Will Melbourne get Rail link to Tullamarine

[katiebell]

rail really makes a difference when arriving at an airport. Look at FRA & ZRH: stations underneath that link into an excellent rail network. We definitely need one

 

[jsoprano]

I'm afraid I can't do that, as much as I'd like to IIRC the AVV spur line was an election promise from Ted Baillieu. Maybe he can help with the lotto numbers :!:

Don't want to be political (rather polemic) - but picking the one election promise that they might actually deliver on is almost as good as guessing the lotto numbers.

 

[dajop]

stations underneath that link into an excellent rail network. We definitely need one

Need one or need both? The question is which should come first ... "a link into ..." or "an excellent rail network" ?

On a related, but more serious note one of the issues - is current airport transport "good enough" that capital investment in rail be best spent in actually developing the rail network first elsewhere (eg Doncaster, Rowville, Eddington tunnel etc)?

 

[rechoboam]

I doubt it will ever happen - goes into the 'too expensive' basket.

In saying that, I concur about the Skybus. Very efficent, quick, runs frequently. The only delay is people boarding and getting off with all of thier bags, and sometimes you have to wait because it is full. Even the price is reasonable.

It would be interesting if another operator could operate to a different location in the city.

I got the airport bus in Vienna when I spent a lot of time there. My visitors were horrified I didn't hire them a cab but who needed it. Tokyo too, the bus was fantastic and had wifi. Geneva- local train. London- airport express train was more expensive mile by mile than any other trip on earth I believe. Tube was ok but slow, used minicabs mainly...

People are just obsessed with trains. I can't work out why that is.

 

[rechoboam]

I would like to see it being done on the same model as FRA. Highspeed rail link Melbourne - Sydney that hooks in with MEL airport. Possibly with suburban options as well, what about a rail line out to Sunbury somewhere, Is there one already? It terms of pay off the rail line needs to be structured to remove cars from the road. Even if you can get one in 4 cars going to the airport converted to train (oh and remove skybus) that is going to reduce road congestion and the save in needing to upgrade roads in the longer term.

Read the new book "conundrum" , if large numbers of people start using a rail link I and others will just start enjoying driving into the airport on the empty roads (until they fill up again). Even valet parking would reduce in price due to low demand.

 

[seanpodge]

As cool as the Shanghai Maglev is (I went on it a month ago and it's bloody fantastic!), it is a bit of a white elephant (no problems getting a seat on board, particularly given that there is already a subway link to PVG for about 80% cheaper than maglev) and it would be a ridiculous waste of money to use it for a MEL rail link. No one in the private sector would dare flush their money down the toilet for it and the government wouldn't go near it either.

In any case, the examples of the SYD and BNE rail links is surely that people are highly price sensitive. People clearly won't use it no matter how flashy it is if it isn't also at a reasonable price (as defined by them, not by some PPP rort). If the MEL rail link is to work, it has be come under the current Metlink fare structure without surcharges. This will most likely mean that it will be a standard rail line with standard carriages. The only possible specialisation I could think as probable would be to have the front carriage have luggage racks. Given the desire of airlines to charge ungodly amounts for checked bags, luggage racks aren't as vital for such a service as they used to be.

Beyond that, it should be the same as any other line. Most likely this would be a spur off of the Craigieburn line, although if the governement was imaginative (I know, lol) it could have a new line or extension of the Showgrounds line serving suburbs in the North West. There is a freight line that is a bit delapitated that if repaired could form a useful connection as well. In the fansaty land of my head, the government would build a new line over the northern suburbs that connected the Hurstbridge, Epping, Upfield and Craigieburn lines terminating at MEL or continuning to St Albans. If the high speed rail line to Sydney is ever built, then a station could be built at MEL with a premium fare charged.

In the meantime, MEL could improve the public transport situation by moving the Metlink bus stops back to out the front of the main terminal building. Although given that MEL appears to have been the ones who moved it out in the first place, maybe the government will have to belt them back into line. It could also try to bring Skybus under the Metlink fare system or at the very least include Zone 1+2 in the Skybus ticket price (with an approporiate refund system for people who by the Skybus ticket at Spencer Street station).

 

[Sprucegoose]

I thought it might be interresting to get some opinions on whether Melbourne will get a Rail link to Tulla. This is an issue that has been in and out of the media, and political area for over 40 years. Last year we went on the Maglev in Shanghia, and the first thought was that we have to have one going to Tulla airport. For those of you who have not been on it, you are really missing something, 480KPH of wow this is good.
How do others feel about this, and what are there thoughts.
Please try to keep Politics out of it.

That is simply not possible. All decisions are a result of Politics. (the art of he possible).

Random Statement: A rail link will mean 1000 fewer teaches, nurses and police. Now tell me how you keep the politics out of this!

What rail link to an airport in this country has made money?

There is no business case, which is the real problem. What private consortium will invest without government support?

 

[smit0847]

The rail link to Tulla is an argument almost as old as time itself!

I catch the Skybus regularly (every few weeks). I find it to be a very efficient service, and even in peak has never taken longer than about 25 minutes each way. I do think its expensive though (I think its $16 each way now?). However, unless your trip is less than 24 hours its cheaper than long term parking.

If rail is built it will never come under the Metlink system - I think Adelaide is the only city in Australia that has an airport transfer at normal PT prices. It will be so expensive to build that they will have to charge accordingly and even express i doubt it would be much quicker than the sky bus.

Apparently the Citylink contract forbidding competing travel to the airport is only if that competing travel is freight which am airport train would not be.

I can't see it happening in my lifetime unfortunately. The location of Melbourne airport isnt going to change and with the skybus I really dont think the system is that bad (we could be flying out of AVV lol!)

 

[serfty]

... I think Adelaide is the only city in Australia that has an airport transfer at normal PT prices. . ...

