More 787 delays?

[Evan]

Tha A350XWB seems a much more conservative project time line. Anyway some piccies of it here PICTURES & VIDEO: Airbus reveals definitive A350 XWB design

Much more so, i think its 1 year longer than the 777 timeline that Boeing managed. Still a lot can go wrong but i am at the moment confident Airbus will deliver the A350XWB on or very close to time.

Of course the A380 was really flying as planned and a freighter probably could have been in service 2 years earlier than the passanger version since all that wireing was not required, the wireing mess was exactly that a big mess but the aircraft was flying and proving its self, sorting ourt bugs etc. Unlike the 787 that has not even flown yet ! i am sure it will and i am sure it will be fine but the 2 or so years delay and even longer for 787-9 is painful and costly.

I only hope the 787 lives up to promises, fuel burn reductions, eight, range etc. Atleast the extra couple of years has allowed the engine guys to keep working.
All i say is may it fly soon.

E

 

[oz_mark]

I only hope the 787 lives up to promises,

It's living up to its hype in much the same way Windows Vista did Yes, I also like to see it flying soon...at least that will mark a path on the ourney to the 767's exitting the QF fleet!

 

[Evan]

It's living up to its hype in much the same way Windows Vista did Yes, I also like to see it flying soon...at least that will mark a path on the ourney to the 767's exitting the QF fleet!

hahaha yes well lets hope its not QF that Boeing is expecting to cancel, i would highly doubt it since they have publicly commited to it even 2 years late, but you never know what deals may have been struct for A330's and XWB's. Most are assuming the cancellations will be from airlines LOT who are in deep trouble.

The problem for Boeing is that it cant afford for it not to perform to specs or better since then there could be payments to be made because of that as well.

I would not like to be looking after the 787 in Boeing right now, it must be a difficult time, hoping for good news !

Vista... hmm i work in IT and i wont go near it But Windows 7 so far looks the goods from what i read, i cant be bothered installing a beta.

E

 

[oz_mark]

hahaha yes well lets hope its not QF that Boeing is expecting to cancel, i would highly doubt it since they have publicly commited to it even 2 years late, but you never know what deals may have been struct for A330's and XWB's. Most are assuming the cancellations will be from airlines LOT who are in deep trouble.

The problem for Boeing is that it cant afford for it not to perform to specs or better since then there could be payments to be made because of that as well.

I'm tending to think that any cancellation now would be from an airline that has other financial issues. QF would be taking a pretty hefty punt in cancelling and taking up A350's, in fact I can't see at this point they would even go there.

QF also recently put off two A330 deliveries fro Jetstar, so I think there current plan revolves around sitting out the downturn in the economy and hoping the 787's can come online in time for them to take advantage of an upturn in the economy

 

[Evan]

I'm tending to think that any cancellation now would be from an airline that has other financial issues. QF would be taking a pretty hefty punt in cancelling and taking up A350's, in fact I can't see at this point they would even go there.

QF also recently put off two A330 deliveries fro Jetstar, so I think there current plan revolves around sitting out the downturn in the economy and hoping the 787's can come online in time for them to take advantage of an upturn in the economy

This would also be my assumption.
Any idea if the 2 x A330's were the purchased ones or to be leased ones ?
Lets all hope the B787 works as well as it should since QF will have 65 of them + 50 options of something like that !
And i still would think we may well see a A350-900 order from QF to fill a gap, time will tell.

E

 

[oz_mark]

This would also be my assumption.
Any idea if the 2 x A330's were the purchased ones or to be leased ones ?
Lets all hope the B787 works as well as it should since QF will have 65 of them + 50 options of something like that !
And i still would think we may well see a A350-900 order from QF to fill a gap, time will tell.

E

According to the QF release they were leased:

Mr Dixon said Qantas would manage the capacity cuts by:
* not taking up the planned lease of two A330-200 aircraft;

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases

I believe they were for Jetstar. Actually I thought they should have taken them into QF and retired a couple of 767's

QF do seem to have a gap that needs filling. ?Time will tell how they plug it.

