Leave if you’re not happy, Qantas CEO tells Qatar Airways

[Flying mermaid]

We're doing the same .... not because QF is a poor airline. After 2.5 decades, and achieving the 2nd highest form of recognition (that would be P1) and the highest LT status on offer, I just want to try new things. Plus, we have far too many QFFP, we simply need to cease accumulating.

its not a poor airline, just not value for money and I will still fly it when it makes sense e.g. in January we are flying QF to Santiago because son-in-law was really restricted on his time off work. Our split this year has been 2 F fares on Emirate, 2 J fares for Qatar and 4 J fares for Qantas. .

 

[Flying mermaid]

And they're surviving and doing just fine without you Flying mermaid and RooFlyer.

Obviously their priority boarding and bagging issues aren't making that big of an impact on customer loyalty.

Never quite sure why people need to be aggressive. Civilised debate is fine but some people feel the need to go for the throat on minor issues

Qantas buys loyalty with its FF program. For people like myself who have given up on FF programs (LTG is enough), there is no way to buy except via a quality product.

 

[amaroo]

its not a poor airline, just not value for money and I will still fly it when it makes sense e.g. in January we are flying QF to Santiago because son-in-law was really restricted on his time off work. Our split this year has been 2 F fares on Emirate, 2 J fares for Qatar and 4 J fares for Qantas. .

Value, is valued in all sorts of different ways .... things like labour relations, etc ... legacy airlines like QF probably lead the field amongst those quoted in your post.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Value, is valued in all sorts of different ways .... things like labour relations, etc ... legacy airlines like QF probably lead the field amongst those quoted in your post.

absolutely . For years I carried on flying Qantas in order to support an Australian airline. I finally (after more than a few annoyances with Qantas), decided I was putting up with an inferior product in order to put more money in shareholders pockets. Didn’t really seem to make sense.

Singapore Air still my favourite, but not always possible to fly it.

 

[getluv]

Never quite sure why people need to be aggressive. Civilised debate is fine but some people feel the need to go for the throat on minor issues

Qantas buys loyalty with its FF program. For people like myself who have given up on FF programs (LTG is enough), there is no way to buy except via a quality product.

I was simply pointing out that it is impossible for QF to compete with an airline like QR and that no one would consider flying QR if it wasn't for its quality hard product. I simply pointed out, QF will never have the gold plated hard product you want because it doesn't have a totalitarian government funding its relevance. So if you're going to compare apples with apples, you can't compare QF with QR, nor can you with SQ and QF where the way they operate and conduct business is completely different.

In saying that, I am pretty sure we were having a civilised debate. God knows what the "lemming" comment means from the other guy. I don't understand why you think people pointing out facts is a "go for the throat". I find when people resort to this its preferable for them to play the victim than admit they've got nothing to add.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I was simply pointing out that it is impossible for QF to compete with an airline like QR and that no one would consider flying QR if it wasn't for its quality hard product. I simply pointed out, QF will never have the gold plated hard product you want because it doesn't have a totalitarian government funding its relevance. So if you're going to compare apples with apples, you can't compare QF with QR, nor can you with SQ and QF where the way the operate and conduct business is completely different.

In saying that, I am pretty sure we were having a civilised debate. God knows what the "lemming" comment means from the other guy. I don't understand why you think people pointing out facts is a "go for the throat". I find when people resort to this its preferable to play the victim than admit they've got nothing to add.

and this is exactly what I mean - why use terms like playing the victim - it’s unpleasant.

Anyway we might just need to agree to disagree on this one. You suggested we vote with our wallets. I have been doing that for a few years now and thoroughly enjoying it

 

[amaroo]

absolutely . For years I carried on flying Qantas in order to support an Australian airline. I finally (after more than a few annoyances with Qantas), decided I was putting up with an inferior product in order to put more money in shareholders pockets. Didn’t really seem to make sense.

High wages and good conditions can only be guaranteed and paid in one way - the customer!

 

[RooFlyer]

God knows what the "lemming" comment means from the other guy.

As FM says, we can be polite here, if we try. The name's RooFlyer, (or formerRooFlyer to be more accurate), you may call me 'Roo . Skip, not so much.

The reference to lemmings was a dig at the millions of loyal QFF members who keep flying the airline, day in, day or, because it's what they've always done, putting up with an often inferior product, a more expensive product etc., because its Qantas, you know, the National Airline

So if you're going to compare apples with apples, you can't compare QF with QR, nor can you with SQ and QF where the way they operate and conduct business is completely different

I'll agree whole heartedly with you there!

 

[Flying mermaid]

High wages and good conditions can only be guaranteed and paid in one way - the customer!

but the airline decides how much of that goes to the staff and how much to the shareholder. Isn’t Joyce the one who grounded the fleet rather than meet union action over wages and outsourcing of maintenance and have we forgotten the Australian government breaking the pilots strike in the late 80s?

