First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month [Oct '12]

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First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month

Just for clarity are you saying the bins are not part of the refresh? Not sure if I inferred that the int'l 767s were not part of the refresh.

I do find it bizarre that they are refreshing the bins on the 738s which were fine (you can fit a standard size carryon end on in them) and not the bins on the 763 which are woeful.

The comment was at another member. As stated, only one 737 has had the trial bins installed, there has been no word if this will be extended to the other 738's or not.
 
I do find it bizarre that they are refreshing the bins on the 738s which were fine (you can fit a standard size carryon end on in them) and not the bins on the 763 which are woeful.

Heath Technica probably find it bizarre that an airline is keeping its 767s for so long.
 
Heath Technica probably find it bizarre that an airline is keeping its 767s for so long.

Others are keeping them, so not bizarre at all. What is bizarre is the beleif that because it is old it needs replacing. Modernising yes, but replacing not always the case.
 
Others are keeping them, so not bizarre at all. What is bizarre is the beleif that because it is old it needs replacing. Modernising yes, but replacing not always the case.

LAN have 763s that are a year old!
 
Others are keeping them, so not bizarre at all. What is bizarre is the beleif that because it is old it needs replacing. Modernising yes, but replacing not always the case.

Its not a belief but a known fact that reliability and TCO increases with fleet age, and beyond 20 years becomes untenable, Qantas is outside of the mean band for 767 fleet operations age. To quote the ATSB:

Around the world, there have been a number of aircraft accidents relating to age. One of the most significant of these accidents was Aloha flight 243. On 28 April 1988, the Boeing 737-200 aircraft sustained an explosive decompression. At the time of the accident, the aircraft had been in service for 19 years and had accumulated a high number of flight cycles1. The combination of fatigue and corrosion affected the fuselage skin and led to the failure of the structure.
In addition to the Aloha flight 243 accident, there have been a number of other accidents and incidents related to ageing aircraft. One such age related accident occurred on 12 April 1989, when the rudder of a British Airways Concorde aircraft, registration G-BOAF, fractured and separated in flight. The rudder separation occurred due to ageing of the composite structure. Another accident attributed to ageing was TWA flight 800, on 17 July 1996, where deterioration of the wiring in the wing centre section led to the fuel tank explosion. More recently in 2000 and 2001, Ansett Australia grounded their Boeing 767 aircraft fleet due to structural cracks found in the engine pylons and empennage. These accidents and incidents have highlighted the safety implications resulting from aircraft ageing and have demonstrated the importance of effective continuing airworthiness programmes.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29959/b20050205.pdf

I would like to see an update on the Australian Fleet age!

Further reading comes up with the following recommended strategies, lease rather than buy, dont do long term leases (+12 years) and older aircraft (15years +) should be replaced:

age.jpg


http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFcQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agifors.org%2Fdocument.go%3FdocumentId%3D2137%26action%3Ddownload&ei=bMsJUbG7G9CXiAeI1oCoDA&usg=AFQjCNEDR3hg0SYF7NRuBy9VAUVwF_Fd7Q&bvm=bv.41642243,d.aGc&cad=rja


 
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Its not a belief but a known fact that reliability and TCO increases with fleet age, and beyond 20 years becomes untenable, Qantas is outside of the mean band for 767 fleet operations age. To quote the ATSB:


https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29959/b20050205.pdf

I would like to see an update on the Australian Fleet age!

Further reading comes up with the following recommended strategies, lease rather than buy, dont do long term leases (+12 years) and older aircraft (15years +) should be replaced:

View attachment 13150

It is a tad more complex than that and don't disagree that an older aircraft have extra costs. But by the same token new aicraft also have hidden costs, for lease the fact the money is dead and for owned aircraft depreciation for example. In any case the point remains that other airlines with similar aged 767's to Qantas are refurbishing. BA comes to mind. Having said that I do think Qantas has got their money out of the 767's and their time has come.
 
It is a tad more complex than that and don't disagree that an older aircraft have extra costs. But by the same token new aicraft also have hidden costs, for lease the fact the money is dead and for owned aircraft depreciation for example. In any case the point remains that other airlines with similar aged 767's to Qantas are refurbishing. BA comes to mind. Having said that I do think Qantas has got their money out of the 767's and their time has come.

You obviously did not read the linked report which covers the leasing versus ownership debate, and as per my post concludes leasing is the way to go, these factors have been considered in the recommendations made which suggest over 15 years its time for cash for clunkers, by researchers with considerable expertise.

As for other airlines also keeping the planes, just because someone else is doing it does not make it right, Heath Tecnica would have developed a refit kit if they saw a market where many were refurbishing their 767s, fact is they are not.
 
