Should airlines pay for services they request a medical professional to perform?

[jb747]

Hopefully there'd be little need for that last scenario (conflict between onboard doc opinion and medlink!)

Normally no, but I have seen it.

Another stat that would be interesting would be to know

A) medical diversion rate
B) medical attendance/consultation rate

I'm sure (A) is hidden away in the bowels of the records, but wouldn't be available to mere mortals. I'd expect that they have no idea of (B).

From my own experience...I suspect medical assistance would be requested at some point on about 15% of long flights (much lower % on shorter). Mostly it turns out to be very minor.

I have never completed a medical diversion. On two occasions we have ramped up speeds right to the barber's pole, to get someone to the planned destination as quickly as possible, when either the medical facilities at the diversion points, or the weather, precluded an earlier landing. On another occasion, we started the diversion, but sadly the person died before it could be completed.

 

[simongr]

In my own circumstances we jumped quite a few slots due to my wife's medical issues. We went from 30 mins to landing to 5 mins to landing to we are landing in the space of about 5 mins flying BA into LHR.

 

[jb747]

In my own circumstances we jumped quite a few slots due to my wife's medical issues. We went from 30 mins to landing to 5 mins to landing to we are landing in the space of about 5 mins flying BA into LHR.

Treatment of medical priority varies around the world, but in general you are going to have to declare an emergency to get any priority at all.

 

[simongr]

She was having trouble breathing and was taken straight to the hospital out the front right hand side door in the ambulance lift...

 

[Katie]

Well, we were very grateful to the doctor who was asked to check on my FIL on QF32 on Mon 9/5 LHR-SIN. He got pretty shaky and out of it a few hours into the flight (was ok-ish in LHR, and the walk to the gate from the lounge probably didn't help him). We were about 3-4 hrs in, so not very far at all, when the FAs went looking for a doctor, and gave my FIL some oxygen.
I do wish I had thought of trying to find something to thank the doctor, if he'd be able to accept a gift. I don't think he came back through the rest of the flight to check up on my FIL, but we were sitting in row 18, and FIL was in 16, so I couldn't always see what was going on, and I had Little Miss to keep blissfully unaware of her grandfather being ill.

I did look at the map, in case it was decided my FIL was bad enough to require the flight to land, but unfortunately it was broken on our flight. We were 4 hrs in, and the map still showed us as over England.
Luckily, no re-direction or emergency landing was required, and FIL didn't object to the wheelchair that the FAs organised to take him through SIN airport. And the wheelchair dude wouldn't let my FIL out of the chair until we got into a taxi - he did try to get up at the baggage collection, probably starting to feel a bit embarassed about sitting in a wheelchair.

FIL then spent our SIN stopover time in the Raffles Hospital, luckily a short walk from our hotel. He was discharged Thurs afternoon, 3 hours before we went to the airport to fly home. The only big flight their points upgrades didn't come through on was that SIN-SYD one. Ah well, at least he was in J while sick (and not contagious or infecting other J pax)!

 

[jb747]

Coincidentally, I was just reading the International Herald Tribune, and it had an article about this very subject.

It makes the comment that in 2010, MedAire handled 19,000 inflight medical cases, of which 442 resulted in diversions, and 94 people died.

 

[Will]

Coincidentally, I was just reading the International Herald Tribune, and it had an article about this very subject.

It makes the comment that in 2010, MedAire handled 19,000 inflight medical cases, of which 442 resulted in diversions, and 94 people died.

Was it a modified version of the same article? I thought (possible incorrectly) that the IHT was a selection of content from the New York Times.

The NYT article was interesting article, if a bit haphazardly researched.

 

[jb747]

Dunno...just happened to be the paper on my hotel door.

 

[docjames]

Normally no, but I have seen it.


I'm sure (A) is hidden away in the bowels of the records, but wouldn't be available to mere mortals. I'd expect that they have no idea of (B).

From my own experience...I suspect medical assistance would be requested at some point on about 15% of long flights (much lower % on shorter). Mostly it turns out to be very minor.