 

[Evan]

According to the QF release they were leased:

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases

I believe they were for Jetstar. Actually I thought they should have taken them into QF and retired a couple of 767's

QF do seem to have a gap that needs filling. ?Time will tell how they plug it.

Hahaha, i think the 767's are shall we say very cheap from a capital point of view and dont they also have the RB211's like the 747's ? so maybe easy choice just to keep going like they are and keep costs low, i am sure lower than a leased A330 which they may have made a profit on my allowing it to go elsewhere.

Yes i would say a rather large gap...

A380 down to a 787-9 is a huge gap, sure some 744's will remain in the fleet a long time but i would imagine these have special routes in mind, eg JNB and EZE, i would expect most USA and Asia/Europe will be A380's.
So i guess the A350-900 and A350-1000 fills that nicely.

E

 

[dot]

I believe they were for Jetstar. Actually I thought they should have taken them into QF and retired a couple of 767's

QF do seem to have a gap that needs filling. ?Time will tell how they plug it.

Speaking of retiring 767s, I wish they would get rid of the 767 on the long haul international routes - just under 8 hours SYD-MNL in Y on a 767 is no fun at all. In comparison a 767 from MEL-SYD is a bus ride.

 

[Evan]

Speaking of retiring 767s, I wish they would get rid of the 767 on the long haul international routes - just under 8 hours SYD-MNL in Y on a 767 is no fun at all. In comparison a 767 from MEL-SYD is a bus ride.

You know MNL is not a 'premium' route, you expect nice planes... what were you thinking ? Actually it would make there product also so much equal across the board, all international except some NZ flights would then have skybeds !

E

 

[oz_mark]

You know MNL is not a 'premium' route, you expect nice planes... what were you thinking ? Actually it would make there product also so much equal across the board, all international except some NZ flights would then have skybeds !

E

I think HNL still is on 767's as well (and well as oneStar)

 

[dot]

You know MNL is not a 'premium' route, you expect nice planes... what were you thinking ? Actually it would make there product also so much equal across the board, all international except some NZ flights would then have skybeds !

E

Premium destination or not - the tickets almost always more expensive than SYD-HKG and the plane is always full. I would think they could fill a two class A330 on the same timetable without too many problems. Oz_mark is correct about the SYD-HNL - 10:35 on a 767 - not my idea of a pleasant experience

 

[Evan]

I missed a smilly in there, i was joking, i believe very strongly that all international route with maybe the exception of AU-NZ daytime flights should be skybeds. The actual model is not that relevent, 767's are ok, sure a new interior would be a good start but very little difference than an A330 except maybe a little louder but otherwise more or less identical if had the same cabin.
I have done my fair share of 767 flight to NRT over the years when QF used to use them on those routes as well.

If the 787-9 was being delivered now we would have no more international 767's i am sure, as it happens the 787-8 has not even flown yet.

E

 

[oz_mark]

I have done my fair share of 767 flight to NRT over the years when QF used to use them on those routes as well.

Reminds me PER-NRT is still on the 767's. Given I can't see skybeds going into 767's, I still would have thought there was scope to switch them to A330's if they had chosen to take them.

Still, I understand that the numbers may not have stacked up.Notwitstanding that the 787-9's are still at least 4-5 years from appearing in QF colours,

 

[Evan]

My guess is QF dont intend to run an A330 fleet for ever, especially since i believe that they did not really make the best engine choice. The GE CF6's QF run are apparently not as good as the RR Trents which have better thrust, are lighter, and give better hot & high performance although i had heard the GE did have reasonable economy. There is also the PW engine but seems mainly to attract US and cold climate customers.
SQ's new A330's come with the RR Trents with apparently great furn burn figures.

With QF maybe wanting to get rid of there A330's when the B787's arrive in force i guess it makes sense not to get to many, i hope not since i like the A330 in QF config, a comfortable and capable plane.

