More 777s heading down under?

[markis10]

I wonder if DJ are the unidentifed customer of three 777s ordered this week, that's my speculation, given the overseas route review is getting close:

413		4	4	-9	412
		4		3
				2
45
				10
17
230
122
			3
			3
1
415		4	6	15	440
-2			-2	-24	-28
413		4	4	-9	412
	737	747	767	777	787	Total

[TH="align: left"]Orders through March 31, 2012[/TH]
[TH="width: 52"]737[/TH]
[TH="width: 52"]747[/TH]
[TH="width: 52"]767[/TH]
[TH="width: 52"]777[/TH]
[TH="width: 36"]787[/TH]
[TH="width: 90"]Total[/TH]

[TH="align: right"]2012 Net Orders[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Air Astana[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]7[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Air New Zealand[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]2[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]China Eastern Airlines[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]45[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Japan Airlines[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]10[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Jet Airways[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]17[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Lion Air[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]230[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Norwegian[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]122[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]TAAG (Angola Airlines)[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]3[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Unidentified Customer(s)[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]3[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE, align: left"]Virgin Australia[/TH]

[TH="class: bgltgray, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]1[/TH]

[TH="align: right"]2012 Gross Orders[/TH]

[TH="align: right"]Changes[/TH]

[TH="align: right"]2012 Net Orders[/TH]

[TH="colspan: 7"][/TH]

 

[juddles]

Bit of a long bow but you could be right!

 

[juddles]

Am thinking probably it is Pakistan International though.

 

[markis10]

Three would give them a new route and provide a covering aircraft as a spare.

 

[gwilli1]

I can only hope that this would be for VA International . They have a great product and it would be a shame that they remain servicing only 2 markets with there own metal. I still see SFO , YVR as great options for VA to jump into. Both markets have a monopoly carrier from Australia in UA(SFO) & AC(YVR) that could do with some competition & are very popular destinations for Aussies to travel . There is no reason why the couldn't service both destinations with a weekly split of 4 days SFO / 3 days YVR or vice versa. In addition SFO is home to VX , which is really starting to expand significantly, their network within the US . I am also of the opinion that a weekly direct flight to LAS would be a huge hit for VA that Aussies would jump onto..... Just my 2 cents worth .
markis10 - Is there any date for an announcement on the review that your aware of ?

 

[markis10]

The review is due to be competed this quarter.

 

[Carlous Moochous]

Isn't the DJ plan to build an extensive international network using partner airlines and trying to use as little capital in the process of expanding the international network? 3 X 777's seems like a bit of capital - do they have that kind of cash/funds lying around? Although it would be nice to see them expand their 'own metal' footprints don't see this fitting with their current international growth strategy.

 

[markis10]

Isn't the DJ plan to build an extensive international network using partner airlines and trying to use as little capital in the process of expanding the international network? 3 X 777's seems like a bit of capital - do they have that kind of cash/funds lying around? Although it would be nice to see them expand their 'own metal' footprints don't see this fitting with their current international growth strategy.

JB has already hinted that more 777s are under consideration, along with a stated desire to get into China, putting two and two together a moderate expansion of the international fleet to meet this need makes sense, and they are well positioned to handle the expansion with their maintance facility in Sydney underway.

 

[777]

JB has already hinted that more 777s are under consideration, along with a stated desire to get into China, putting two and two together a moderate expansion of the international fleet to meet this need makes sense, and they are well positioned to handle the expansion with their maintance facility in Sydney underway.

I think we've discussed this before, but i don't really see the point of more 777s if the target market is China or anywhere else in Asia that's within A330 range.

 

[markis10]

I think we've discussed this before, but i don't really see the point of more 777s if the target market is China or anywhere else in Asia that's within A330 range.

777s make sense from a fleet commonality perspective given the A330s are not international spec, and while the A330 has some merits for Asian destinations, so does the 777 which handles bigger loads better. The 777 order book has been filled in the last 6 months by a lot of Asian Pacific based customers with repeat orders, the economics of the A330 are not quite as attractive when they are sold at close to list nd not a discount to make up for A380 delays.

 

[lovestotravel]

What 777's would they order for Asian use ?
The 77W is too much of an aircraft for most routes...

SFO is a destination that needs attention......

 

[markis10]

What 777's would they order for Asian use ?
The 77W is too much of an aircraft for most routes...

SFO is a destination that needs attention......

There are plenty of 77w's flying to Australia from Asia, hardly too much, and of course AirNZ are on the order book.

 

[lovestotravel]

There are plenty of 77w's flying to Australia from Asia, hardly too much, and of course AirNZ are on the order book.

Of course they are flying from Asia, but don't pretty much all of them continue on to Europe/Middle East, that is where the range/capacity of the 77W is needed.

Most Asian airlines that fly just to/from Australia use the A330 as that provides much better economic for flights up to about 10 hours, over that you need the 77W

As for NZ, they already have 77W, but they only need them for the real long-haul flights and they rarely fly to Australia

 

[markis10]

Just since last Sunday Brisbane airspace has seen 50 odd 77W movements including EK, SQ, NZ (7 - hardly rare), JA and of course the odd VA flight. Saying that they go onward to other destinations in the context of Asian carriers is irrelevant, if the 777 was not great why not use an A330 in that context?

 

[notzac]

I have no idea about this stuff, but a 777 of any flavour surely wouldn't make sense unless you're exploiting the capabilities of the aircraft..? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I just can't see VA getting 777's to fly to Asia - unless they intended on upsetting EY and connecting pax on to another carrier for flights in to Europe. More flights to AUH/LAX and possibly another US destination? I can absolutely see that.

 

[lovestotravel]

What Asian carriers use 77W's to Australia ?

You have mentioned EK, SQ, NZ all of which use the 77W because it is then need to fly the onward flights to Europe/USA/Middle East

Pretty much all Asian carriers use A330s for the Aussie flights

 

[lovestotravel]

I have no idea about this stuff, but a 777 of any flavour surely wouldn't make sense unless you're exploiting the capabilities of the aircraft..? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I just can't see VA getting 777's to fly to Asia - unless they intended on upsetting EY and connecting pax on to another carrier for flights in to Europe. More flights to AUH/LAX and possibly another US destination? I can absolutely see that.

Exactly right the 772 is old and the 77W is just way too much aircraft for say Asian flightshttp://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/members/markis10.html

 

[rtyuiop]

I'd be happy to see them just increase frequencies out of BNE - can be just to LAX and AUH still! I assume the same applies for MEL...

 

[markis10]

What Asian carriers use 77W's to Australia ?

You have mentioned EK, SQ, NZ all of which use the 77W because it is then need to fly the onward flights to Europe/USA/Middle East

Pretty much all Asian carriers use A330s for the Aussie flights

Again your not making sense, why use an aircraft that's not suited to a route if you have the luxury of being able to put people on the right type at home base for onward flights, SQ and JAL are two who do operate 77W back to home base, it's a phallacy to suggest the 777s don't suit Asian operations because it's a sweeping generalization not based on facts or recognizing that you can have some pretty long flights ex Asia to Oz. You could also say that if airlines do want to utilize the 77Ws back to home then fly onward that suits DJ anyway, a quick dash up to PEK and back then onward to the US rather than having it sit on the ground during an off day makes sense as well, just like AUH to KUL rather than sitting on the ground at AUH!

 

[browski]

Wow, you can still buy 767s.