Isn’t jetstar doing more than a few dodgy things to use non Australian staff and Qantas using non Australian crews based in London? Loads of maintenance done offshore now. I think Qantas likes to take the high ground but as far as I can see they use every opportunity to save money on staff and conditions.

 

[amaroo]

but the airline decides how much of that goes to the staff and how much to the shareholder. Isn’t Joyce the one who grounded the fleet rather than meet union action over wages and outsourcing of maintenance and have we forgotten the Australian government breaking the pilots strike in the late 80s?

Isn’t jetstar doing more than a few dodgy things to use non Australian staff and Qantas using non Australian crews based in London? Loads of maintenance done offshore now. I think Qantas likes to take the high ground but as far as I can see they use every opportunity to save money on staff and conditions.

I'm sure you've managed / owed many businesses and have made some tough calls, thus remaining profitable.

There's a reason I wrote legacy airline

 

[Flying mermaid]

I'm sure you've managed many businesses and have made tough decisions, and remain profitable.

There's a reason I wrote legacy airline

yes when times get tough you do what you have to. However I always looked after my core staff, even if it meant reducing what I got. Which is why 6 years after I closed the business I am still catching up with them - having a burger (where is a shocked icon) high tea with them on Sunday

 

[drron]

Sure, so Qantas should be encouraging the Qatar’s and Emirates and Cathays of this world to stay in the alliance so that Qantas can service the areas it wants to.

No they should be encouraging China Southern to join OW.There have been rumours in our local press they want to fly into MCY when the second runway is complete.
however I was just pointing out that there are other areas apart from capital cities that have significant growing populations.

 

[amaroo]

yes when times get tough you do what you have to. However I always looked after my core staff, even if it meant reducing what I got. Which is why 6 years after I closed the business I am still catching up with them - having a burger (where is a shocked icon) high tea with them on Sunday

That's nice.

I guess AJ could say the same thing about his core 20,000+ staff... and many more since then. It's always a thankless task making the tough decision, so many cheap-seat critics with their views.

 

[drron]

Another who has voted with his wallet.Changed my loyalty program to AA 15 years ago as I was treated much better by them than I had been by QFF.After the Takover by Doug parker have now switched to BA.Again much better recognition than with QFF.Besides flying to SIN I can fly F with BA for a lower price than QF J.

 

[Flying mermaid]

That's nice.

I guess AJ could say the same thing about his core 20,000+ staff... and many more since then. It's always a thankless task making the tough decision, so many cheap-seat critics with their views.

I think we have sequed into arguing about cost of staff and legacy vs non legacy staff.

From my point of view I didn’t make the decision to move based on the glitzy suites or fantastic food and drink offerings. I do accept that it is harder for Qantas to match those with its higher costs structures. It was just plain bad service from Qantas that made us make the jump, the other things have been a bonus once we decided to move on.

The final straw for us was being downgraded from First to business without being contacted or any effort made to find another solution. I had to phone them up from Rome and make the suggestion that they could change the sfo-lax leg to sfo-Dfw where there was heaps of F availability. Now I don’t believe other airlines are any better, in fact they are probably worse, but for years I convinced Mr FM and myself that Qantas would do better in those sort of situations, so it was worth putting up with the inferior other bits. This experience was followed very quickly by a number of other stuff ups with Ms FM and really reinforced the lack of service.

 

[serfty]

The same reason people buy Apple products when they could buy a cheaper alternative that does probably the same thing, if not more.

The term "iSheep" comes to mind, but at least with Apple you get a product that is consistently of excellent quality, unlike Qantas.

 

[Pushka]

No they should be encouraging China Southern to join OW.There have been rumours in our local press they want to fly into MCY when the second runway is complete.
however I was just pointing out that there are other areas apart from capital cities that have significant growing populations.

China Southern flies Adl - Guangzhou. Not keen to participate. They do use the QP pre flight.

 

[RooFlyer]

The term "iSheep" comes to mind, but at least with Apple you get a product that is consistently of excellent quality, unlike Qantas.

Ah. Qsheep would have been a better term for me to have used above.

 

[OATEK]

In their own way, Amaroo, Rooflyer and Flying Mermaid are saying the same thing - that flying decisions are based on "value", a combination of price, safety and service. I have being flying internationally since 1987, and have flown more with CX than any other, with decisions always based on value to me. Domestically I generally stick with QF because work dictated, and because of QFF membership. And internationally I generally use OW airlines, except intra-Europe where I have more eclectic tastes, again based on "value". However, there are those who are rusted on QF users, and forgive the failures in so many ways (add catering to priority boarding and other service deficiencies), and it doesn't matter for example that I could show my old boss that for the same prices as QF Y+ he could fly J with AY. It wasn't about points, or status, he just couldn't bring himself to consider flying other than with QF.

 

[SeatBackForward]

The term "iSheep" comes to mind, but at least with Apple you get a product that is consistently of excellent quality, unlike Qantas.

I thought people buy Apple products to know what they'll get in the next years model.