How safe are my QF FF points?

[ninin]

Hi All,

With all the ongoing discussion / speculation about the state of Qantas, declining international routes, separation of the international and domestic businesses and so on, I am worried about my precious and hard earned accumulated frequent flyer points.

Both partner and I are WP and both have over 1 Million points each. At the moment, we prefer not to utilise them unless it is for a J upgrade as we are striving for LTG (which we both should reach in the next year).

I'd like to think the points will be there when needed later, perhaps when funds are a bit tighter, but at the same time, worried about future changes to the programme or other unforeseen changes that will diminish or even cancel their benefit. What if they are taken over by another airline or the ff programme changes?

What are your thoughts about this - do you think we should use some of these points, do you think the points could be at risk? What would you do?

thanks for your thoughts

Regards ninin

 

[Daver6]

Just to let you know...I have had the same concerns.

One thing though...I suspect if your points become worthless...so will your LTG status.

 

[ashleyn]

Wow a million each ! I'm impressed. Nothing is certain in these times but I do believe the National carrier cannot be allowed to go down by any Government, the embarrassment on the world stage would be too great. I also believe that any serious devaluation of the FF program would do irreparable harm to the brand and would not be considered. I think we all have to be wary of creating a self fulfilling prophesy around QF, that is a real risk IMHO. I have 300k points saved for a big trip in 2014 so I'm watching like everyone else. Keep flying with the National carrier, talk them up and it will never happen (I hope).

 

[christopherc]

this is a very good question. i thought about that many times and that's why i use my points for upgrades all the time.
QANTAS is a very strong company even actually and i thought they will find a solution to save money.
The government is also very concerned about the future of the company.

I think your points will worth more in the future than now because the tickets will go up.

 

[Comoman]

I know quite a few people who lost all their Ansett points. People treat FF points as if they're currency but remember they don't have the same protection as a bank deposit has.

Spend them quickly but wisely is my motto.

 

[amaroo]

The best point is one that has come & gone!

FWIW I would spend your points on FASA or JASA and fly. I'm assuming that you may not know about ASA (any seats awards) - fly on points & earn points & status credits.

I've burnt around 6M points taking the family on holidays & have a view that one (or family) should bank no more than 1M - remember Ansett & don't discount that QF can de-value the points at any time.....in good times & bad.

 

[MatF]

I know quite a few people who lost all their Ansett points. People treat FF points as if they're currency but remember they don't have the same protection as a bank deposit has.

Spend them quickly but wisely is my motto.

Yep, I had a significant number of Ansett points that vanished in the blink of an eye. I chose not to use them for flights a number of times because I was specifically saving them up. It's been more than 10 years, but I'm still pissed off about it!

 

[Andyc]

I'm prepared to be corrected on this suggestion.
If you're particularly worried, one solution may be to burn your points on a refundable F or J ticket for a flight mid next year. Then if nothing happens to QF, you just refund the tickets. If something does, your Travel Insurance should step in to cover it... I think.

 

[Pleb Status]

I'm prepared to be corrected on this suggestion.
If you're particularly worried, one solution may be to burn your points on a refundable F or J ticket for a flight mid next year. Then if nothing happens to QF, you just refund the tickets. If something does, your Travel Insurance should step in to cover it... I think.

When AN went belly up, I had two J redemption flights and about 75k of points at that time. The flights were worthless (as they were on AN) and I believe travel insurance did not cover them as AN was "insolvent".

I was able to get my money back on my paid flights from my bank as I paid with my credit card.

 

[cove]

There is 5 billion net worth and Qantas has not even predicted a net loss this year. They are working on their whole of company profitability and they already have Frequent Flyer and Domestic trading profitably.

 

[lovestotravel]

Points are fine, although I try to earn Velocity points now as I don't really want any more QF points in my account!

Qantas international will not just shut down, in a few years I think it will be just the A380's flying and maybe a tiny number of 787/330's.

Everything else will be Jetstar or just not flown at all anymore

Of course you can always redeems points for flights on other airlines too

 

[dukkha]

QAN quickly lost its cash position, piled up 50% more of its debt to $5.4bn, while issued 30% more shares to 2265mil over that last decade. Last year, its free cash flow is -$872mil. Yes, almost minus $1bn. The recent profit warning and credit downgrade will not help its debt refinancing and certainly will increase interest payment pressure.

Just as a gigantic Titanic takes a long time to sink, so too it takes time for QAN to bleed until its death - a "slow kill" as Mr. Joyce put it. With $3bn+ at its bank, QAN will be able to survive at least another 1-2 years. Meanwhile, OP is better to clean up QFF points such as FASA/JASA.

OP's LTG goal is an interesting question, though. The QFF program will be vastly inflated and the value of LTG will be diluted. One of the popular propaganda during French revolution is "everyman will be a king". After the revolution, suddenly some "kings" has no access to the entire Elysee Palace but only to the toilet cleaning area while other "kings" collect garbage and begging food on the street. If LTG is given to everybody easily, QFF certainly will enhanced out the LTG lounge access that limited LTG privilege to little higher than a bronze or a silver member. It will be valueless, however, should QAN collapsed since there will be no new comers to the closed club. Overall, we are not communist.