I have never completed a medical diversion. On two occasions we have ramped up speeds right to the barber's pole, to get someone to the planned destination as quickly as possible, when either the medical facilities at the diversion points, or the weather, precluded an earlier landing. On another occasion, we started the diversion, but sadly the person died before it could be completed.

Thanks jb747. I'd have guessed that around rate from my own experience (i'd probably have put closer to 25% but your sample size is a hell of a lot bigger than mine!). Have had a few domestically too. Have only thought about requesting the captain divert once, and by the time I factored in what the distance to SYD rather than BNE was we were close enough to BNE that it wasnt going to (and fortunately didn't) matter.

 

[JohnK]

Thanks for posting docjames.

Very interesting article.

 

[drmikki]

Having just returned to Oz from my epic 6 month travels, I have a couple of different experiences to share on this topic.

First flight: Turkish Airlines J from IST-GRU (14 hours, much improved by the J flatbed!) - about 3 hours into the flight the call comes out for a doctor. Pt is (of all things) Bulgarian, and poor English, but has had allergies requiring hospitalisation and adrenaline before. Of course, he hasn't bothered to be tested for an allergy trigger or get the adrenaline pen he's been told to, and now his lips are starting swell.... Long story short, I get him to a quiet spot, track down the adrenaline (in case of disaster) and then a Brazilian doctor shows up who thankfully has some oral antihistamines, which work. (Darn, no chance to use a bread knife and a biro to make an airway!). Of course, then they work out where I am sitting... so I get called to someone with a headache ... yes, seriously (Medical advice: Panadol and water for dehydration), and later someone who feels faint. However, by the time I make it from 4D to the back of the plane, the hard-working Brazilian doctor is already there (she'd also been checking on allergy-guy through the flight) and shoos me away, pointing out the obvious fact that both she and the patient speak Brazilian Portuguese and I don't. Although the crew are grateful to us, there is no effort to take our details, there is not even any forms to fill in (I made my own casenotes on my laptop just in case) and when I ask about Medilink or any other medical advice services the crew looked at me blankly.

When I got back to J, I asked the crew if there were any spare J amenity packs and they pull one out and wave it at me, looking rather confused when I ask them to take it back to the poor Brazilian doc in Y. When I pointed out that she was stuck in cattle class and had been doing free work for them most of the flight they were a bit surprised and said "Oh, that's really nice of you to think of her...."


In stark contrast was my trip home the other day - QF Y (exit row without fee, not sure how I managed that!) HKG-PER. About 3.5 hours into the flight, a doctor page comes over the PA by the CSM (Wendy - a great CSM, and the rest of the crew were wonderful too). Since she's already brought my neighbour and I J blankets for the chilly exit row, and I am awake and sober, I respond. Minor case - vomiter who fainted for a second. By the time I see the passenger, they've finished vomiting and are feeling a bit better. I gave them some of my own stash of anti-nauseants (Ondansetron, for the medics reading) and suggest fluids and lying down. (Yep, not genius advice I am sorry to say!). CSM pops the passenger into J (Skybed 2) to lie down, then finds me for some paperwork and thanks me profusely. Half an hour later, CSM reappears with the dutyfree catalogue and tells me to pick out something as a token of appreciation from Qantas... Unexpected and probably undeserved!

Unfortunately before I get to finalise my selection, Wendy reappears and tells me there is a passenger with chest pain... I start to feel less guilty about QF's gift, realising that I might be earning it shortly, since we are still somewhere between Bali and NW WA. I manage her to the best of my ability (reasonably stable) and then wait a half hour or so while they try to get permission for me to come into the coughpit. After the powers-that-be decide that I am not planning my own 9/11, I get to go into the coughpit, which was pretty exciting! (Yep, adult, 55 flights last year and still excited by that... sad!) I get to speak to Medilink in the US via the coughpit radio - thankfully they agreed with what I'd done and didn't recommend any diversion (as wonderful as Port Hedland is...)


