencement of travel? ie. this is an example of the "fare rules providing otherwise" in 6.2 above?

It's been ages since I've had anything to do with the sale of tickets but my understanding is that an "open return" is still subject to the maximum stay conditions on the fare of 12 months.

I'd never recommend having an ooen dated return because it's impossible to predict when the seats for the dates you want are going to sell out.

For that reason I'd always recommend booking tentative dates for the return maybe a few days prior to the 12 month deadline then you can always change the dates to earlier if need be.

I have a multi segment FASA and have flown the first domestic add-on leg a few weeks ago. I rang to add another segment and they say it can only be done within 12 months of that first segment (the date I had in mind was greater than 12 months).

So, if I pick a date within the 12 month time frame, is it possible to exchange (ie keep the same ticket number) for a date >12 months from the commencement of travel? Thereby getting around the 12 month rule....

I'd double check whether the 12 months starts after the first flight which was domestic leg or first international sector.

Possibly one exception in the past may have been if travelling economy (which is seasonal) that if you had a flight SYD/MEL in Jul (high season to Europe) then MEL/LHR in Nov (low season) you may have got 12 months from Nov as the date of the first international departure determined the season of the fare to be charged.

So you've booked a return FASA with an open dated return? You wouldn't be able to keep the same ticket number if the routing changes as your old ticket would need to be exchanged for a new one but the original date of expiry on the original ticket would carry forward to the new ticket.

Obviously this is somewhat of an exceptional circumstance but if there are open returns and unlimited free stopovers, you could add on many domestic legs or even international legs and keep the cycle going because there are "open returns permitted"?!

There would be a limit somewhere as to the amount of domestic sectors or transfers you can have otherwise people could book SYD/MEL/SYD/MEL/SYD/LHR etc which isn't permitted.

 

[Kangol]

Thanks. I've booked two one way FASAs to/from LHR. Trying to add on "return" international legs and pushing them out however the 12 month rule is making it difficult with dates that I want to travel.

On one of them I've added a fair few domestic legs in J. More than in your example. The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and "unlimited transfers permitted" so I guess that is within the rules, given that it has been ticketed several times.
I rang up to query and price a LHR return leg to add to one of the one way FASAs and on one of the calls, one guy said that adding several domestic legs isn't permitted. My interpretation of the fare rules indicates otherwise. Come to think of it, a supervisor was supposed to ring me back .. will need to follow it up soon.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks. I've booked two one way FASAs to/from LHR. Trying to add on "return" international legs and pushing them out however the 12 month rule is making it difficult with dates that I want to travel.

On one of them I've added a fair few domestic legs in J. More than in your example. The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and "unlimited transfers permitted" so I guess that is within the rules, given that it has been ticketed several times.
I rang up to query and price a LHR return leg to add to one of the one way FASAs and on one of the calls, one guy said that adding several domestic legs isn't permitted. My interpretation of the fare rules indicates otherwise. Come to think of it, a supervisor was supposed to ring me back .. will need to follow it up soon.

unlimited transfers and unlimited free stopovers need to be read in the context of the fare, its rules, and any routing restriction or mileage limits.

some fares allow no stopovers, some allow one or two (etc). Where it says unlimited stopovers, it means you can stopover at any point on the route... but the route must be an approved one. For example on Qantas you might route PER-ADL-SYD-DXB-LHR. you could stop at any one of those cities along the way, for no extra charge to the fare.

without knowing the the exact route you are flying, or the additional legs/transfes/stop overs you want to add, it's a little hard to advise you. This is because the fare rules can have a different effect depending on what you're trying to do.

your comment about domestic sectors illustrates the point... OBB was making it clear you couldn't add multiple SYD-MEL-SYD sectors. This would be correct, because you can't normally can't transit back through your point of origin on multiple occasions. this has nothing to do with the number of domestic sectors, but rather the route.

so just because you might have added multiple domestics previously, and think that that is within the fare rules, in another example it might be entirely outside the fare rules.

the qantas rep might be correct that you can't add domestic sectors in this particular case... it hard to tell without knowing all the details.

 

[Kangol]

An update:
Spoke to a supervisor about adding a "return" FASA. I guess we were lucky with add-on domestic segments at cheap rates because they were never supposed to be made after the ASAs in PUZX class were pulled, but the ones done are still honoured.
So the answer is no - the system won't allow making changes to the ASAs now and the topic of extending the ticket >12 months is not relevant. Apparently the staff who did make them were "given feedback" that they shouldn't have done them in the first place (!!).

FWIW this is the one I'm referring to.
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....e-had-success-call-51720-385.html#post1249859