Purchased a Qantas Flex fare but when I requested a refund they insist it is "Red-E Deal"

[RobStrong]

Hello, my first time visiting this forum. I'm having an issue with Qantas refusing to pay me a refund. I've been unable to get anything but gibberish about "Red-E Deals" from the Qantas customer care team (when I definitely only ever purchased a flex) and now feel that I have no choice but to talk to a lawyer about how to escalate my claim. I am curious to know if anyone else has any experience of this problem?

My airfare was a one way ticket from Vancouver to Hobart, originally for 23rd August 2023, for which I purchased a flex. The cost was almost $3400 CAD when I purchased it in March 2023. I later changed the date to late October. At the time I made the change the qantas website offered me different fare types, I could have taken a cheaper fare type like a "saver" and got some money back on my original flex purchase, or I could pay a small fare increase to choose a flex for the new date. I selected the flex and paid approximately $100 so the total was now around $3500 CAD.

A couple of weeks before the new date, I cancelled the booking and requested a refund. A few weeks later I got two very small partial refunds, one around $20 to $30 and one of $115 AUD. I called Qantas and was directed to submit the follow up query on the refund through the complaints and compliments site, which I did.

Qantas responded initially with the claim that their records showed that I had originally purchased a flex for the Vancouver to Sydney leg and a "Red-E Deal" for the Sydney to Hobart leg, and that therefore the Red-E Deal terms would apply. This claim is incorrect, and I do not see how it is possible for one to make different fare type selections on the same one way booking on the Qantas website. The fare type selection is only made once for the whole route, so I find it impossible for what Qantas is claiming to have even happened. Aside from the fact it is impossible to make that selection on the website, it had been a very deliberate choice for me to purchase flex, as I knew my plans would be changing.

When I responded to point out that what Qantas claimed was impossible, they came back with another story about "Red-E Deals". This time claiming that I had also somehow booked Red-E Deals for two legs of the new itinerary (new itinerary included 3 flights instead of 2). This is also impossible. When making the selections on the Qantas website for the date change, you are only given one choice to make, for the whole itinerary.

So essentially I feel that Qantas has retrospectively changed the fare type and terms and conditions on my booking, whether by error or deliberate act and now refuses to address my complaint that it is impossible for me to have made the booking as they claim, with some legs as flex and some as "Red-E Deal".

Please let me know if you have any knowledge of other people having this problem. Or recommend a lawyer for this type of thing.

Cheers

 

[Ade]

Hello, my first time visiting this forum. I'm having an issue with Qantas refusing to pay me a refund. I've been unable to get anything but gibberish about "Red-E Deals" from the Qantas customer care team (when I definitely only ever purchased a flex) and now feel that I have no choice but to talk to a lawyer about how to escalate my claim. I am curious to know if anyone else has any experience of this problem?

My airfare was a one way ticket from Vancouver to Hobart, originally for 23rd August 2023, for which I purchased a flex. The cost was almost $3400 CAD when I purchased it in March 2023. I later changed the date to late October. At the time I made the change the qantas website offered me different fare types, I could have taken a cheaper fare type like a "saver" and got some money back on my original flex purchase, or I could pay a small fare increase to choose a flex for the new date. I selected the flex and paid approximately $100 so the total was now around $3500 CAD.

A couple of weeks before the new date, I cancelled the booking and requested a refund. A few weeks later I got two very small partial refunds, one around $20 to $30 and one of $115 AUD. I called Qantas and was directed to submit the follow up query on the refund through the complaints and compliments site, which I did.

Qantas responded initially with the claim that their records showed that I had originally purchased a flex for the Vancouver to Sydney leg and a "Red-E Deal" for the Sydney to Hobart leg, and that therefore the Red-E Deal terms would apply. This claim is incorrect, and I do not see how it is possible for one to make different fare type selections on the same one way booking on the Qantas website. The fare type selection is only made once for the whole route, so I find it impossible for what Qantas is claiming to have even happened. Aside from the fact it is impossible to make that selection on the website, it had been a very deliberate choice for me to purchase flex, as I knew my plans would be changing.

When I responded to point out that what Qantas claimed was impossible, they came back with another story about "Red-E Deals". This time claiming that I had also somehow booked Red-E Deals for two legs of the new itinerary (new itinerary included 3 flights instead of 2). This is also impossible. When making the selections on the Qantas website for the date change, you are only given one choice to make, for the whole itinerary.

So essentially I feel that Qantas has retrospectively changed the fare type and terms and conditions on my booking, whether by error or deliberate act and now refuses to address my complaint that it is impossible for me to have made the booking as they claim, with some legs as flex and some as "Red-E Deal".