For the record, I got a lovely watch - and also a travel adapter for the poor long-suffering woman sitting next to me who got no sleep overnight! Thanks to QF, Wendy, the pilots/officers and crew who were wonderful and helpful people and I have no doubt they would have managed things brilliantly without a doctor onboard.

 

[anat0l]

Having just returned to Oz from my epic 6 month travels, I have a couple of different experiences to share on this topic.

First flight: Turkish Airlines J from IST-GRU (14 hours, much improved by the J flatbed!) - about 3 hours into the flight the call comes out for a doctor. Pt is (of all things) Bulgarian, and poor English, but has had allergies requiring hospitalisation and adrenaline before. Of course, he hasn't bothered to be tested for an allergy trigger or get the adrenaline pen he's been told to, and now his lips are starting swell.... Long story short, I get him to a quiet spot, track down the adrenaline (in case of disaster) and then a Brazilian doctor shows up who thankfully has some oral antihistamines, which work. (Darn, no chance to use a bread knife and a biro to make an airway!). Of course, then they work out where I am sitting... so I get called to someone with a headache ... yes, seriously (Medical advice: Panadol and water for dehydration), and later someone who feels faint. However, by the time I make it from 4D to the back of the plane, the hard-working Brazilian doctor is already there (she'd also been checking on allergy-guy through the flight) and shoos me away, pointing out the obvious fact that both she and the patient speak Brazilian Portuguese and I don't. Although the crew are grateful to us, there is no effort to take our details, there is not even any forms to fill in (I made my own casenotes on my laptop just in case) and when I ask about Medilink or any other medical advice services the crew looked at me blankly.

When I got back to J, I asked the crew if there were any spare J amenity packs and they pull one out and wave it at me, looking rather confused when I ask them to take it back to the poor Brazilian doc in Y. When I pointed out that she was stuck in cattle class and had been doing free work for them most of the flight they were a bit surprised and said "Oh, that's really nice of you to think of her...."


In stark contrast was my trip home the other day - QF Y (exit row without fee, not sure how I managed that!) HKG-PER. About 3.5 hours into the flight, a doctor page comes over the PA by the CSM (Wendy - a great CSM, and the rest of the crew were wonderful too). Since she's already brought my neighbour and I J blankets for the chilly exit row, and I am awake and sober, I respond. Minor case - vomiter who fainted for a second. By the time I see the passenger, they've finished vomiting and are feeling a bit better. I gave them some of my own stash of anti-nauseants (Ondansetron, for the medics reading) and suggest fluids and lying down. (Yep, not genius advice I am sorry to say!). CSM pops the passenger into J (Skybed 2) to lie down, then finds me for some paperwork and thanks me profusely. Half an hour later, CSM reappears with the dutyfree catalogue and tells me to pick out something as a token of appreciation from Qantas... Unexpected and probably undeserved!

Unfortunately before I get to finalise my selection, Wendy reappears and tells me there is a passenger with chest pain... I start to feel less guilty about QF's gift, realising that I might be earning it shortly, since we are still somewhere between Bali and NW WA. I manage her to the best of my ability (reasonably stable) and then wait a half hour or so while they try to get permission for me to come into the coughpit. After the powers-that-be decide that I am not planning my own 9/11, I get to go into the coughpit, which was pretty exciting! (Yep, adult, 55 flights last year and still excited by that... sad!) I get to speak to Medilink in the US via the coughpit radio - thankfully they agreed with what I'd done and didn't recommend any diversion (as wonderful as Port Hedland is...)


For the record, I got a lovely watch - and also a travel adapter for the poor long-suffering woman sitting next to me who got no sleep overnight! Thanks to QF, Wendy, the pilots/officers and crew who were wonderful and helpful people and I have no doubt they would have managed things brilliantly without a doctor onboard.

Bravo drmikki:!:

Responding to a medical is not a trivial undertaking, since you don't know the seriousness from the outset. My hat goes off to you.

 

[drmikki]

Aww thanks - although it's not that brave, better for me to help with my training and experience than shrink down in my seat and let the cabin crew deal with it. Plus as a non-drinker, I am always sober so can't use the pre-flight QP visit as an excuse...