4 or 5 years is a long looong time
I still wonder how many 744's will go in that time, i would assume all but the 6 x ER's and the 3 ugly sisters and a few of the others maybe... since they should have a lot of A380's by then, by end of 2009 A380's will number 7

E

 

[oz_mark]

As I understand it the initial 787's are going to JQ, and the A330's they have will come back to QF. Perhaps they will start giving some of the older 767's the flick at that time.

And by the time the 787-9's come on line, some of the early A330's are going to have a few years of flying under their belt.

As for engines, I guess QF selected what was the best for what they originally planned them to do

 

[Ric]

Speaking of retiring 767s, I wish they would get rid of the 767 on the long haul international routes - just under 8 hours SYD-MNL in Y on a 767 is no fun at all. In comparison a 767 from MEL-SYD is a bus ride.

Heard from a reliable source from QF today that there is a good possibility that by April/May A330 will be flying the Manila route.

And yes, the price for Syd-Mnl-Syd are a lot more expensive that the SIN or HKG route. Paid just under $2500 for whY Syd-Mnl-Syd (on the 767s) for Mrs Ric to travel last Dec.

Ric

 

[Flying Fox]

Yes i would say a rather large gap...

A380 down to a 787-9 is a huge gap, sure some 744's will remain in the fleet a long time but i would imagine these have special routes in mind, eg JNB and EZE, i would expect most USA and Asia/Europe will be A380's.
So i guess the A350-900 and A350-1000 fills that nicely.

E

My guess is that QF are pushing Boeing for the 787-10 and Airbus for the A350-1000 as a gap filler between the A380 and B787-9s and as replacements for the B747 fleet. I can't see them going for B777 at this late stage of the game (since they were on the original B777 spec team and didn't buy back then).

I also believe that the A330s will be rotated back from JQ into QF as some of the early 767s are retired and then these will eventually be replaced with the B787s.

So I see the eventual QF fleet as A380-800 (and even A380-900 should they ever get offered & built), B787-10 (my guess as to QF's preference for commonality) OR A350-1000, B787-9 & B787-8, B737 + regionals.

 

[docjames]

A380 down to a 787-9 is a huge gap, sure some 744's will remain in the fleet a long time but i would imagine these have special routes in mind, eg JNB and EZE, i would expect most USA and Asia/Europe will be A380's.
So i guess the A350-900 and A350-1000 fills that nicely.

E

Even if the A350 (or 787 for that matter) have the range to do SYD-JNB or SYD-EZE, they cant do -EZE becuase of ETOPS requirements (there's no designated fields capable).

I think we worked out the 777 could do -JNB as it's ETOPS 215mins (or something about that number), but it still cant do -EZE. So you're going to need a 4 holer to do SYD-EZE anyway. The 747s will be around for quite a while. I guess the issue will come c. 2020 when the last of the 747s are getting onwards of 15-20 years old (and the oldest will be likely be gone as they'd be >30yrs). I cant see them running the A380 to EZE so will be interesting fleet planning once the 787s actually arrive! Maybe they will actually need some 747-8s (Boeing sure will be hoping!)

 

[oz_mark]

Boeing pushes back delivery of fuel-efficient 787s

JETSTAR'S new Boeing 787s face further delays as deliveries were pushed back by the US manufacturer.

Boeing has pushed deliveries of the fuel-efficient plane back to the second half of 2010.

Jetstar, which plans to use the aircraft on routes to Europe and the US, was aware that deliveries would be delayed but was expecting to receive its first plane in the second quarter of next year.

Boeing pushes back delivery of fuel-efficient 787s | The Australian

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Boeing pushes back delivery of fuel-efficient 787s

Boeing pushes back delivery of fuel-efficient 787s | The Australian

Ouch.

So I'm guessing that QF/JQ wait until their planes start arriving, determine how late each aircraft is and then go back to Boeing's contract and work out the value of compensation?