As indicated by seanpodge a metcard will get you in/out of MEL, it's just a 500 metre walk from the bus stop these days to T1:

In the meantime, MEL could improve the public transport situation by moving the Metlink bus stops back to out the front of the main terminal building. Although given that MEL appears to have been the ones who moved it out in the first place, maybe the government will have to belt them back into line. ...

 

[rechoboam]

That is simply not possible. All decisions are a result of Politics. (the art of he possible).

Random Statement: A rail link will mean 1000 fewer teaches, nurses and police. Now tell me how you keep the politics out of this!

What rail link to an airport in this country has made money?

There is no business case, which is the real problem. What private consortium will invest without government support?

If there is no business case it shouldn't be built. Unless there are community advantages that can't be captured except through government support. If it is worth it I expect people would pay for the advantages, but they won't.

 

[markis10]

In any case, the examples of the SYD and BNE rail links is surely that people are highly price sensitive. People clearly won't use it no matter how flashy it is if it isn't also at a reasonable price (as defined by them, not by some PPP rort). If the MEL rail link is to work, it has be come under the current Metlink fare structure without surcharges.

I dont agree there, and the examples you use are not flashy which is the real issue, I am sure people would be happy to pay the price on offer if it was a dedicated train with luggage space and limited stops to the city, both your examples are simply normal trains on a normal network, HKG is an example where it works.

 

[seanpodge]

I dont agree there, and the examples you use are not flashy which is the real issue, I am sure people would be happy to pay the price on offer if it was a dedicated train with luggage space and limited stops to the city, both your examples are simply normal trains on a normal network, HKG is an example where it works.

Got me on the flashy examples part, I'll have to admit. But I still strongly doubt that a few luggage racks and express services would make a premium price service viable. Can't be sure with BNE, but isn't one of the main complaints about the SYD rail link that its fares are uncompetitive with taxi fares? If so, given that a taxi offers door to door service plus luggage room, why would people pay about the same (or more if traveling in a group) for an inferior service? Since changing the trainsets will only solve one of the outlined issues at great cost, surely the best way to try to raise patronage would be to bring fares into line with the rest of the Sydney rail network.

Having a premium rail link also doesn't solve the issue of transport for airport workers, unless someone (most likely the government) is going to subsidise it.

 

[markis10]

As someone who uses the Sydney link, my complaint is getting space to board during peak hour. For the bulk of travelers, it's cheaper than a taxi into the city when there is three or less passengers and a hell of a lot quicker, you just have to stand often!

As for the airport workers, what issue, they have access to very competitive fares, a $25 weekly for BNE, which is cheaper that any other weekly on the network! Sydney works pay $18 for their airport weekly gate pass, on top of a normal weekly.

 

[Dalescott]

There is no doubt that needs an airport rail link. It is the only truly efficient mass transport method available. The issue is would it be better to have standard rail, an extension of the existing system, or fast rail or maglev. I am a huge fan of maglev, and yes I know that there are issue with it, but there are issue with all forms of mass rail transport. It's a pity that successive state governments have not had the courage to address this issue.

 

[markis10]

I could see a lot of use for a loop running CBD - AVV - MEL and vv, whilst many Victorians bemoan AVVs existence, it is a luxury many other cities would love to have and will become more valuable over time.

 

[Isochronous]

I could see a lot of use for a loop running CBD - AVV - MEL and vv, whilst many Victorians bemoan AVVs existence, it is a luxury many other cities would love to have and will become more valuable over time.

Better than SYD which is still buggering around as to whether to build an airport at Badgery's Creek (which they ought to) or not!

 

[rechoboam]

There is no doubt that needs an airport rail link. It is the only truly efficient mass transport method available. The issue is would it be better to have standard rail, an extension of the existing system, or fast rail or maglev. I am a huge fan of maglev, and yes I know that there are issue with it, but there are issue with all forms of mass rail transport. It's a pity that successive state governments have not had the courage to address this issue.

Capital costs of 1.2 billion on maglev or a few thousand to put up dedicated 24/7 bus lane signage and a couple of bus stops? I know which I would choose. Especially if I were paying. If you had to fund an equivalent decision scaled down to your own household would you go for the sexy option that cost a million times more?

 

[Sprucegoose]

If it happens, I would have thought it would just match the current heavy rail system that Melbourne has got (i.e. it will be an extension of it). Can't see any fancy maglev stuff happening.

Why hurry and wait!

 

[medhead]

Sydney works pay $18 for their airport weekly gate pass, on top of a normal weekly.

And if their weekly starts or ends at the airport the gate pass is included.

Capital costs of 1.2 billion on maglev or a few thousand to put up dedicated 24/7 bus lane signage and a couple of bus stops? I know which I would choose. Especially if I were paying. If you had to fund an equivalent decision scaled down to your own household would you go for the sexy option that cost a million times more?

It costs much more than a few thousand to put up signs and a couple of bus stops. A bus lane also costs more than just a couple of signs. What is the cost of road congestion? Policing the bus lane? Expanding the road to include a bus lane? It doesn't take long to make a normal rail link worthwhile, no matter how much one loves the skybus.


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[nlagalle]

And if their weekly starts or ends at the airport the gate pass is included.



It costs much more than a few thousand to put up signs and a couple of bus stops. A bus lane also costs more than just a couple of signs. What is the cost of road congestion? Policing the bus lane? Expanding the road to include a bus lane? It doesn't take long to make a normal rail link worthwhile, no matter how much one loves the skybus.


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Unfortunately in Melbourne's case for the rail link to be effective it would need to be a dedicated rail link from the airport to Southern Cross. This is because of the crowding of the line between southern cross and North Melbourne. It would cost over 1 billion to build IIRC. The bus is still certainly the cost effective option.