Also, lets be honest, after 50+ flights on 20+ airlines in the past year, I am a bit sick of inflight entertainment, so it gave me something to do! :mrgreen:

I did get some weird looks on the TK flight though, traipsing down from J - when I got to Y I realised I was in my QF pyjamas still!

 

[awilcockson]

I guess I must be lucky, 170 flights, 100 of them international, and I've only heard the "is there a doctor on board" call once!

I just so happened to be sitting in the exit row in J, and the medical kit was stored in the locker above me. It was huge! And the doctor had it open on the floor in front of me while he searched for the drugs and needles/syringe that he was after.

Doctor was escorted back around 45 minutes later, I noticed he was now sitting in J just in front of me, and the CSM brought him a couple of bottles of wine. I thought that was generous and well deserved.

 

[rechoboam]

I will respond properly when I have more time but my first impression is that CC themselves should be able to deal with fainting, headaches, nausea etc. They do have training on good airlines. Sure,if things don't respond to a brief lie down then call the doctor. When someone faints in the classroom a doctor doesn't get called in immediately!

 

[KateMayo]

I don’t believe there are many members of the caring professions who could turn their backs on someone in need. The responsibility of stepping in is indeed huge but it gets put to the back of one’s mind.

Many flights but only once have I heard the dreaded if there is a doctor or nurse on board could they please make themselves known to the cabin crew. That was for a pax who’d suffered a stroke on board.

Slightly OT, and more recently, it was hard-rubbish collection and I drove past what I thought was a shop dummy in the middle of the road, only to realise, to my horror, that it was actually a cyclist face-down slowly drowning in his own blood.

I couldn’t turn my back, and suspect there are few of us who could.

 

[NM]

While I am certain not a doctor, I have scored an "upgrade" after assisting a passenger who fainted. I was seated in the Y exit row aisle seat on a BA 777 trans-Atlantic into LHR. An elderly passenger from forward of the exit row stood up to use the bathroom and fainted, so we helped the gentleman into the nearest accessible seat which was my aisle exit row. BA cabin crew were great and in typical Brittish style brought him a nice cup of tea to help recovery.

This was pre-1991, so I enquired about a flight deck visit while passenger was recovering in my seat. I spent the remainder of the flight in seat -1E right into LHR. Very interesting, especialy the safety briefing from the FA regarding Oxy mask and flight deck escape procedure involving holding onto this handle and "dropping" to the ground through the side window. I have no idea if the recovering passenger remained in my exit ro seat or returned to his original seat. I was happy :mrgreen:.

 

[awilcockson]

Slightly OT, and more recently, it was hard-rubbish collection and I drove past what I thought was a shop dummy in the middle of the road, only to realise, to my horror, that it was actually a cyclist face-down slowly drowning in his own blood.

I was mowing the lawn as a young teenager when a motorcyclist went over the bonnet of a car 5 meters from me. My father performed first aid whilst I watched, it is a sight I will never forget, and a reason that I maintain my senior first aid certification. To think that anyone could choose not to help someone in that situation is mind boggling.

 

[k_sheep]

Last week I had the CSM approach me asking if I were a medical or research doctor. I replied the former and they asked me to assist a crew member with chest pain. Sounded non urgert and were luckily 25min out so no diversion or treatment required. No offer or expectation of reward made.

Don't want to be practicing medicine on a metal tube though!

 

[drmikki]

k_sheep, can you tell us which airline and if they took your contact details? I got the feeling that the QF protocol was that they'd take down contact details and (supposedly) someone from the Qantas main office would contact you personally to thank you - or at least this is what the CSM on my flight thought would happen. I certainly didn't expect anything (and would respond to a call if physically/mentally capable without any expectation!) but it seemed as if the CSM made a decision herself to offer me something. No idea why she didn't just offer me wine - perhaps the FAs had spotted I had no alcohol with dinner? Although I think my neighbour was onto her second (or third?) bottle so someone would have been happy!