AA and VX set to launch WiFi Internet on flights from July

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dot

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Well - to be more correct, AA will be adding the service on it's 767 fleet from New York (not sure if it is all airports ) to MIA, SFO and LAX. VX will be launching their service sometime after that. The service will be called Gogo (I wonder if they need to borrow an ad campaign from Oz? G..O..G..O, no, it's not the Dart, they always think it's the Dart....:lol:) from a company called Aircell. This short video from the Wall Street Journal explains it well.

Dow Jones Single Title Player (No Content)

I have written TR entries mid flight, but never posted them - I guess the race will be on to be the first to post a TR from mid way between LAX and JKF!
 
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I have written TR entries mid flight, but never posted them - I guess the race will be on to be the first to post a TR from mid way between LAX and JKF!

Love to try this one on, but can't see myself getting an opportunity until Sep when I fly to LAS. I may just take a VX flight from SFO if it is so equipped. Of course, the better-half will be less than impressed when told of the reason for me to take that flight instead of the WN one from SJC. :)

mt
 
Wonder what they will charge? Will it be just the left nut or the whole reproduction system?

Secondly, would this mean that they will need to provide some sort of power points in the seats to power said laptops? Or are we going to have to all purchase Sony Vaio TX's or external power packs?
 
Wonder what they will charge? Will it be just the left nut or the whole reproduction system?
AA are going to charge US$12.95 for 3+ Hour flights and US$9.95 for less than 3 hour flights.

Secondly, would this mean that they will need to provide some sort of power points in the seats to power said laptops? Or are we going to have to all purchase Sony Vaio TX's or external power packs?
Well, my T61P will get 4.5 hours, so I would get most of the flight without external power. Aside from that AA767s have seat power in all J and F seats and in select Y seats. VX already have seat power in every seat.
 
I can't wait to see 'live complaint' threads on Flyertalk. Something like:

"I'm currently in F on AA98 and the FA just handed out the nuts. There are no pecans, and it was cold. What compensation should I ask her for?"


Still, it is a good idea as long as VOIP is sufficiently neutered or blocked.
 
Wow six wholes posts before the phones on aircraft comments arrived... :rolleyes:

I think this is great and pretty reasonable value. Just have to wonder if they will block torrent sites/ports - miss the latest ep of Lost whilst travelling - download it in flight and watch it ;)
 
Wow six wholes posts before the phones on aircraft comments arrived... :rolleyes:

i wasn't going to go there after last time!

I think this is great and pretty reasonable value. Just have to wonder if they will block torrent sites/ports - miss the latest ep of Lost whilst travelling - download it in flight and watch it ;)

I would imagine that it would be speed limited, even if it was a megabit connection shared by a few people on the plane, and at $13 it would be a fair few, it would be slowed. What it the best speed you could get, i would imagine about 1.5 megabits but i have no idea what i base that on...
 
i wasn't going to go there after last time!

I would imagine that it would be speed limited, even if it was a megabit connection shared by a few people on the plane, and at $13 it would be a fair few, it would be slowed. What it the best speed you could get, i would imagine about 1.5 megabits but i have no idea what i base that on...

Well they have 3MHz of spectrum allocated for the link, so if they use a half decent modulation scheme, they should be able to around 2-3bit/Hz. Half that for usual losses due to FEC, noise, channel spacing etc. So 4-5Mbit a link would not be unreasonable. I assume they have separate up and down links, so I reckon performance would be on par with a regular ADSL connection shared amongst 30 or so people.
Latency would suck, so no playing CounterStrike at 35000ft unfortunately.

mt
 
Well they have 3MHz of spectrum allocated for the link, so if they use a half decent modulation scheme, they should be able to around 2-3bit/Hz. Half that for usual losses due to FEC, noise, channel spacing etc. So 4-5Mbit a link would not be unreasonable. I assume they have separate up and down links, so I reckon performance would be on par with a regular ADSL connection shared amongst 30 or so people.
Latency would suck, so no playing CounterStrike at 35000ft unfortunately.

mt
After quite a bit of searching, the only reference on either the Aircell (targeted at Airlines) or the Gogo (targeted at pax) sites that mentions speed is the following short quote from the Gogo site:
Gogo’s speed in the air is similar to DSL speed on the ground, with speeds of 128 Kbps or better.
It does not say if that is per user or shared - hopefully per user.

I agree that latency will be relatively high, but I wouldnt expect it to be much worse than a current 3G (UMTS) connection as the link from the aircraft is directly to the ground rather than via a satellite like Connexions by Boeing was. Hopefully, the Aircell groundstations and network connections have been well designed to minimise latency for pax.
 
