Femtocells for QP International & Velocity Lounge International?

[here2go]

Hey there AFFable people

Crazy idea just popped into my head, how awesome would it be if QP and Velocity Lounges installed Aussie Femtocells so we could use our phones as though we were at home, rather than pay OS rates? Especially for transit - who wants to buy a local sim when you are there for three hours? I'm sure there would be legal reasons to prevent it, and also only Optus has them at present, but to me it sounds like winning idea that wouldn't cost an awful lot for QP and VP to implement. Thoughts?

 

[drewbles]

Femtocells are designed to do nothing more than provide coverage in a black spot. Most Femtocells only have allowance for a very limited number of devices, and do not cope with more than 1-2 simultaneous connections.

Also, Femtocells are generally GPS restricted. The Cisco AT&T ones in the USA require clear line-of-site to the sky (or the use of an external antennae) to ensure it's being used in the correct area; AT&T will only allow their use where network coverage is less-than-perfect or a proven black spot.

Considering people roaming are usually arriving into the country, the immediate need would be to use their service on landing. As there are no genuine arrivals lounge in Australia, it's a moot point.

As for the three hours, use skype or similar to call home. It's just not viable to install Femtocells (and is not the right technology; they're very low powered and have a very limited range, as well as being in licenced frequency ranges; using an overseas carriers frequency would violate the ACMA's rules as well as various laws).

RF stuff is never so simple unfortunately!.

(of course, I write this having a reasonable knowledge of Femtocells, as well as working for a company that does pre-paid global roaming SIM cards; buy one of those from somewhere and then you don't need a Femtocell )

 

[v8Statesman]

Regulatory red tape and spectrum licensing issues aside. I love the idea. Next Telstra Next G in all the AC's.

Maybe a few towers around GRB too ;-)


Sent from my Telstra iPhone using the Australian Frequent Flyer application.

 

[drewbles]

Regulatory red tape and spectrum licensing issues aside. I love the idea. Next Telstra Next G in all the AC's.

Maybe a few towers around GRB too ;-)


Sent from my Telstra iPhone using the Australian Frequent Flyer application.

Not gunna happen AT&T and Telstra both use 850mHz which is likely to introduce other problems. Then, LTE is being rolled out as well, another kettle of fish (even though it's different frequencies).

There's a reason as you say there's spectrum licencing and the like (and just cause you're in the USA you're not allowed to spell it licensing).

 

[oz_mark]

There's a reason as you say there's spectrum licencing and the like (and just cause you're in the USA you're not allowed to spell it licensing).

I spell it spectrum licensing, as that's how ACMA spells it!

 

[markis10]

Femtocells are designed to do nothing more than provide coverage in a black spot. Most Femtocells only have allowance for a very limited number of devices, and do not cope with more than 1-2 simultaneous connections.

Also, Femtocells are generally GPS restricted. The Cisco AT&T ones in the USA require clear line-of-site to the sky (or the use of an external antennae) to ensure it's being used in the correct area; AT&T will only allow their use where network coverage is less-than-perfect or a proven black spot.

Considering people roaming are usually arriving into the country, the immediate need would be to use their service on landing. As there are no genuine arrivals lounge in Australia, it's a moot point.

As for the three hours, use skype or similar to call home. It's just not viable to install Femtocells (and is not the right technology; they're very low powered and have a very limited range, as well as being in licenced frequency ranges; using an overseas carriers frequency would violate the ACMA's rules as well as various laws).

RF stuff is never so simple unfortunately!.

(of course, I write this having a reasonable knowledge of Femtocells, as well as working for a company that does pre-paid global roaming SIM cards; buy one of those from somewhere and then you don't need a Femtocell )

The GPS locking is a means of licence compliancy enforcement for home users rather than carrier operated cells so its not relevant in this context, given its a licensed radio it does need to be geostationary at all times in most ITU countries licensing schema for such devices. While RF is not simple as you say, the idea in this case is very simple domestically at least, given Optus already have the contract for the WiFi on the lounges and therefore have a PUP onsite.

If you have an Alcatel Lucent Phone System in your small business, having a Femtocell in the QP would be very handy indeed if properly configured, effectively putting you at your desk when it comes to converged communications as you leave the macrocell, offering significant increases in functionality beyond what a normal 3G phone can provide.

There is also another option which is Hotspot 2.0 or 3G offload, which has not yet been implemented locally, and would use WIFI rather than 3G to the last mile, also offering improved benefits beyond just call cost based ones.

Femtocells are designed to do far more than provide blackspot coverage.

 

[markis10]

I spell it spectrum licensing, as that's how ACMA spells it!

To be pedantic, we are talking about device licences, not spectrum licences in this context!

 

[v8Statesman]

Mark actually both. As you need licensed spectrum in the country you propose to use them in.


Sent from my Telstra iPhone using the Australian Frequent Flyer application.

 

[markis10]

Mark actually both. As you need licensed spectrum in the country you propose to use them in.


Sent from my Telstra iPhone using the Australian Frequent Flyer application.

Licenced Spectrum and a spectrum licence are two different things! For instance Optus does not have a Spectrum Licence for its 900MHz bands, it has an apparatus licence, but we are getting OT!

 

[v8Statesman]

I stand corrected. It 11pm here. I'm tired


Sent from my Telstra iPhone using the Australian Frequent Flyer application.

 

[markis10]

In terms of the OPs idea, there are currently trials in place that offer significant advantages to users in such a scenario, last year ALU introduced a SDK in conjunction with Accenture and Telecom Italia.

