New airline to fly Sydney/Melbourne in 3rd quarter rumour

[ozfflyer]

Nope. I aint going to Bankstown and I sure as heck never going to park my car there overnight/long term. Ever.

maybe aimed at day trippers or put car in secure carpark right beside the terminal ?

 

[ozfflyer]

The drive is much further than Bankstown to Mascot, that's for sure. But perhaps for an early morning and late evening double daily weekday service between Bankstown & Essendon, the demand could be there?



Who knows. Doesn't have to be anything more than daily (maybe double daily would be better). Whether they can support that and the rest of their routes is probably the question.

That said we are just assuming it would be them that would operate! Maybe someone else has some other or better ideas...

don't think they'd be lookng to drag anyone who lives east of Mascot to Bankstown, but a lot of people live west of Mascot. Each day hundreds of company reps fly SYD/MEL,(& MEL/SYD) & they don't live at Rose Bay or Point Piper. Imagine it wouldn't even be about price, but rather convenience & ease of getting in & out of airports. Would flight paths conflict say between Bankstown & Mascot, Tullamarine & Essendon ?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Would flight paths conflict say between Bankstown & Mascot, Tullamarine & Essendon ?

Nope not at all. The control zone starts at 1500ft. So in a high performance aircraft you'd be handed over to departures like any other aircraft departing Sydney. You'd be above the inbound traffic outside of control airspace surrounding Bankstown. If it's a jet it'll need to be planned via WOL but if it's a turboprop then via the waypoint CORDO (Cordeaux Dam) down south. Coming into Essendon you'll be planned via COLDS (Coldstream) which is further east and below all traffic arriving into MEL.

It's an interesting concept but Bankstown would definitely be a limiting factor. Runway 11C/29C is only 1400m long. Not sure on performance figures for jets in the middle of summer but it'd be pressing to have a fully laden aircraft with hardly any sea breeze to cool things down. A quick look at the Dornier 328 jet:

MTOW: 15,000kg
Take Off Run Required at MTOW: 1367m (very close!!)
Maximum crosswind component: 21kts (wet or dry)

So because Bankstown no longer has a north/south runway, once those southerlies kick in aircraft are going to be missing out and ending up in SYD anyway? The Saab340 is a little better at 35kts crosswind capability but still no match for the 40kt southerlies that SYD can get.

 

[Alyopsis]

There was s story floating around about a year ago about a private jet on demand subscription service between Bankstown and Essendon.

Would you pay $2550 month for unlimited Sydney-Melbourne flights? - Plane Talking

Kind of like an plane version of Uber - theoretically.

It was getting some publicity then ran into some issues (regulatory, I think() which set them back a bit. It could have finally got some legs.

Regarding security, all their subscribers were going to have to have some sort of clearance, like an airside pass, to use the service, thus getting around the issue of no proper security at Bankstown - which I believe you need if you intend to put people in jets, even small ones

 

[Deleted member 29185]

It's an interesting concept but Bankstown would definitely be a limiting factor. Runway 11C/29C is only 1400m long. Not sure on performance figures for jets in the middle of summer but it'd be pressing to have a fully laden aircraft with hardly any sea breeze to cool things down.

What's the "comfortable" runway length over a minimum runway length? The F70 is about 1300m minimum, but if (a big if) it was a business class only concept, the MTOW would be lower, one would assume.

What's the minimum number of aircraft to make such a jaunt viable yet still provide back up when one goes tech, I wonder?

 

[Quickstatus]

There was an all J class operation between SYD and MEL by a startup.

Didn’t last

No status credits
No high frequency schedule

Need both

 

[Deleted member 29185]

There was an all J class operation between SYD and MEL by a startup.

Didn’t last

No status credits
No high frequency schedule

Need both

A big hurdle, agreed, but what they need most is:
a) a reasonable start up budget (ie good cash flow from an existing operation); and
b) good fares for the J service.

Not everyone wants points from flying (CC's often give considerably more) and you don't need status if you're flying J/F.

That membership mentioned earlier seems to make some sense. Bragging rights about having your own aircraft on standby, but a turbo-prop doesn't cut it IMHO. Replace that with a jet and a bloody good marketing campaign tailored toward egos and it may work, especially if they stitch together some international deals to boot (like a smaller version of VA). Alliance already has the aircraft, a number of operational bases and the cash flow.

 

[Quickstatus]

Turboprops v jets is not about who goes faster or higher. Often slower smaller aircraft can match the door to door elapsed time of the big boys especially on the short hops

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Turboprops v jets is not about who goes faster or higher. Often slower smaller aircraft can match the door to door elapsed time of the big boys especially on the short hops

OK, you have the turbo prop and I'll have the jet! I'm happy with that arrangement!