There is 5 billion net worth and Qantas has not even predicted a net loss this year. They are working on their whole of company profitability and they already have Frequent Flyer and Domestic trading profitably.

I was trying to buy QAN at $1.03 another day but the price jumped too fast. I will try again if it dropped to $1 in the near future.

 

[simcat]

Having known someone who lost more than 1 million Ansett points, I am much less trusting (that Qantas will always be around that is) now than I was a few years ago. Years ago I would regularly get to 1-1.5 million points every 3 or so years and would only use them once it got to that level. Now, anymore than a few hundred thousand and I look around to use them up.

I don't think Qantas will 'go under' as an airline in any substantive fashion but that doesn't mean it won't have some sort of critical financial re-structuring at some point, where the FF program could be significantly watered down (ie 100 current points = 1 new point) or scrapped. Justification might be, "in order to save the airline we have had to cancel the FF program". Not very likely I think but stranger things have happened....:shock:

 

[amaroo]

Having known someone who lost more than 1 million Ansett points, I am much less trusting (that Qantas will always be around that is) now than I was a few years ago. Years ago I would regularly get to 1-1.5 million points every 3 or so years and would only use them once it got to that level. Now, anymore than a few hundred thousand and I look around to use them up.

I don't think Qantas will 'go under' as an airline in any substantive fashion but that doesn't mean it won't have some sort of critical financial re-structuring at some point, where the FF program could be significantly watered down (ie 100 current points = 1 new point) or scrapped. Justification might be, "in order to save the airline we have had to cancel the FF program". Not very likely I think but stranger things have happened....:shock:

IIRC a few years ago they de-valued the points by around 30% I.E. they simply increased the number of points required to re-deem tickets.

This is what I worry about & therefore, keeps me burning points on a regular occasion.

 

[harvyk]

Q. How safe are my QF FF points?
A. About as safe as any other points redemption program, in other words they will only hold value whilst someone is willing to honor them. That said, QF is actually in a pretty good position as far as airlines go. Unless some massive cooking of books is happening somewhere I suspect that they will still be around next month, and probably next year (right now finding big piece of wood)

As for me personally, I can never get a decent points balance up because every time my points balance starts growing I spend them on frivolous things like flights and upgrades. So having QFF go down is not as major concern as it is for others around here.

 

[drewbles]

Wow a million each ! I'm impressed. Nothing is certain in these times but I do believe the National carrier cannot be allowed to go down by any Government, the embarrassment on the world stage would be too great. I also believe that any serious devaluation of the FF program would do irreparable harm to the brand and would not be considered. I think we all have to be wary of creating a self fulfilling prophesy around QF, that is a real risk IMHO. I have 300k points saved for a big trip in 2014 so I'm watching like everyone else. Keep flying with the National carrier, talk them up and it will never happen (I hope).

As much as I'd like to agree with the 'national carrier' thing, QF are *not* a national carrier. They may be a 'flag' carrier, but the end of the day, business is business. If QF can't make a go of it and (heaven forbid) shut up shop, there's no shortage of options for international travel (are there any QF mainline routes being flown by them and only them with the exception of HNL?).

The government won't step in and save QF if they are going under. They are a private entity, and it would be a loss, but if push came to shove, they would go.

I never sit on my stockpile of QFF points for too long. I get to a suitable level then spend them. I've burned over 2 million points in the past 15 years, and have no plans to keep stockpiling. That said, I just blew 139k on an urgent redemption I had to take on CX, so I do have a small hole in my plan which will take another 6 months or so to make back.

 

[melaus]

I know quite a few people who lost all their Ansett points. People treat FF points as if they're currency but remember they don't have the same protection as a bank deposit has.

Spend them quickly but wisely is my motto.

I'd love to spend them. I have about half a mill QF points, the same amount I lost when Ansett went belly-up.
Could be a message there......hope not!

I mainly fly to Asia from MEL these days and everytime I look to using QF points I find that the extra charges added to the points are in a similar $ amount to the total cost of catching a Jetstar special or using Air Asia...............Yes, I see some of you looking down your noses. Retirement forces some changes!

I've also looked at using QF points to Europe UK. I guess it's the charges levied at that end but again the added dollar cost seems to make the used points seem as though they play no part at all in the deal.

Perhaps someone can advise here: Is there a European city with easy access to the rest of Europe or UK that is reasonably economical to fly in and out of.
I'm quite used to getting around Europe/UK, well, 20-30 years back anyway.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Points are worthless if you don't use them...

 

[melaus]

Points are worthless if you don't use them...

'Point Taken'

But I'm just searching for a good point to dollar ratio, particularly for Europe/UK.

 

[JohnK]

Good question.

I hope they are still around for many years to come as I am striving to get to 1,000,000 QFF points (2/3rd of the way there) and with Lifetime Gold status in the bag by then I will be looking to redeem 7+ Oneworld awards and visit places I have not visited in the past....