A quick poll - Nude-o-matics, for or against?

Nude-o-matic, for or against?


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How about devoting your energy to putting yourself on the line and specifying what you (as a clear expert) thinks what should be done?
Many years ago, as a computer programmer, I happened upon Bruce Schneier's Applied Cryptography. It's a fairly dense handbook about codes and cyphers, encryption and decryption. The sort of thing only a true nerd would write. Or read. I devoured it, bought my own copy, bought his other books, subscribed to his website.

I'm no expert in security, but Bruce is, and he knows where the bodies are buried. He has a lot of fun exposing software programs that promise computer security but fall short. He shows how expensive gizmos can be bypassed. He dives into the politics of security and why some things - such as air transport - attract a lot of attention but others, such as cinemas and public transport don't.

Anyone ever gone through a detector of any sort to get on the Tube? Or visit Hoyts? And yet these are places where hundreds of vulnerable people congregate. Hell, the security lines at any big airport will have a big jet's worth of people just standing around with unscreened bags, undies that haven't been scanned, laptops that are hiding in briefcases, liquids in containers greater than 100ml...

Anyway, Schneier knows his stuff. He can be checked and he comes out solid. If anything, he is a bit more alarmist than the general security industry, which is saying something. I remember reading a book he wrote about identity theft in 2000, and that was long before it became a common phrase.

He is scathing about these full-body scanners, has been for years and has repeatedly pointed out their shortcomings and the politics behind them. You are right to be skeptical of the average journalist seeking a good headline or an "armchair expert" pontificating. But if you want to criticise Schneier with one-liners and cheap talk, it tells me that you haven't done any research.

What do I think should be done? I don't know. But I do know what shouldn't be done, and that is to fight the next war as if it were the previous one. There's no magic bullet that guarantees security and the target is always moving. What works best is intelligence, unpredictability and good risk assessment, and none of that applies to the TSA. Spending billions of dollars on machines that sometimes detect suspicious bulges in underwear is a poor spending choice.

If I were spending security money, I'd be increasing surveillance outside the security zone. Look at what people are doing when they get out of taxis, see who arrives together, see what they do before entering the security line, see what they do afterwards. Just pick up on the patterns and the exceptions.

As a night cabbie, I soon got to know what to look for. Everyone is different, but they follow similar patterns. The businessmen going to and from the airport, the late night drunks, the old ladies with their shopping and doctor's appointments. But every now and then there's someone who acts a bit out of the ordinary, and they are the ones to keep an eye on, because they can mean big trouble. The most dangerous are the ones who know the system, know where the security cameras are located, what the driver's options are, when he's likely to have a bag full of money, when he's vulnerable.

They study the system, they work out how to beat it, they practise their roles. They know the rules, but they don't play by them. They, like hijackers, are the Liars and Outliers.
 
There are some on here who believe that this system is useless against a serious terrorist attack. But yet the Yanks have managed to prevent a repeat of the 9/11 massacre.
Not with this system, they haven't. 9/11 was 2001 and these nudeoscopes are only now becoming widespread, a decade later.

What the Yanks HAVE done is lose 6 500 dead in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not mentioning the wounded and the cost of it all. Or the Allied casualties and the civilian and the enormous loss of trust. Much as I love the USA, I'm not going to go blindly following Americans down some robot path where backroom boys use mindless technology to make life miserable for everyone.

If serious hijackers can beat this system by simply shoving sticks of dynamite up their backsides, then that's what they'll do, regardless of what the propellorheads are telling the politicians.
 
Do you suggest to just leave the ¨gate¨ open??
If the bad boys are sneaking through the hole in the fence, then why not? Any system that is expensive and inconvenient and useless is merely a play act for the gullible. Ever hear of the Maginot Line?
 
If an airport isn't open 24hrs, who is the person that scans the security employees as they clock on in the morning?
 
As aircrew, the only thing I care about is what's best for my body (seeing as we'd have to go through it a hell of a lot). If it's going to be harmful in the long run, then it's a firm no.

I don't care about the privacy issues... unless I hear laughing from the screening room. :p
 
As aircrew, the only thing I care about is what's best for my body (seeing as we'd have to go through it a hell of a lot). If it's going to be harmful in the long run, then it's a firm no.
Probably getting off the track here a bit, but what about heightened exposure to radiation by long periods of flying at altitude? I would think that you'd get a higher dose from a few hours up in the atmosphere than from the scanners on the ground.
 
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not to mention the EMF propogated at ground level, as an aside Glenelg beach SA has radiation levels 3 times the safe exosure ove time limit yet they lay on the sand all day. at least the will die pretty
 
Good point. Another reason why I would want to limit exposure to any other high levels of radiation.

I must admit, though, that I haven't looked into the risks of such machines, hence why I am 'unsure' as to whether I am happy to go through such machines on a daily basis.

