Pricing, it's happened.

[dandandan]

So will I remain a loyal Virigin customer, not if they are ridiculously pricing compared to the competition....it's risible and now I am going to be cautious on all my bookings, this smacks of hubris and I feel strongly because of it.

I was looking at taking the family, 3 of us, on a weekend trip to Melbourne in August. Leave on a Friday flight sometime after 5pm and before 8pm and come back on a Sunday between 3pm and 5pm. On Virgin I could find nothing departing on any Friday night between these times for under $175. With Qantas there is many $99 dollar flights between these times on every Friday in August. Virign is over 43% higher for their cheapest flights. On the Sunday journeys home, there was a few Virign flights home between my nominated times for $125 and there was nothing cheaper except for one Sunday, 10th Augst at $85 at 3pm. Basically 26% higher on the way home at the minimum except for the one flight which is cheaper. Times all this by 3 and there is no way i would pay this premium for Virign...this would pay for the weekends accommodation.

Previously before this I didn't/haven't been comparing prices and just booked with Virign, most recently for weekend to OOL on Friday July 20 weekend...I have become very loyal to Virgin and I now say this is the last time that happens this way Virgin. I am not going to accept this is a Qantas or any other airline extra capacity issue either, it's not, as Virign would have to match or better prices if so and it's not clearly a weekend away premium price issue if Qantas is pricing at these prices. I am sure many customers will discover this. I also now have a Oneworld Sapphire so if I go with Qantas I will get J lounge access and only thing I will not get is row 3 or priority boarding, plus a bit of status and points but Platinum is almost renewed before Feb 13 review anyway. I can also still go Virgin lounge with anytime access if i want as well.

Has anyone else or is anyone else experiencing this?

 

[pat25d]

I have noticed an increase in prices, however I am sure shareholders would rather Virgin sell tickets for the price they have calculated to give a profitable return than get involved with price wars with a dying competitor.

 

[moa999]

Have certainly seen this on syd-bne with Virgin only showing peak times in the top $395 bucket close to the date whilst Qantas has plenty of $200 fares.
As always shop around.

 

[james4321]

That may be true of shareholders, but the travelling public will always be swayed by lower prices.

 

[dandandan]

I agree with the shareholder comment however the pricing in my example is so far off the mark that shareholders will complain when the yield numbers drop of for Virgin when not selling enough seats....anyway one of the number one rules in investing is don't invest in airlines!

I have noticed an increase in prices, however I am sure shareholders would rather Virgin sell tickets for the price they have calculated to give a profitable return than get involved with price wars with a dying competitor.

 

[dandandan]

And it's going to sway a Platinum member who has been happy to support Virigin and not compare. I will also note that this does not appear to be a result of the recent sales pricing either.

That may be true of shareholders, but the travelling public will always be swayed by lower prices.

 

[loobloke]

As a frequently ADL/MEL (Fri arvo or Sat morning and return Sun arvo) weekend flyer I can say its been happening for quite some time. The yield management on DJ appears to be much less flexible than that of QF. Often see multiple sale fares across the board on QF at those times whilst on DJ only the more expensive saver fares are available.

 

[pat25d]

I agree with the shareholder comment however the pricing in my example is so far off the mark that shareholders will complain when the yield numbers drop of for Virgin when not selling enough seats....anyway one of the number one rules in investing is don't invest in airlines!

Except that with Yield Management, higher prices normally mean they have sold enough tickets of the lower fare buckets.

If Qantas is 50% cheaper, then they have more than likely been left with too much capacity.

An extreme example would be claiming that Virgin are crazy because tickets are $400, 30 minutes before the flight, when in reality they are just following YM. Extreme I know, but thats how it works (even if it appears illogical).

 

[dandandan]

I did start to look at Adelaide as well but didn't bother looking through every weekend as it was appearing much the same.

As a frequently ADL/MEL (Fri arvo or Sat morning and return Sun arvo) weekend flyer I can say its been happening for quite some time. The yield management on DJ appears to be much less flexible than that of QF. Often see multiple sale fares across the board on QF at those times whilst on DJ only the more expensive saver fares are available.

 

[loobloke]

Or it could just mean QF offer more tickets in the lower fare bucket that DJ does. Which I suspect is true as the QF flights still seem ~80% full, on a similar level to DJ ones.

Whilst not the best for shareholders, I like cheaper seats

 

[oz_mark]

I've seen this go both ways (and I have commented elsewhere that much of my recent personal travel has been one carrier one way, and another for the return).

In this case, I'd just book Qantas.