Please let me know if you have any knowledge of other people having this problem. Or recommend a lawyer for this type of thing.

Cheers

Firstly, I feel sorry for the situation you are in. Certainly, not something that I'd wish on anyone.

To dig further into what you have mentioned - What is the fare class designator/code (the fare class letter) next to the class of travel as shown on your etickets (the one you purchased initially and then the one after the change)? This code gives a very good indication of the fare type of each of the legs in the itinerary. Once you have the code, check it against the fare table on QF website. Link: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/frequent-flyer/qantas-class-types.html

This will give an indication of the fare type that was booked.

 

[Daver6]

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, stop wasting your time with Qantas and just initiate a charge back on your card.

 

[CaptJCool]

That’s so disappointing
Especially being a one way fare

I did a dummy booking
And one CANNOT do split fare type booking on a direct trip.
(If the trip is broken in Sydney perhaps)


As mentioned
Credit card chargeback

 

[Mwenenzi]

You could try the Airline Advocate, but many have poor success. A toothless tiger.
But when I have lodged a complaint with ACA have always succeeded.
Keep it simple with a log of communications (phone - email), print out of the e-tickets and your text.
Link---> Airline Advocate

OP's other post--> Managing Westjet flights booked on QF points

 

[Ade]

I did a dummy booking
And one CANNOT do split fare type booking on a direct trip.
(If the trip is broken in Sydney perhaps)

That is correct. My understanding is - when the connection is offered as part of the itinerary, then the fare conditions are same across all the legs. For instance, when trying to book CBR-MAA, if QF website shows CBR-MEL-SYD-BLR-MAA as Flex, then the Flex applies to all the legs in that trip. It is not possible (at least as public I think) to see if the CBR-MEL is a Red-e-Deal or something other than Flex. So the OP is correct in this regard.

However as you mentioned, if the trip is split/broken - say I do CBR-MEL on a seperate PNR and then MEL-SYD-BLR-MAA is on a Flex, then the rules are different.

The above being mentioned - I know that if the itinerary has mixed fares say, the onward leg is on Flex and the return is on Saver/Sale, then the most restrictive fare policy applies.

@RobStrong - Just for my clarity - your trip is a one-way, so that above mentioned exception will not apply.

 

[RobStrong]

Firstly, I feel sorry for the situation you are in. Certainly, not something that I'd wish on anyone.

To dig further into what you have mentioned - What is the fare class designator/code (the fare class letter) next to the class of travel as shown on your etickets (the one you purchased initially and then the one after the change)? This code gives a very good indication of the fare type of each of the legs in the itinerary. Once you have the code, check it against the fare table on QF website. Link: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/frequent-flyer/qantas-class-types.html

This will give an indication of the fare type that was booked.

Thanks for your advice Ade. However I wasn’t able to find the fare type codes on the booking confirmations.

I also noticed that for international flights there is no Red-E Deal Category whereas one of the Qantas claims was that I had booked a Red E Deal for Vancouver to LA. Aside from that when booking a single one way ticket (or changing the date of that ticket) there is not an option to select different fare types for individual flight legs.

I’ve attached a snip from my initial confirmation, am I missing something with these codes?

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2023

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, stop wasting your time with Qantas and just initiate a charge back on your card.

Thanks. I hasn’t considered this route. I paid the initial booking with a credit card. But paid the fare difference for the change of date with a debit card.

 

[Ade]

international flights there is no Red-E Deal Category

For International flights there are 3 categories - Sale, Saver & Flex.

Red E Deal for Vancouver to LA.

I have a feeling they wanted to say "Sale" fare and said Red-e-Deal instead.

However I wasn’t able to find the fare type codes on the booking confirmations.

I just realised, QF might have stopped displaying the fare code in the etkt. I cross checked with an international trip I have next week and I can only see Economy for QF operated flights (no indication of Flex/Saver/Sale). However, for flights operated by other airlines (TG, in my case), I can see that fare code is V

You can find the fare codes in the Desktop version of the Manage My Booking (MMB) - as attached.


However, it might not be helpful in your case because the trip is cancelled and I don't think you can view cancelled/completed trips on the MMB. Can someone confirm this pls?

 

[RobStrong]

For International flights there are 3 categories - Sale, Saver & Flex.

I have a feeling they wanted to say "Sale" fare and said Red-e-Deal instead.