It does not say if that is per user or shared - hopefully per user.

I agree that latency will be relatively high, but I wouldnt expect it to be much worse than a current 3G (UMTS) connection as the link from the aircraft is directly to the ground rather than via a satellite like Connexions by Boeing was. Hopefully, the Aircell groundstations and network connections have been well designed to minimise latency for pax.

I suspect the 128kbit/s is per user. From AirCell:
Aircell - Aircell to Demonstrate Broadband Air-to-Ground Network and Wireless Cabin in Flight

"The link will utilize a limited number of ground cellular sites temporarily outfitted with special antennas and electronics under Aircell's experimental license from the FCC. The technology employed will provide a "to-the-seat" user experience that averages 300 to 500 kbps, with peak speeds of 3.1 Mbps"

Interestingly, they are using the same spectrum that was used for the old Airfone. The modulation is also 'UMTS like' as it uses modified EV-DO chips from Qualcomm.
U.S. In-flight Broadband Is A-gogo by Spring - GigaOM

All-in-all, not a bad bit of engineering. Now let's see if they can make money from it.

mt
 
Still, it is a good idea as long as VOIP is sufficiently neutered or blocked.

There are ways around that - it will depend on how good the service is and what sort of latency people can expect as to whether it is usable for VoIP or gaming inflight.
 
There are ways around that - it will depend on how good the service is and what sort of latency people can expect as to whether it is usable for VoIP or gaming inflight.
How much latency would you expect? And how much (little) is ok for VoIP? What do you consider the upper limit for latency for usable VoIP?
 
How much latency would you expect? And how much (little) is ok for VoIP? What do you consider the upper limit for latency for usable VoIP?

Given I assume that it's a satellite-based connection, I would expect the latency to be high. Sattelite connections vary greatly in terms of their latency, but they're generally much higher than fixed broadband or even terrestrial wireless connections.

It does depend a little on the codec that you and your VSP (Voice Service Provider) use, however. The most common codecs used in Australia are g.711 (a-law and u-law), which is what the standard voice network now uses, and g.729, which is a slightly more compressed codec. g.711 is highly latency sensitive, and likely would fail outright. g.729 might work a little, but would likely suffer dropouts.

There is a little known codec called iLBC (internet low bitrate codec) which is designed for high latency connections, however, it's not well supported (I only know of MyNetFone supporting it at the moment, although I understand that Pennytel will do so shortly), which degrades much better over higher latency connections (it's more tolerant of voice packets arriving out of order over a data connection), but even if it works well, you will find that there's a long delay (you say hello, and you have to wait for them to receive it and then say hello back - and you may find that you end up talking over each other as the delay from you to them and them to you means that the conversation doesn't flow smoothly.

In other words, it's possible, but there are some unique challenges, and some pretty major compromises. If you're determined to have voice calls on an international flight and not mortgage your house, though, this would be doable.

Not that I'm advocating it - a plane full of chattering people would be painful!
 
Given I assume that it's a satellite-based connection, I would expect the latency to be high. Sattelite connections vary greatly in terms of their latency, but they're generally much higher than fixed broadband or even terrestrial wireless connections.
Actually, it is not via Satellite as Connexions was, it uses a set of 'cell' towers across the LOTFAP so the signal form the aircraft goes directly to those cell towers and then onto the Internet at that point (or possibly back to a central POP on Aircell's network). I would expect the latency to be similar to a conventional 3G (UMTS) connection (probably a bit poorer because the distance from the plane to the tower will typically be greater than the average mobile phone based connection). The connection looks like this:

WiFi Client --- WiFi Access Point --- Airborne Router --- Aircell Radio --- Aircell Tower --- Aircell Ground Network --- Router --- Internet

The problem with the Aircell system is that if you are not over the USA (including Alaska and Hawaii) you cannot connect. Connexions by Boeing got over this by using a satellite connection along with it's higher latency.

As for using a VoIP Softphone over the link, given they permit VPN connections, you could easily run your corporate VoIP connection through that VPN tunnel. Dont expect any of the public VoIP connections (Skype, Internet SIP services etc) to work. I have used my corporate VPN over a EDGE (128kbps) connection and successfully used the corporate VoIP over that link. There was a noticeable delay (say half a second) during the conversation and the occasional drop out (on the other end - I heard everything fine on my laptop). Despite this, I still would not expect hoards of people using VoIP in flight.
 
