IBERIA flouting EU261. Any recommendations or success?

[Berlin]

This is nothing out of the ordinary and one of the main reasons I call the entire EU scheme a scam (we could get political here and highlight that this is in the nature of most EU legislation but let’s stay on topic). Plenty such stories about Lufthansa and Air France/KLM too, not up even mention the likes of Ryanair or Wizz.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Iberia's response to my claim was pretty much identical to the one in post #1 of this thread, and they just stonewall you until you go away. It's disappointing to see that nothing has changed in all this time.

This is nothing out of the ordinary and one of the main reasons I call the entire EU scheme a scam (we could get political here and highlight that this is in the nature of most EU legislation but let’s stay on topic). Plenty such stories about Lufthansa and Air France/KLM too, not up even mention the likes of Ryanair or Wizz.

An airline shirking their obligations under the law is nothing new. Corporations are not people, they do not have morals or ethics, they will do whatever they can get away with to turn a buck. And by the way this doesn't necessarily mean that it is a flaw of the law either. After all, they want to minimize their liability when they screw up and so long as there is no penalty in them stringing you along, why not drag out the process? Now if there were timelines and strict penalties for such tactics, things would change.

One recent example that comes to mind is when American lost my luggage for nearly a week. I went out and bought some stuff (including antihistamine that was in my checked bag) and claimed it back to them. They responded agreeing to everything except the antihistamine as they claim that their contract of carriage disclaims liability for those things. But here's the deal, the law (Article 26 of the Montreal Convention which governed this international trip) explicitly states that the airline is not allowed to disclaim any liability covered under the convention. So technically if I wanted to, I could demand they reimburse me the ~$30 USD I spent on the antihistamine (including suing them in small claims court). Ultimately, I decided against it and will simply claim it back from my credit card company.

As for @Matt Graham, it may be worthwhile engaging one of the no win no fee outfits to pursue the matter. You will lose a percentage of your compensation, but at least Iberia will be force to do what it is supposed to.

Another example (related to passenger rights) was when Air Canada incorrectly claimed that my delay of 14 hours due crew scheduling was within their control but required for safety and thus ineligible for the $1,000 compensation I was owed under Canada's Air Passenger Protection Regulation. Ultimately, I complained the Canadian Transportation Agency and 2 years later they reviewed the case, the airline was forced to provide evidence, and I spent about 3 hours writing a rebuttal to their "defence" using the evidence they provided against them. Ultimately the agency ruled in my favour and ordered Air Canada to pay me $1,000 CAD (which they did 24 hours prior to the deadline they had to pay up). Was it worth me going through all those hoops to get what was owed? Perhaps. But I think there is some value in agencies like AirHelp, especially when the process can be slow and full of paperwork. My understanding (at least in Europe) is the process of "appealing" such decisions depends on the EU state and not all of them are as expedient as even Canada's slow complaint process. 70% of something is still better than 100% of nothing!

-RooFlyer88

 

[sydunipete]

Iberia isn’t alone in stonewalling.

I had a claim against Turkish Airlines. Because of an overnight delay at Istanbul I took a hotel (they refused to provide a room - I’m TK Elite - Gold and flying business class).

The next day I requested compensation (I just wanted the room paid for, much less than EU261 for 2 passengers ARN-IST-TPE).

They initially agreed and asked for a receipt. I provided it then they reneged on their offer.

Travel insurance came good for the expense so I decided to enlist one of those third party claim agencies and so far (6 months later) all I get is “we’re working on it” emails. So I can’t recommend skycop.

 

[ozflier]

I may be the exception but i made a successful claim against Finnair 4 years ago
HEL-ORD-SFO in Business.
Second flight on American.
First flight left Helsinki 3 hours late and landed in ORD and I missed the connection onwards.
I was offered an onward flight in economy class - I rejected it and was put up in an airport hotel for the night and flew in business early morning.
EU261 claim was handled promptly .
Sorry fellow posters have had such hassles.

 

[Scarlett]

I’ve lodged my claim against Iberia with ‘Flightright’, one of the no win, no fee mobs that pursue the airlines. It’s based in Germany.

All the firms/agencies doing this seem to have standard rates of 30-35% of the compensation if they convince the airline to pay up and then another 10-15% if they have to take court action against the airline to enforce it.

Step one was to provide them all the info about the flight and a copy of my confirmed ticket.

Step two appears to be they are now repeating exactly what I’ve already done chasing IB. This can take up to three months.

Step three then appears to be they’ll take enforcement (legal) action against IB under EU261 legislation and that can take many months to over a year.

Even if I only get €300 of the possible 600 I should be eligible for under the legislation it’s better than more stonewalling by IB. Plus, I don’t become part of the statistics of not bothering to pursue the matter, that IB seem to rely on.

 

[beardoc]

Why not just put it in the hands of a EU261 advocacy services and let them deal with it? Yes, they will take a cut, but they also know how to deal with it, and won't be put off the letters they're sending, and you'll still end up with a lot more than if you haven't.