Put it this way, history has shown us that many "everyday items", previously deemed safe, can be found out to be not so safe many years later. What's to say that these machines aren't the same.
 
Probably getting off the track here a bit, but what about heightened exposure to radiation by long periods of flying at altitude? I would think that you'd get a higher dose from a few hours up in the atmosphere than from the scanners on the ground.

Yes, much higher radiation exposure from flying. In fact, radioactive potassium in other people is one of the highest natural sources of radiation.


not to mention the EMF propogated at ground level, as an aside Glenelg beach SA has radiation levels 3 times the safe exosure ove time limit yet they lay on the sand all day. at least the will die pretty

What type of radiation? Basically this makes very little sense.

Put it this way, history has shown us that many "everyday items", previously deemed safe, can be found out to be not so safe many years later. What's to say that these machines aren't the same.

Not really, sure before 1940 the effects of radiation weren't well know. In 1896 the effects of x-rays weren't well known. So doctors had there hands drop off, and radium dial painters experienced all sorts of horrible stuff and radiation spoliation was stopped.

But these days the effects of radiation are well known. The radiation dose from these machines is well within the range of dose we all experience everyday of ours life. Any Australian going through these scanners 100 times a year is still going to be exposed to radiation levels much lower than the background radiation in Denver. Last time I checked no one decided living in Denver was suddenly unsafe.
 
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I am against this mainly for the health reasons and less so for the privacy concerns but I hope more women in the USA rigorously protest against the TSA this like this lady.

article-1334937-0C50A20C000005DC-566_468x497.jpg
 
or this??? :shock::shock::shock:

Getting Naked At The Airport To Protest The TSA Is So 2010 - Forbes



Oregonian-TSA-naked-protest.jpg
 
What type of radiation? Basically this makes very little sense.
.

The background radiation on the beach is quite high, my angle was at what we dont know what we're exposed to, as akin to what we do.
 
The background radiation on the beach is quite high, my angle was at what we dont know what we're exposed to, as akin to what we do.

So you're talking about ionising radiation not EMF? It's a fair point but just saying it's "3 times the safe exposure limit" confuses the point. There is no safe exposure limit that is readily applicable to Glenelg beach sand. There are dose limits but it is not unsafe for people to be exposed above those limits. I also doubt anyone laying on glenelg beach will be exposed to radiation that exceeds the lowest of those dose limits.


Sent from the Throne
 
I don't think this goes far enough. If i had my way this is how we'd be doing it:
1) All passengers must arrive at airport completely naked
2) Cavity searches will occur whilst checking in - leaving no stone unturned
3) All content of luggage must be removed and passed through scanning machines
4) Clothing must have pockets upturned (inside out), zippers undone and buttoning open
5) All sealable objets must be opened, with internals exposed, including removal of all screws, rivets and joints
6) Nail clippers, tweezers and knitting needles are code 1 security alert items, you will be shot, tied, and possible qurtered if found in possession

I know the above is a bit drastic, but its the price we must pay for our freedom. Of course, if you've got the money to pay for priority screening, you can just walk on in, cause you know <chuckles> terrorists NEVER fly first class...
 
So you're talking about ionising radiation not EMF? It's a fair point but just saying it's "3 times the safe exposure limit" confuses the point. There is no safe exposure limit that is readily applicable to Glenelg beach sand. There are dose limits but it is not unsafe for people to be exposed above those limits. I also doubt anyone laying on glenelg beach will be exposed to radiation that exceeds the lowest of those dose limits.


Sent from the Throne

I see now how my post may have been confusing. Firstly I stated not to mention the EMF propogated at ground level, of which I was referring to UHF frequencies from sources such as Mobile phones towers etc. Then I went on to make the statement regarding Glenelg beach. I wish I had more time available to expand on my posts however work prevails.

PS I am no expert in this field
 
in fact the EPA SA has this information which more eloquently puts it than I ;)

[h=2]Natural radiation[/h]Natural background radiation comes from two primary sources: cosmic radiation and terrestrial sources such as soil, rocks, water, air, and vegetation.
The worldwide average background dose for a human being is about 2.4 milli-sievert (mSv) per year. This exposure is mostly from cosmic radiation and natural radionuclides in the environment.
This is far greater than human-caused background radiation exposure. In 2000, this amounted to an average of about 0.005 mSv per year from historical nuclear weapons testing, nuclear power accidents and the nuclear industry operation combined. The background radiation dose is also greater than the average exposure from medical tests, which ranges from 0.04 to 1 mSv per year.
The level of natural background radiation varies depending on location, and in some areas the level is significantly higher than average. Such areas include Ramsar in Iran, Guarapari in Brazil, Kerala in India, parts of the Flinders Ranges in South Australia and Yangjiang in China. In Ramsar, a peak yearly dose of 260 mSv has been reported.
 
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