Given I assume that it's a satellite-based connection, I would expect the latency to be high. Sattelite connections vary greatly in terms of their latency, but they're generally much higher than fixed broadband or even terrestrial wireless connections.
Why do you say its a satellite-based connection? According to a previous post in this thread by dot:
dot said:
I agree that latency will be relatively high, but I wouldnt expect it to be much worse than a current 3G (UMTS) connection as the link from the aircraft is directly to the ground rather than via a satellite like Connexions by Boeing was. Hopefully, the Aircell groundstations and network connections have been well designed to minimise latency for pax.
If this is true, then wouldn't latency basically be the radio transmission time from the aircraft to the ground receiver (basically the speed of light over say 40,000 feet vertical component and up to several hundred miles lateral component), plus modulation/demodulation delay? Then assume they trunk all the traffic back to one central gateway which could be at the opposite side of the continent in the worst case. So based on these assumptions I see the following:

Radio transmission distance = 500km maximum
Radio transmission speed = speed of light = 300,000,000 m/s
Radio transmission delay = 500,000/300,000,000 = 1.7ms
Round-trip latency due to radio link = 2 x 1.7ms = 3.4ms
Radio Modulation/demodulation Delay = 5ms
Ground station trunk to internet gateway (round trip time) = 30ms

total latency from aircraft to internet gateway = <40ms

Now we do also need to consider the serialisation delay at each point, which is dependent on the individual interface speeds in the path. Assuming we are only considering VoIP and save G.729 CODEC and a sample rate of 10ms and packet rate of 50pps, we have 20 bytes of data in each packet, plus 20 bytes of IP header, 8 bytes of UDP header and 12 bytes of uncompressed RTP header, so packet transmission will be padded to 64 byte minimum for IP (i.e. minimum size packets). Hence serialisation delay is low, even for low bandwidth interfaces.

So it would seem that latency is not going to be a major concern for such a connection. I regularly use G.729 with well in excess of 350ms round-trip delay.

The biggest issue I would expect, as related to VoIP call quality, will be packet lossdue to congestion. If packet queuing delay exceeds the jitter buffer (typically around 40ms) then late arriving packets are seen as lost packets. G.729 (and G.711) treats out-of-sequence packets as lost packets since its only got UDP for delivery. So assuming they do not limit MTU size (i.e. carry 1500 byte packets) or implement any form of QoS on the link, congestion or contention will likely result in VoIP packet loss either from tail-drops at the congestion point or jitter buffer over-run at the receiving station.
It does depend a little on the codec that you and your VSP (Voice Service Provider) use, however. The most common codecs used in Australia are g.711 (a-law and u-law), which is what the standard voice network now uses, and g.729, which is a slightly more compressed codec. g.711 is highly latency sensitive, and likely would fail outright. g.729 might work a little, but would likely suffer dropouts.
The network characteristics of G.711 and G.729 are similar. Both generally operate with a sample interval of 10ms and combine two samples into each packet for a packet rate of 50pps. G.711 carries 160 bytes of data in each RTP packet, while G.729 only carries 20 bytes. I don't understand why you suggest G.711 is highly latency sensitive. G.729 introduces slightly more latency due to the compression overhead, being about 10ms for G.729 and <1ms for G.711.
There is a little known codec called iLBC (internet low bitrate codec) which is designed for high latency connections, however, it's not well supported (I only know of MyNetFone supporting it at the moment, although I understand that Pennytel will do so shortly), which degrades much better over higher latency connections (it's more tolerant of voice packets arriving out of order over a data connection), but even if it works well, you will find that there's a long delay (you say hello, and you have to wait for them to receive it and then say hello back - and you may find that you end up talking over each other as the delay from you to them and them to you means that the conversation doesn't flow smoothly.
iLBC is decribed in RFC3951. As iLBC still uses RTP for its transport, it will still consider out-of-sequence packets as lost packets. Its just that due to its use of linear predictive coding the voice quality degrades gracefully with packet loss, hence being considered more tolerant of out-of-sequence packets. But its not an option for most corporate VoIP implementation based on iPBX technology from the major IPT vendors today.
In other words, it's possible, but there are some unique challenges, and some pretty major compromises. If you're determined to have voice calls on an international flight and not mortgage your house, though, this would be doable.
I don't see it as any more challenging than operating over a hotel WiFi internet service or an airline lounge, and I have used my G.729 connection many times under such conditions - with mixed success depending on the congestion of the internet gateway.
Not that I'm advocating it - a plane full of chattering people would be painful!
Agree totally, and even if I could do it, I would not.
 
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An update to this story (and technology) - Aircell have announced that their next generation of Gogo service will use LTE technology - see here - this will enable (they claim) the connection from the ground to the aircraft to be increase from it's current 12Mbps (peak) to 300Mbps (peak). I would expect them to continue to use WiFi on board for the local conection.
 
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