SYD-MEL is going to be jet wins (IMHO)

 

[AviatorInsight]

What's the "comfortable" runway length over a minimum runway length? The F70 is about 1300m minimum, but if (a big if) it was a business class only concept, the MTOW would be lower, one would assume.

What's the minimum number of aircraft to make such a jaunt viable yet still provide back up when one goes tech, I wonder?

Well technically you could use up every metre of that runway if by the end you could reach 50ft. The problem becomes when the temperature gets too hot that suddenly that 50ft is dragged beyond the physical limits of the runway and/or there is not enough headwind or too much tailwind.

But yes to make the aircraft lighter and have an all business class concept could work to get the weight lower.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It seems Fly Corporate picked up another Saab at the beginning of November. Could be a coincidence, don't know if they increased any other services recently.

C&L Aviation Group Delivers Saab 340B to Fly Corporate, Australia - C&L Aero

 

[Quickstatus]

It seems Fly Corporate picked up another Saab at the beginning of November. Could be a coincidence, don't know if they increased any other services recently.

C&L Aviation Group Delivers Saab 340B to Fly Corporate, Australia - C&L Aero

I wonder how it got from Maine USA to Brisbane

 

[AviatorInsight]

I wonder how it got from Maine USA to Brisbane

They would've ferried it. Same as Rex's Saabs.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I wonder how it got from Maine USA to Brisbane

They would've ferried it. Same as Rex's Saabs.

Had the same question actually but there is an older entry on Aussie Airliners of a ferry route for one of the ZL Saab's from the USA

Ferry route: Nashville - Van Nuys - Honolulu - Nadi - Coolangatta - Orange - Wagga Wagga

 

[rock86]

Oh yeah, I wasn't meaning that SYD-MEL is a no-goer, just that I doubt Wellcamp is seen by anyone east of the Great Divide as being an alternative to BNE or OOL. I doubt even Ipswich would look favourably on the drive to T'mba. Perhaps Gatton may, but Gatton has a population of 10 plus 15 Kelpies!

Once the bypass opens up this way, there'll be minimal time difference for a lot of residents in the Ipswich area to travel to either BNE or WTB. But whether that sees an increase in pax travelling through WTB, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Quickstatus]

They would've ferried it. Same as Rex's Saabs.

Yes but it’s 2500mi from US west coast to HNL. Maybe they took the seats out and shipped them separately. Aux bladder tanks?.

Friend of mine who is a private pilot ferried his single engine Cessna in that way.

Maybe 10hours flying time?. Weather a potential issue as the ceiling on these aircraft is no where near the jets?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Once the bypass opens up this way, there'll be minimal time difference for a lot of residents in the Ipswich area to travel to either BNE or WTB. But whether that sees an increase in pax travelling through WTB, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

OT, but is the bypass happening? I thought that proposal was shelved. Whilst the range remains in play, it will always be a mental block to people from the east, using WTB (IMHO).

But to get back on track, WTB as an alternative to BNE is not fair as an analogy to BWU as an alternative to SYD as WTB is a lot further and has the Great Dividing Range to climb up en-route. A fairer comparison would be to talk about the SYD alternative being at Bathurst, but that's not going to happen, so it's all just meaningless really. A better genuine comparison would be to look at how OOL works with BNE or how AVV works with MEL or even NTL with SYD.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Yes but it’s 2500mi from US west coast to HNL. Maybe they took the seats out and shipped them separately. Aux bladder tanks?.

Friend of mine who is a private pilot ferried his single engine Cessna in that way.

Maybe 10hours flying time?. Weather a potential issue as the ceiling on these aircraft is no where near the jets?

Yes exactly, they take out the seats and replace them with big bladder tanks. 10hrs sounds about right, they're half the speed of a jet. The ceiling is 25,000ft but that's because of the absence of drop down oxygen masks in the cabin. If it's a ferry, then the absolute ceiling could be higher as the flight crew have access to quick donning oxygen masks.

 

[rock86]

OT, but is the bypass happening? I thought that proposal was shelved. Whilst the range remains in play, it will always be a mental block to people from the east, using WTB (IMHO).

Part of the bypass is already opened, with the entire bypass to be opened early next quarter and it will shave probably 30mins of travel time off going through town. Realistically though to appeal to the Ipswich catchment WTB will need more flight times, as one a day won't cut it for a lot of Ipswich business people.

 

[ozfflyer]

Think you can only do 1/ dozen flights a day out of Bankstown, unless charters.

so 6 x somewhere between 34 & 50 seats say per day, is not going to lead to massive numbers of people at Bankstown at any one time.