I just realised, QF might have stopped displaying the fare code in the etkt. I cross checked with an international trip I have next week and I can only see Economy for QF operated flights (no indication of Flex/Saver/Sale). However, for flights operated by other airlines (TG, in my case), I can see that fare code is V

You can find the fare codes in the Desktop version of the Manage My Booking (MMB) - as attached.

View attachment 358566
However, it might not be helpful in your case because the trip is cancelled and I don't think you can view cancelled/completed trips on the MMB. Can someone confirm this pls?

Yes those are the three categories I was presented with each time I made or changed the booking. And it was a single one way trip so I only got to make one choice. I very intentionally selected flex.

I’ve attached what the Qantas customer care person said. This was the second time they provided me a response, possibly because I had submitted a complaint through ACA.

Sounds like now I should see how I go with the credit card charge back.

 

[Ade]

what the Qantas customer care person said.

The email says about a YVR-LAX leg - I take it that, that leg was operated by a different airline than QF. Is it possible to see if you can get any info from their MMB or some place else to see if their documentation will have any reference to the Flex?

 

[RobStrong]

operated by a different airline than QF. Is it possible to see if you can get any info from their MMB

Yes when I changed the date, the itinerary changed to include American Airlines to LA first. I’ve attached the e ticket for the new itinerary. I will have to call them and see if they can get any info by giving them the Qantas booking reference.

 

[RichardMEL]

oh ouch, bringing AA into this complicates things for you (and no doubt confusing whoever you're talking to at QF. gah).

As suggested by @Ade, can you find the Economy class letter from the Manage My Booking page as they provide an example of - for all 3 flights? this may be helpful.

I've got a feeling you're either dealing with poorly trained agents and/or the new trip you changed to is including an AA sector in a more restricted fare class (not your fault I dare say) and this *may* be impacting the whole trip.

 

[RobStrong]

oh ouch, bringing AA into this complicates things for you

As suggested by @Ade, can you find the Economy class letter from the Manage My Booking page as they provide an example of - for all 3 flights? this may be helpful.

I understand. But it shouldn’t complicate it for me I don’t think. I chose a one way ticket from Vancouver to Hobart and selected “flex” so it’s clear cut for me. The fare rules don’t appear to depend on the exact route and partner airline flights? (Am I wrong?)

I will soon try to get any info I can from American Airlines but I’m not sure how it will go as I cancelled this booking back in October.

 

[RichardMEL]

oh right, so you can't see anything to manage. My apologies.

I don't think AA will be much help here - it's a QF codeshare so they would just refer back to QF.

What you need is an agent who knows what they're doing to pull the archived PNR and interpret it correctly I should think.

very frustrating!

 

[muppet]

This is actually a very consumer unfriendly practice of Qantas. Our proof of purchase has no record of our “bundle of rights”. Just a flight number, cost and *sometimes* cabin class. I say sometimes because half the time a business or first class ticket just says “confirmed” whereas economy always says economy

Compared to both AA and United, the email includes fare booking class and fare rules that clearly spell cancellation conditions. (Which for the last two I checked, we both non-refundable I and P class fares)

 

[djkelly69]

I’ve attached what the Qantas customer care person said. This was the second time they provided me a response, possibly because I had submitted a complaint through ACA.

Based on that response, and the fact that the rep refers to 'Red-E Deal' a number of times when referring to an international flight, suggests the rep is looking at the code/s shown on their system and only looking at the domestic flight code list.

I would try to push it further with them, but if no good, chargeback looks like the only feasible option.

 

[encryptededdy]

The problem with a chargeback is that OP doesn't have proof that they booked a flax fare (because Qantas doesn't send this to you!), so it may be difficult.

Maybe a CEO email could get someone competent to look at your booking?

Unfortunately I don't have any other recommendations

QF might have stopped displaying the fare code in the etkt

I've never seen one, even as far back as 2020.

 

[eminere]

I've never seen one, even as far back as 2020.

I have e-tickets dating back to 2016 and the booking class is not shown.

Now whenever I book flights with QF, I go to the MH web site, put in my PNR on their MMB, and have the booking confirmation email resent from there as the email from MH will contain the booking class.

 

[encryptededdy]

I guess OP has the original ticket number, so in theory someone can use that to pull up the booking class.

 

[RobStrong]

I have submitted a dispute with my credit card and will see what happens.

Two things I have on my side will be the fact that what the customer care person is saying is illogical, you don’t get the opportunity to make separate selections of fare types for each leg. And also that if someone is able to check Qantas pricing for the day that I purchased the ticket, they will see that $3400 CAD is the right price for flex from Vancouver to Hobart. In fact even to today, there is no sale or saver fares that reach that high a cost.