No Show Fee?

[medhead]

It isn;t a purchase of a seat, it a a contract of carriage. Based on origin and destination with dates et al, the airline offers to allow carriage based on those agreements. If you no longer abide by this they can come after the passenger/travel agent

There have been cases where people have tried to do things of the ilk of wanting to fly a-b r/t but it is cheaper to start in z and so book z-a-b-a-z and have been penalised for not flying the final a-z flight

Dave

As already stated one can't be forced to actually use what is purchased. It is a simple contract, the airline offers to carry someone on a certain day at a certain time from A to B. The person accepts the offer and pays the fare. There is no obligation to actually get value for the money paid by taking the flight

I might contract to buy a car and pay the money, it is my choice as to whether or not I pick up the car. The dealer has to make the car available for me to pick up, but they can't force me to pick it up. If I don't pick up the car, I probably loss my cash, but that is my choice.

Who has been penalised in the situation you mention? How did they get to Z to start the journey? If Z is that close and easy to get to so that it doesn't cost mre then the money saved, why didn't they just fly back to Z and then get themselves back to A?

 

[JohnK]

Who has been penalised in the situation you mention? How did they get to Z to start the journey? If Z is that close and easy to get to so that it doesn't cost mre then the money saved, why didn't they just fly back to Z and then get themselves back to A?

It is a hypothetical scenario and I don't remember hearing of anyone who has been charged for being a no show on a return journey or multi-city journey. Some people just love quoting rules for the hell of it.

A person can miss a return flight for any number of valid reasons. If you want to be a no show then just think of a valid reason you could not travel. An airline would have no hope of trying to apply a one-way fare for the travel already taken and ask for additional money for legs not taken.

 

[Dave Noble]

As already stated one can't be forced to actually use what is purchased. It is a simple contract, the airline offers to carry someone on a certain day at a certain time from A to B. The person accepts the offer and pays the fare. There is no obligation to actually get value for the money paid by taking the flight

And if you fail to honour your side of the contract they can charge based on the fare for the journey actually undertaken and that can be a LOT in some situations

Dave

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And if you fail to honour your side of the contract they can charge based on the fare for the journey actually undertaken and that can be a LOT in some situations

Dave

Thankfully - the credit card would be your friend here!

The airline could TRY and charge you - but without a signed receipt you could challenge and the transaction would be withdrawn.

The airline would then be free to take you to court.

But the chances of that, unless you were a repeat offender, would be very small one would have thought?

 

[opusman]

And if you fail to honour your side of the contract they can charge based on the fare for the journey actually undertaken

Unless the contract specifically states that the customer agrees to undertake all flights on the ticket I don't really see how that can be the case.

 

[medhead]

And if you fail to honour your side of the contract they can charge based on the fare for the journey actually undertaken and that can be a LOT in some situations

Dave

That's right and the pax side of the contract is to pay the airline money. The airline is offering a service in return for a reward and if the pax has paying the required reward then they have honoured their side of the deal.

 

[Mal]

Who has been penalised in the situation you mention? How did they get to Z to start the journey? If Z is that close and easy to get to so that it doesn't cost mre then the money saved, why didn't they just fly back to Z and then get themselves back to A?

BA were pestering some travel agents and sending them "debit memos" when they were booking ex-EU tickets (often cheaper than ex-UK), and the client was flying eg LHR-NCE-LHR-LAX-LHR and dropping the last LHR-NCE part of the journey, and also sending out 'threatening' letters to people who had flown these types of journeys, threatening to remove tier points and FF points earnt on the tickets. All this happened about a year ago, and there are threads on Flyertalk about it, although whether anyone actually had been charged is unknown.

Another example was a super discount fare (Mistake fare perhaps), where the airline involved was threatening to charge anyone who didn't fly the final sector (as an example I think it was something like CMB-HKG-YYR or similar, and people didn't want to fly the final HKG-CMB sector.

I also don't know anyone personally who has been charged, and indeed I've dropped a sector from a return journey a few years ago with BA without any consequence. I think if you end up on the airline's radar, then you could have various threats made, and as a travel agent there is the potential for BA (or other airline) to send a bill (Agency Debit Memo) to an agent. Whether this is huff and puff or anything more serious I don't know...

For a person who does this once, then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Dave Noble]

Unless the contract specifically states that the customer agrees to undertake all flights on the ticket I don't really see how that can be the case.

