Virgin Weighing hand luggage

[anat0l]

My carry-on is rarely the gazetted 7kg. My laptop + set accessories are ~5kg alone, let alone the nominal documentation I have to carry with me (depending on the trip). And I hardly doubt my Targus backpack actually fits nicely in a size tester (either too tall or too fat sometimes).

For neither airline I've hardly ever had my hand luggage weighed. There have been a couple of times - particularly when my carry-on is a rollerboard - but they've always checked out. (Can't remember if my rollerboard was in the gazetted limit or not - i.e. did whoever was weighing it really care or not).

I am aware at BNE I and MEL T2 there is a notorious individual who is tasked with weighing random people for the hand baggage. So far I've escaped having to be weighed every time. I personally think that exercise should be enforced at the bag drop counter if necessary. Otherwise, people will not have a chance to repack properly (yes, we could argue that they should've checked the weights of all luggage in the first place, so it's still their fault.....true.....)

In any case, I could probably make it within the domestic guidelines of 2 x 7kg for QF or 1 x 7kg + 1 small item for DJ (the small item would be the laptop and charger if necessary). And in any case the airlines are free to clamp down on their rules. We could argue the practicalities of their enforcement (and the rules) all day long, but in the end if you choose to break set conditions then you risk getting caught and facing consequences, and getting away with it any number of times is not a valid excuse to plead that you should always get away with it. So I don't think it should be a prime reason to hate a carrier just because you get caught willingly breaking the allowances.

One time I did get pulled up was on ZL. They were quite adamant that my carry-on of 10kg was unacceptable, despite my checked bag only weighing 11kg (of a maximum 15kg). Well, we've all had those arguments before. Took me 2 repacks and a slight split in my checked bag before I got my carry-on down to 8kg - good enough. (In this case, it was a problem of space and not weight when trying to fit stuff in my checked bag. In hindsight I should've just offloaded a few items to my colleagues' carry-on until we got to SYD!)

And all kinds of airlines do it, not just LCCs.

 

[Austman]

Studies have found that the overhead bins are more likely to fill up before their weight limits are exceeded:

http://www.airsafetygroup.org/CAA2.pdf

 

[ash.1111]

I want to say that a DJ 737 full-sized overhead bin has a maximum weight placard of 53kg. For some reason that number is floating around in my head...

Not 100% sure though.

 

[travelislife]

Studies have found that the overhead bins are more likely to fill up before their weight limits are exceeded:

http://www.airsafetygroup.org/CAA2.pdf

Ok first up I want to clarify I am a structural engineer. The above statement is ridiculous. Safety factors are built in to all design so stating that volume surpasses weight is just crazy. Personnel safety is paramount that is why safety factors exist, for all the idiots that go over the weight.

Another thing from all the arguments on here, did no one read my post? I had my bags weighed for safety reasons but was then able to place everything back in the same bag so obviously 'safety' isn't really the issue as they wouldn't let me on the plane.

I dont think LCC is an issue here so let's drop that completely.

 

[drron]

But what does it matter if you have 7Kg or 10Kg of baggage, providing the volume is within the rules?

Totally agree!My usual carryon fits all the sizers-it has been in them all-admittedly just fits sometimes.Now if I put my laptop bag in it it will weigh over 7kg.Take it out and I am under.eg today it is 8.4kg.The funny thing is that if my carryon is weighed and over and they wish to make a scene about it I simply remove my computer.Now under.And allowed to go no questions asked.

Same weight I am taking on plane but now 2 bags instead of one.But of course it always goes back in.It is the people taking more than 1 bag(or >2 on QF)that annoy me most.

And KPC-you lose-~ 39kg coming back from DPS on QF in the 80s.Fortunately it was a 747 and we were up the front downstairs so it went in the front locker.Both boarding and deplaning was aked by an FA if I wanted a hand-a terse no-I didn't want them to know how much it weighed!Was full of Lombok pottery.
Worse part was we landed at the old BNE international terminal-it was hard getting down the stairs and into the terminal.

 

[Austman]

Studies have found that the overhead bins are more likely to fill up before their weight limits are exceeded:

http://www.airsafetygroup.org/CAA2.pdf

Ok first up I want to clarify I am a structural engineer. The above statement is ridiculous.

And yet the Group Director of the Safety Regulation Group of the Civil Aviation Authority (UK) says exactly that.

 

[dfcatch]

I wished airlines were MORE active in enforcing and partolling cabin carry on. Seriously if airlines did it more, yes it will inconvenience those who ignore limits but overall it will be BETTER for all the majority of flyers. at least my bag will be above my seat rather than 6 rows back!!

And how the heck does checking hand carry mean the airline is a LCC?!? i see no logic to that point, fly within the rules or cop the consequences

Your bags are 6 rows back because people are carrying on the kitchen sink.

Why are they doing this?

Because LCCs (and QF previously known as a full service airline trying to be a LCC) are now charging for checked baggage.

This results in people cramming as much into the cabin as they can, and you having no room for your bags above your seat.

The checked baggage charges are the cause of the problem, and the LCC nature is the reason for it.

---------------

On another note, I noticed in AKL with the expansion of Smartgate, that the scale ladies have moved and even "precleared premium pax" have to walk passed them.

We were waived over the other day, but as soon as they saw the Preclearance stickers on our BPs, they just said "oh, precleared? No need, please continue "

 

[pauly7]

Your bags are 6 rows back because people are carrying on the kitchen sink.

Why are they doing this?

Because LCCs (and QF previously known as a full service airline trying to be a LCC) are now charging for checked baggage.

QF do not charge for checked baggage.... Like every other airline on Earth they do charge for excess baggage.

 

[dfcatch]

QF do not charge for checked baggage.... Like every other airline on Earth they do charge for excess baggage.