You obviously did not read the linked report which covers the leasing versus ownership debate, and as per my post concludes leasing is the way to go, these factors have been considered in the recommendations made which suggest over 15 years its time for cash for clunkers, by researchers with considerable expertise.

As for other airlines also keeping the planes, just because someone else is doing it does not make it right, Heath Tecnica would have developed a refit kit if they saw a market where many were refurbishing their 767s, fact is they are not.

You mean like this one:

http://www.heath.com/Capabilities/Product-Showcase/B767-IUS/NuLook-PBS.aspx


So demand must be there.
 
I stand corrected on that, begs the question why QF did not consider that as part of their stop gap measures?

Cost. Their stop gap is minor cost life extension of the 767, refitting bins you would want more than 2-3 years to recover the cost.
 
Cost. Their stop gap is minor cost life extension of the 767, refitting bins you would want more than 2-3 years to recover the cost.

Cost over customer experience - this is the AJ experience. What do you expect from a CEO who came from revenue management and fleet planning at Aer Lingus and of course a wonderful 5yrs at JQ.

Heath Techna offers this? Why didn't QF just say 'we'll take that interior'!

CaptureBoeing.JPG
 
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Cost over customer experience - this is the AJ experience. What do you expect from a CEO who came from revenue management and fleet planning at Aer Lingus and of course a wonderful 5yrs at JQ.

It is not all about the CEO - he'd probably still need board approval for the capital costs of such a change, and who knows how much harder it would have been if you added this to what they were already doing....
 
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Cost over customer experience - this is the AJ experience. What do you expect from a CEO who came from revenue management and fleet planning at Aer Lingus and of course a wonderful 5yrs at JQ.

Heath Techna offers this? Why didn't QF just say 'we'll take that interior'!

View attachment 13155

I think that comment is a tad unfair. Any business airline or not needs to do a cost benifit analyisis, clearly Qantas though for a 2-3 year life extension which is how long the 767's will (apparently) remain is sufficent. To be honest I reckon they are on the money with this one. Now if they were going to keep them another 5-10 years then sure it should have been done.
 
Qantas are never scared to spend a dollar when it is justified and likely to provide an adequate return. Clearly the refresh went as far as to provide an adequate return for the investment and any more was money wasted...
 
Cost over customer experience - this is the AJ experience. What do you expect from a CEO who came from revenue management and fleet planning at Aer Lingus and of course a wonderful 5yrs at JQ.

Heath Techna offers this? Why didn't QF just say 'we'll take that interior'!

View attachment 13155

There don't appear to be that many seats in that configuration.

The overhead bin space is the one thing that puts me off the 763.
 
Flew a refurbished 763 for the first time SYD-MEL. I liked it, the iPads and the leather J seats looked nice and comfy. I'm just not sure those tabs on the top of the headrest to hold it in are the most user-friendly; I shoved it in eventually but had to experiment a bit.
 
First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month

Cost over customer experience - this is the AJ experience. What do you expect from a CEO who came from revenue management and fleet planning at Aer Lingus and of course a wonderful 5yrs at JQ.

Heath Techna offers this? Why didn't QF just say 'we'll take that interior'!

View attachment 13155

Aren't they a business, not a charity.

I am sure the bins have been costed and decided that the cost did not make sense.
 
Aren't they a business, not a charity.I am sure the bins have been costed and decided that the cost did not make sense.
I understand they are a business - I am not wanting them to throw money away and go broke, however I am sick to death of trying to fit my QF-approved cabin bag into those tiny overhead bins. I don't care about cost In this instance I care about QF installing regular size overhead bins that every other carrier - including Tiger - seems to have managed to do.You will get my full unbiased run down after my QF3 journey this weekend (hopefully typing it up while sipping something alcoholic overlooking Waikiki from my lanai :-)
 
I understand they are a business - I am not wanting them to throw money away and go broke, however I am sick to death of trying to fit my QF-approved cabin bag into those tiny overhead bins. I don't care about cost In this instance I care about QF installing regular size overhead bins that every other carrier - including Tiger - seems to have managed to do.You will get my full unbiased run down after my QF3 journey this weekend (hopefully typing it up while sipping something alcoholic overlooking Waikiki from my lanai :-)

You would care about cost when Qantas increased the prices of tickets to cover the cost. As for other carriers not many operators of 767's have installed new bins, just a handful. Also whats with the comparision to Tiger, they operate new aircraft with factory fitted bins, just like Qantas on their (many) new aircraft. Personally I have never had an issue with the size of the bins on a 767. Sure your not confusing a 767 with a dash-8 :):)
 
ajw373 I have mentioned a few times about issues with the 763 bins. In simple terms I can put my rollaboard end on into a 737 overhead bin and occupy about 50% of the space above my row. On a 763 the same rollaboard has to go in side taking up 100% of the space above my row.
 
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