 

[bpc]

I filed an EU261 claim with Qatar last year, they paid up promptly without any runaround.

My flight was from the EU, Toulouse in France, the plane broke down at the airport and they put me up for what ended up as two nights at the airport Radisson. Full correspondence below.

I emailed them on Monday 13th May:

I write regarding my recent trip with you.​

​

Booking reference: xx_​

Original Ticket number: ‭xx_‬​

Passenger name: xx_​

Privilege Club: Membership Number ‭xx_​

email: xx_​

phone: xx_​

​

My flight from Toulouse to Doha QR 0048 on Thursday 25th April 2024 was cancelled due to a technical problem with the plane.​

​

I was, eventually, rerouted, and arrived in Doha two days late on QR70 from Frankfurt on Saturday 27th April 2024. Ticket number xx_.​

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Accordingly I write to request 600 euros compensation per Air passenger rights - Your Europe​

​

This may be made to my original method of payment.​

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Thank you,​

​

bpc​

and received an immediate automated reply with a case number:

Dear Customer,​

​

Thank you for contacting Qatar Airways Customer Care. ​

This automated response confirms receipt of your email. One of our team members will review your comments and will revert to you in due course. ​

However, your message may require further input and review from other departments, and this may delay our response. Please be assured that we will respond to your message.​

You are encouraged to provide us with your booking reference, e-ticket number or any other information related to your concerns for quicker handling, if this information has not been provided earlier. ​

In the meantime, you may please take note of your case reference: CAS-xx_-xx_ assigned to your correspondence.​

​

Kind regards,​

Qatar Airways Customer Care Team​

Then a follow-up reply from a real person on Wednesday 15th May:

Dear Mr. xx_,​

​

Thank you for your email.​

​

We refer to the flight QR048/25 April 2024, which was scheduled to operate from Toulouse to Doha.​

​

We are sorry for the inconvenience that you may have encountered and can fully appreciate how unsettling this situation must have been for you. ​

​

In light of this, we would like to offer you EUR 600/- as compensation.​

​

PNR: xx_​

Last Name: xx_​

https://www.qatarairways.com/cashcompensation/WebForms/Verify.aspx?xx_

​

We would also like to request you to fill out the attached Release and Discharge form and submit it online along with your passport copy to complete the payment process. ​

​

Please allow us to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for any inconvenience which may have been caused on this occasion and we remain hopeful that you will consider using our services again in the future.​

​

Thank you for taking the time to write to us and giving the opportunity to respond.​

​

Regards​

xx_​

I filled the form out, sent it back, received a reply from the same CSR eight minutes later:

Dear xx_,​

​

Thank you for your email.​

​

We have proceeded to arrange for a bank transfer to the sum of EUR 600/-, which will be transferred to the nominated bank account.​

​

Please note that the amount will be transferred to your account within a few days. However, it may take up to 14-28 days for the amount to appear on your account statement.​

​

In the unlikely event that your payment is not credited after 28 days, please feel free to contact us by replying to this email.​

​

Thanks & Regards,​

​

xx_​

Customer Care​

The money hit my account on 23rd May, 600€ => $980.

 

[MatthewRob]

I had a similar with Iberia in February after a delayed flight LHR-MAD caused me to miss my flight MAD-EZE. I was in Business Class.

They provided hotel at Madrid airport for the night. I wrote to them asking them to pay some expenses (food and taxi) and the EU compensation. They paid expenses promptly but refused compensation. After 5 emails to Iberia I was getting nowhere with them blaming "an exceptional situation due to a delayed incoming flight so no compensation was payable" but nothing more.

Because it was ex UK I could get the UK CAA involved. I wrote a simple claim using the CAA website. Within about a week Iberia magically said they had heard from the CAA and were now paying. No further explanation for the turnaround. I felt like asking why they thought continually denying a clear compensation case was good customer service. However I said OK and gave my bank account details. They only offered the EU261 compensation which is slightly less money (€600 vs £520) due to FX loss, than UK261 despite it being a CAA UK261 claim!

I also filed a claim online with AESA, but it was more complicated and onerous to complete. I couldn't cancel the claim with AESA after the CAA win. This was over 10 weeks ago and still heard nothing from AESA!

I also asked the CAA to fine Iberia. It was a clear claim that they were stonewalling. Airlines are more aware than customers when they need to pay and when they do not. They are blatantly ignoring customers and trying to avoid claims and I believe they should be fined for doing so.

I wondered why no legal firm has helped expose these airlines that continually deny claims. Then realise that the law firms are making a fortune on claim chasing. It would be interesting to know which airlines are getting the most complaints...Iberia has to be high.

EU261 is passenger friendly. But the claim process needs simplifying and reforming as airlines are not conforming.