You understood my point - I was just having a crack at QF's personality problem - where it can't decide whether to be a Premium Airline or LCC .

Oh - and mark my words - if AJ stays in the top job - then it's only a matter of time until QF starts offering "seat only" fares.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Rules are rules - DJ stipulate max 7Kg cabin baggage that's it folks.

If DJ stipulated prior to boarding you must touch your toes 3 times then that is the rule. Because this is not always 'enforced' does not make it any less of a rule. Speeding is not always enforced, yet the speed limit should always be obeyed.

Is DJ a LCC or full service carrier? That is another thread.

 

[Flashback]

I know SQ used to weigh carry on at check-in in Perth. It is fairly quick and what I consider effective. Does that make them LCC?

The funny thing is you would always get stopped by the man at the door before passport control as well.

Yep, 95% of the time I've had the same thing. Usually flashing a J or F boarding pass gives you a free pass through, though...

Well of course not, gate agents and check in agents have to be diligent and identify particular passengers who are obviously carrying too much onboard. Granted, it's easier for international because everyone has to present themselves at check in to get their passport swiped and your hand luggage is on display.

Not always.... when I check-in I often leave my carry-on with someone else (who isn't checking in) so it doesn't get the visual once over.

 

[loobloke]

And yet the Group Director of the Safety Regulation Group of the Civil Aviation Authority (UK) says exactly that.

That's probably because he's more of a politician than engineer.

Safety factors are not there so you can safely exceed the stipulated value. They are there for unexpected events.

 

[simongr]

Can we split out the "carrying on the kitchen sink" from being over the weight limit?

Most complaints I hear about hand luggage are that people get annoyed with people carrying on so much that it fills the overhead bins. This is different to people carrying on one piece that is over the 7KG limit. My rollaboard fits end on in a 737 and my laptop bag goes under the seat in front.

This is not about filling up the bins this is about weight.

 

[Austman]

That's probably because he's more of a politician than engineer.

She - Gretchen Burrett - seems very well respected in Aviation Safety. She attended the US Air Force (USAF) Academy and has a BSc in Human Factors Engineering.

 

[Alanslegal]

Each airlines have their rules with respect to weight and size/volume so as long as people follow that then that's fine. If you've exceeeded those limits, and are randomly checked, then "tooo bad - too sad" I say, and face the consequences.

If the terms of flight says your only allowed 7kgs and 20cm x 20cm x 20cm or whatever limits, I don't care if the overhead bins can handle 1,000kgs or 10,000cm3 because at the end of the day ..... you agreed on 7kgs and 20x20x20! If you can't handle those terms, then fly someone else. It's that easy.

 

[dfcatch]

Can we split out the "carrying on the kitchen sink" from being over the weight limit?

Most complaints I hear about hand luggage are that people get annoyed with people carrying on so much that it fills the overhead bins. This is different to people carrying on one piece that is over the 7KG limit. My rollaboard fits end on in a 737 and my laptop bag goes under the seat in front.

This is not about filling up the bins this is about weight.

Agreed - and fair call..... Except that I suspect the "enforcement" is brought on by concern by the airline over people bringing on the "kitchen sink" both in weight (safety concern) AND quantum (overhead bin space concern).

So I do believe the issues are related - and that there is a "cause and effect" vis a vis checked baggage charges.

 

[simongr]

So I do believe the issues are related - and that there is a "cause and effect" vis a vis checked baggage charges.

This is where I see the link to LCC - using controls over hand luggage to force people to check luggage to make them pay for checked luggage.

 

[Austman]

This is where I see the link to LCC - using controls over hand luggage to force people to check luggage to make them pay for checked luggage.

... by lying to passengers when they say the 7kg limit is for safety reasons. If you are going to limit it, at least be honest and say 'it's company policy'.

 

[dfcatch]

This is where I see the link to LCC - using controls over hand luggage to force people to check luggage to make them pay for checked luggage.

Yes this is true IMO.

I do also believe that the carry-on enforcement isn't "just" to "force" people to pay to check bags. I do believe it is a good thing to enforce the rules. My point was simply that I feel the "checked luggage fees" have caused a societal change which has resulted in more cabin baggage issues.

Chicken or egg situation I suppose.....

 

[SeaWolf]

Can we split out the "carrying on the kitchen sink" from being over the weight limit? Most complaints I hear about hand luggage are that people get annoyed with people carrying on so much that it fills the overhead bins.

This is a pet peeve of mine. It's very, very frustrating to get onto a flight carrying just my tiny messenger satchel and to then end up with it in my leg space because other passengers are bringing steamer trunks into the cabin. However, I've gotta say that the problem here is nothing compared to the state of affairs in North America. I just got back from a trip through the US and the only flight I was on where there wasn't an insane amount of gear being brought into the cabin was a Porter Airlines flight, which provided free checked baggage. The United, Continental and Air Canada flights I was on had people bringing stuff into the cabin that was just nuts. People just seemed to assume that it if would fit through the aircraft door it was obviously fine. The staff also seemed very reluctant to challenge anyone on it either. The solution seemed to be to wait until the overhead space was totally filled then ask passengers if there was anything in there that they could fit under-seat, then tell the remaining passengers that it either went under the seat or into the hold (at a fee).

Having said that, this is the state of things at the moment and I just don't see the airlines reversing the fee-for-bag policy. So, I'm inclined to agree with simongr, it's the space, not the weight that's the issue. I think it's reasonable to tell passengers they can have as much under the seat as they want, but you get one and only one bag in the overhead and the dimension limits should be enforced without mercy.

Of course, a lot of this would go away if they just gave you a checked bag for free. I think a lot of passengers would prefer to just check the damn thing and not have to worry about fighting for the overhead lockers or dragging the thing around the airport and onto and off of the plane.