Some of the subsequent SDK Trials for femtocells include:

• Family connection, which informs parents of the safe arrival of kids from school;
• Meet and greet, which uses a femtocell to detect the proximity of a user to the arrival gate at an airport and enables personalized greetings to be displayed;
• Security and home control monitoring;
• Customer behaviour analysis;
• Fleet management;
• e-journal, which broadcasts news or sports replays to a large number of users at once.

Alcatel-Lucent has also introduced an “e-tourism” smart app – this has already generated great demand from many operators, including Telecom Italia.

 

[drewbles]

I spell it spectrum licensing, as that's how ACMA spells it!

I didn't realise the ACMA was the *american*CMA

 

[drewbles]

The GPS locking is a means of licence compliancy enforcement for home users rather than carrier operated cells so its not relevant in this context, given its a licensed radio it does need to be geostationary at all times in most ITU countries licensing schema for such devices. While RF is not simple as you say, the idea in this case is very simple domestically at least, given Optus already have the contract for the WiFi on the lounges and therefore have a PUP onsite.

If you have an Alcatel Lucent Phone System in your small business, having a Femtocell in the QP would be very handy indeed if properly configured, effectively putting you at your desk when it comes to converged communications as you leave the macrocell, offering significant increases in functionality beyond what a normal 3G phone can provide.

There is also another option which is Hotspot 2.0 or 3G offload, which has not yet been implemented locally, and would use WIFI rather than 3G to the last mile, also offering improved benefits beyond just call cost based ones.

Femtocells are designed to do far more than provide blackspot coverage.

Femtocells are designed to provide blackspot coverage. Microcells do a lot more. Aircraft that are equipped with in-flight GSM stations are using Microcells. These are more likely what would need to be installed here.

 

[markis10]

Femtocells are designed to provide blackspot coverage. Microcells do a lot more. Aircraft that are equipped with in-flight GSM stations are using Microcells. These are more likely what would need to be installed here.

I beg to differ, Microcells provide high capacity in small areas, most airport 3G coverage in Australia is provided by microcells already for that reason (as opposed to metrocells). As I mentioned earlier, the purpose of femtocells was initially to provide backspot coverage, but thats back in 2009, these days they are designed to do a lot more than that and do, specifically presence aware services.

BTW the reason why you get coverage on the airport link portion of the Sydney rail network is the installation of Microcells and leaky coax when it was built ten years ago, hence my example of a scenario of going from a Microcell to a femtocell, which is what exactly would happen in a hand-off view at Sydney Airport QP after catching the train.

 

[drewbles]

I beg to differ, Microcells provide high capacity in small areas, most airport 3G coverage in Australia is provided by microcells already for that reason (as opposed to metrocells). As I mentioned earlier, the purpose of femtocells was initially to provide backspot coverage, but thats back in 2009, these days they are designed to do a lot more than that and do, specifically presence aware services.

BTW the reason why you get coverage on the airport link portion of the Sydney rail network is the installation of Microcells and leaky coax when it was built ten years ago, hence my example of a scenario of going from a Microcell to a femtocell, which is what exactly would happen in a hand-off view at Sydney Airport QP after catching the train.

My understanding of Femtocells is they typically only have a 10m or so range.

I am aware of what Femtocells can do now though as you say, in relation to presence aware type stuff. There's some very interesting developments with them, but assumed that since they are such short-range devices, they'd simply be too limited in that range to be of any use as a broad spectrum type access point for actual calling.

 

[markis10]

My understanding of Femtocells is they typically only have a 10m or so range.

I am aware of what Femtocells can do now though as you say, in relation to presence aware type stuff. There's some very interesting developments with them, but assumed that since they are such short-range devices, they'd simply be too limited in that range to be of any use as a broad spectrum type access point for actual calling.

Until last week I would have probably agreed very much with that, but then I spent a week with the ALU team and one meeting there was much discussion about the extra functionality they can provide to small business users! Brain still hurts

 

[drewbles]

Until last week I would have probably agreed very much with that, but then I spent a week with the ALU team and one meeting there was much discussion about the extra functionality they can provide to small business users! Brain still hurts

But has the range increased beyond the 10m? I'm assuming it has.

 

[markis10]

But has the range increased beyond the 10m? I'm assuming it has.

No, but you can mesh them and given the price point is not far off a good WIFI AP, not really an issue. WiFi APs can get long range but if you look at closely at the QP environment, they are also getting around a 10m radius, CNS has 4 !

 

[drewbles]

No, but you can mesh them and given the price point is not far off a good WIFI AP, not really an issue. WiFi APs can get long range but if you look at closely at the QP environment, they are also getting around a 10m radius, CNS has 4 !

I never understood why they felt compelled to put so many AP's in. I'm no wifi expert unfortunately, but i'm assuming they'll too be meshed. I suppose there's some intelligence in them that says 'if i'm too loaded, re-direct the connection to another SSID' or similar. But i'm getting way o/t here

 

[markis10]

I never understood why they felt compelled to put so many AP's in. I'm no wifi expert unfortunately, but i'm assuming they'll too be meshed. I suppose there's some intelligence in them that says 'if i'm too loaded, re-direct the connection to another SSID' or similar. But i'm getting way o/t here

Most WIFI APs struggle to handle 100 clients, bring iPads into the mix:

This report is pretty good for a real world review versus lab reviews with small clients.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985-13.html