 

[dandandan]

You would think that's the case, so I started checking Feb 2013, it's the same. Virgin is far more expensive compared to Qantas for these peak weekend times. Maybe it's a strategy or maybe they have already sold the lower fare buckets into next year as well, don't think so!

Except that with Yield Management, higher prices normally mean they have sold enough tickets of the lower fare buckets.

If Qantas is 50% cheaper, then they have more than likely been left with too much capacity.

An extreme example would be claiming that Virgin are crazy because tickets are $400, 30 minutes before the flight, when in reality they are just following YM. Extreme I know, but thats how it works (even if it appears illogical).

 

[lovestotravel]

Yes, Virgin is becoming more and more expensive and Qantas is becoming cheaper

People are still leaving Qantas and flying Qantas for many reasons.

As a result, overall, it's harder to get a cheap fare on Virgin, outside of sale periods

I am very loyal to Virgin as their service overall is far superior to Qantas I feel

That being said I just booked a Qantas fare, as they were about $50 cheaper than Virgin on the date/time that I wanted and as it's a MEL-SYD I get about the same number of FF points

 

[straitman]

Last week I booked a CBR-MEL with about a three day lead time and DJ were considerably cheaper and with better times and flexibility than Qantas.

I think they actually work off quite different Yield Management models but find they are both better or worse on occasions.

 

[dandandan]

And there you go, $50 cheaper to Qantas and they get the business, time this by the general public and the swing back in momentum will be huge.

I think in the current economic environment people are looking at the cost of everything and voting on price. $10, $20 more etc, no problems I would pay for Virgin. I have been a massive loyal supporter of the turnaround strategy and critical of Qantas to the point of classifying Virigin as Australia's Apple and Qantas Microsoft. With all my travel self funded, $300 more to have a family trip to Melbourne, I would be crazy to pay this premium for virtually the same product.

Maybe Virgin got a copy of the Brumby's memo.

Yes, Virgin is becoming more and more expensive and Qantas is becoming cheaper

People are still leaving Qantas and flying Qantas for many reasons.

As a result, overall, it's harder to get a cheap fare on Virgin, outside of sale periods

I am very loyal to Virgin as their service overall is far superior to Qantas I feel

That being said I just booked a Qantas fare, as they were about $50 cheaper than Virgin on the date/time that I wanted and as it's a MEL-SYD I get about the same number of FF points

 

[dandandan]

CBR will always be cheap on both. I have done SYD-CBR recently and passenger numbers are very low. No offence to the Canberrian's but who wants to fly to CBR except Politician's

Last week I booked a CBR-MEL with about a three day lead time and DJ were considerably cheaper and with better times and flexibility than Qantas.

I think they actually work off quite different Yield Management models but find they are both better or worse on occasions.

 

[straitman]

CBR will always be cheap on both. I have done SYD-CBR recently and passenger numbers are very low. No offence to the Canberrian's but who wants to fly to CBR except Politician's

The flights were either full or near full.

I booked on an indirect and better timed (than Qantas) flight and then Virgin managed to move me to the direct, fully booked flight.

 

[pat25d]

And there you go, $50 cheaper to Qantas and they get the business, time this by the general public and the swing back in momentum will be huge.

I think in the current economic environment people are looking at the cost of everything and voting on price. $10, $20 more etc, no problems I would pay for Virgin. I have been a massive loyal supporter of the turnaround strategy and critical of Qantas to the point of classifying Virigin as Australia's Apple and Qantas Microsoft. With all my travel self funded, $300 more to have a family trip to Melbourne, I would be crazy to pay this premium for virtually the same product.

Maybe Virgin got a copy of the Brumby's memo.

Funny analogy given the price premium of Apple products to Microsoft, which the 'general public' are willing to pay.

 

[lovestotravel]

CBR will always be cheap on both. I have done SYD-CBR recently and passenger numbers are very low. No offence to the Canberrian's but who wants to fly to CBR except Politician's

MEL-CBR loads are quite good, although the next 6ish weeks are "winter break" so loads will be VERY low

 

[dandandan]

Actually, I missed the point of my original post in responding to yours. We are not looking at periods of 1 week or a few days before here etc. The periods I looked at are reasonable lead times, minimum of one month up to 2 months out. You don't expect rock bottom ticket prices on either 1 to 2 months out but the differential between the 2 is huge percentage wise, with the Qantas prices being realistic. This is the case in Feb 2013 as well. I have not looked at every month but thought I would see how it looked that far out and when school is back etc.

The flights were either full or near full.

I booked on an indirect and better timed (than Qantas) flight and then Virgin managed to move me to the direct, fully booked flight.