 

[bpc]

This is nothing out of the ordinary and one of the main reasons I call the entire EU scheme a scam (we could get political here and highlight that this is in the nature of most EU legislation but let’s stay on topic). Plenty such stories about Lufthansa and Air France/KLM too, not up even mention the likes of Ryanair or Wizz.

how is it a scam?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’ve lodged my claim against Iberia with ‘Flightright’, one of the no win, no fee mobs that pursue the airlines. It’s based in Germany.

All the firms/agencies doing this seem to have standard rates of 30-35% of the compensation if they convince the airline to pay up and then another 10-15% if they have to take court action against the airline to enforce it.

Step one was to provide them all the info about the flight and a copy of my confirmed ticket.

Step two appears to be they are now repeating exactly what I’ve already done chasing IB. This can take up to three months.

Step three then appears to be they’ll take enforcement (legal) action against IB under EU261 legislation and that can take many months to over a year.

Even if I only get €300 of the possible 600 I should be eligible for under the legislation it’s better than more stonewalling by IB. Plus, I don’t become part of the statistics of not bothering to pursue the matter, that IB seem to rely on.

Recommmend against going to court.

We had an unfortunate account here on AFF where one of the claims companies went after Finnnair in court. The claims company went broke, meaning Finnair went after the passenger for costs (many thousands of euros).

 

[Scarlett]

Recommmend against going to court.

We had an unfortunate account here on AFF where one of the claims companies went after Finnnair in court. The claims company went broke, meaning Finnair went after the passenger for costs (many thousands of euros).

It won’t be me going to court and I’m happy to let the process play out if that is necessary.
That Finnair one example from the likely many thousands of cases where the airline coughs up as soon as is legal case is mentioned is very much the outlier.

 

[lunne]

Having filed a few EC261 claims, Iberia is one of two airlines (the other being Swiss) that refuse to adhere to the Regulation.

It might take a follow-up email or two, but as a data point, Lufthansa, SAS and United have all paid compensation for my claims.

 

[Julesmac]

Having filed a few EC261 claims, Iberia is one of two airlines (the other being Swiss) that refuse to adhere to the Regulation.

It might take a follow-up email or two, but as a data point, Lufthansa, SAS and United have all paid compensation for my claims.

"No, Nope, Nada....said every insurance company ever.They keep stonewalling - like the examples above - until you give up and go away!

 

[outthere1000]

Looks like IB is as bad now as it was in 1979. I missed a morning flight from Madrid to Lisbon because my train from Seville ws four hours late. Iberia made me wait eight hours until the next flight, despite my having what was then a full-price, fully flex RTW ticket. I waited by the gate's exit door near the front of the scrum - in those days (still?) there was no reserved seating and one simply ran across the apron as soon as the door opened (and this is a legacy airline!). The door opened, and as I started off some IB employee grabbed me and said I had to wait to the end as I was standby (news to me) - somehow he seemed to have been waiting for me, or watching me - and so I finished up in a middle seat at the back of the plane among the smokers. Dinner was a dry sandwich thrown at me. And for the final insult, despite that full-price, fully flex ticket, IB had cancelled the entire rest of my ticket, amounting to at least nine sectors on mutliple airlines - which I discovered only by accident when I went to TAP to confirm my onward flight to LHR.
Not long after that, I was chatting with a British Caledonian (remember them?) flight attendant and we got to discussing what would be the world's worst airline. He said immediately, "Iberia!" Looks like not much has changed.

 

[Berlin]

how is it a scam?

It’s almost always one hell of a fight to really get the money and the amount is rather laughable, especially if airlines use it as excuse to pander off Business class travellers (which is very often done in my experience).

In the end, it’s just the usual EU legislation which doesn’t do much in practice besides producing lots of paperwork and some nice shoulder patting for overpaid EU politicians.

 

[bpc]

the amount is rather laughable, especially if airlines use it as excuse to pander off Business class travellers (which is very often done in my experience).

In the end, it’s just the usual EU legislation which doesn’t do much in practice besides producing lots of paperwork and some nice shoulder patting for overpaid EU politicians.

For me, the €600 I received in the example above was more than half the cost of my return ticket from Sydney.

Most people don't fly business class. €250 short haul, €450 medium haul & €600 long haul is usually more than the cost of the flight.

As @Matt Graham said in the article which reopened this discussion:

If it doesn’t improve consumer protections, why would Qantas be so determined to block a similar scheme from being introduced in Australia?​

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Despite the difficulty in getting some airlines to actually pay out, I’m still a big fan of EU261. Why? Because it does actually change the way European airlines run their operations in a material way – to the benefit of passengers.​

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Faced with the threat of having to pay compensation to customers, European airlines put more effort into selling realistic schedules, minimising overbooking and mitigating delays. You can tell because European airlines often go to great lengths to keep delays under the threshold for paying out compensation.​

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I think it says a lot about the merits of EU261 that, after hundreds of European flights, this is the first time I’ve ever actually tried to claim compensation.​

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Which is why the AFF submission to the Aviation Green Paper in 2023 recommended Australia adopt such a scheme.