And if you don't take all the sectors as booked, then they can charge the fare applicable for the journey actually undertaken. A-B-C-B-A may be cheaper than A-B-C-B and so there can be additional monies to pay

Dave

 

[opusman]

And if you don't take all the sectors as booked, then they can charge the fare applicable for the journey actually undertaken. A-B-C-B-A may be cheaper than A-B-C-B and so there can be additional monies to pay

So you keep saying, but can you actually provide an example of a "contract" that says this?

 

[JohnK]

So you keep saying, but can you actually provide an example of a "contract" that says this?

I don't think such a contract exists....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think such a contract exists....

The issue of a contract aside nobody seems to actually be able to explain HOW the airlines are going to get the additonal money from you??

 

[serfty]

I don't think such a contract exists....

Such contract certainly exists directly or indirectly between carriers and travel agencies.

It does not appear to exit in the CoC:

Book - Flights - Conditions of Carriage - Full

 

[harvyk]

The issue of a contract aside nobody seems to actually be able to explain HOW the airlines are going to get the additonal money from you??

Simple, send invoice, then a letter of demand, finally take you to the small claims court. It'd be hard to say how the small claims court would rule, and the costs in doing so would probably be more than the costs they are trying to recover.

That all said, I doubt that an airline (apart from RyanAir, but it has a reputation to protect) would do it as they'd risk losing the pax's business.


Now reading over the Qantas terms and conditions. There is only a couple of cases where they can seek additional money from you.

1. If you use their service to travel to a destination illegally where they are required to return you back to the point of origin. (eg because no visa) They can charge you the costs of the return ticket and any fines they receive.

2. If your conduct during the flight means they need to divert to off-load you. They can charge you any costs in relation to that divertion including landing fees, fuel, crew and ground handling time etc...

There is nothing in their agreement which states they can recover costs from you should you fail to board a flight. It only states that there is no refund on certain classes of tickets.

 

[Dave Noble]

Simple, send invoice, then a letter of demand, finally take you to the small claims court. It'd be hard to say how the small claims court would rule, and the costs in doing so would probably be more than the costs they are trying to recover.

The amounts are not necessarily small and small claims court isnt expensive. On one ticket I purchase , there is around a $16,000 difference between returning to origin or skipping the last flight

Dave

 

[harvyk]

The amounts are not necessarily small and small claims court isnt expensive. On one ticket I purchase , there is around a $16,000 difference between returning to origin or skipping the last flight

Dave

So in that case it'd be through the normal courts as small claims have a limit of $10,000.

True, for them to file a claim with small claims only costs $15, not big bikkies. But they'd need to get someone to actually go to court (probably need to be an actual licensed lawyer as they would be representing an entity) which costs them money.

In any case this is a moot point, as at least with QF, they do not have any ability to recover fare differences from you should you not complete a ticketed trip, and infact give you the ability to skip sectors with the only penalty being the loss of the fare for that sector. For example you could have CBR - SYD - LAX - SYD - CBR booked, but then only fly CBR - SYD - LAX and skip your LAX - SYD sector. Technically (and infact I've done something similar before) you could still fly the SYD - CBR sector provided you give QF notice, and at no penality.

 

[medhead]

Simple, send invoice, then a letter of demand, finally take you to the small claims court.

Or sell the debt off to a bikie gang or russian mafia related debt collector... :shock:

 

[harvyk]

Or sell the debt off to a bikie gang or russian mafia related debt collector... :shock:

Yeh, I've got a few debts of my own which I need to use "debt collectors".
Unfortuantly my lawyer wasn't too happy with the crowbar idea...

 

[straitman]

Yeh, I've got a few debts of my own which I need to use "debt collectors".
Unfortuantly my lawyer wasn't too happy with the crowbar idea...

So why did you tell him:?:

 

[harvyk]

So why did you tell him:?:

Because he wrote the initial threatening letters.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Simple, send invoice, then a letter of demand, finally take you to the small claims court. It'd be hard to say how the small claims court would rule, and the costs in doing so would probably be more than the costs they are trying to recover.

Thanks for stating there will need to be some process - the airline ncan't simply bill your credit card.

The above taken into account - I'm still interested to know on what basis the airline can make the claim.

Clearly it is a breach of contract by the passenger.

But what remedy?

Damages could be payable if the airline can show a loss.

But what, exactly, is the loss?