How safe are my QF FF points?

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I would be concerned about 'inflation' eroding your points value, some factors:

-Award availability reducing (possibly as QF operated routes reduce)
-Carrier surcharges and taxes increasing (fuel fines etc)
-Award type conditions changing (Telephone 'Assistance' type charges)
-Routes being axed and airline partners withdrawing from the program
 
Good question.

I hope they are still around for many years to come as I am striving to get to 1,000,000 QFF points (2/3rd of the way there) and with Lifetime Gold status in the bag by then I will be looking to redeem 7+ Oneworld awards and visit places I have not visited in the past....

Hate to say it - but if you wait to long the 7 trips might end up being 5 or even lower.
 
Hate to say it - but if you wait to long the 7 trips might end up being 5 or even lower.
Yes I am expecting the next round of enhancements but I am stuck in Brisbane for a little longer and unless I break free I do not have the time unless I take huge chunks of unpaid leave.

First one is planned for ~2014 and my 50th birthday present to myself with golf in the British Isles and maybe the USA....
 
Good question.

I hope they are still around for many years to come as I am striving to get to 1,000,000 QFF points (2/3rd of the way there) and with Lifetime Gold status in the bag by then I will be looking to redeem 7+ Oneworld awards and visit places I have not visited in the past....
Rather than bank, why not start to cash in now? Surely that would make sense (fit it in where you can)? You can still have your 1 million and LTG, just spread it out more. As TTR said, "Points are worthless if you don't use them".
 
The big problem with awards programs such as QFF is the fact that points can be earned (principally) on two fundamentally different bases: miles flown; and (nominal) dollars spent. Whilst flight distances are constant (the distance from SYD to LHR doesn't change), inflation devalues money and results in higher prices and greater nominal spending over time. Hence, a person whose real spending remains the same year-on-year (but whose nominal spending increases with inflation) will, without any change to the earn rates, earn a greater number of points in each successive year. If the earn and burn rates do not change over time, the real spending required to earn a particular flight award decreases over time; however, the flight miles required to earn a particular flight award remains constant. Having the real spending required for a particular award fall over time is not sustainable for the program. Hence, changes to the program earn and burn rates do need to made made over time. This then raises the question of what changes should be made.

If the burn rates simply increase with inflation to compensate for the increased spending earnings, this disadvantages those who earn their points by BIS miles as these people will have to fly further to earn the same reward than they did previously. As time goes by, the program becomes less and less like a frequent flyer program, and more and more like a frequent spender program (as many others have observed elsewhere). If the burn rates do so increase, the BIS earn rates would also have to increase correspondingly, which could ensure the current balance between the real points value of miles flown and dollars spent is maintained (presuming that the current balance is appropriate). The alternative is to decrease the rate at which dollars spent is converted to points, and leave the burn rates as they are.

The following example illustrates how unsustainable and unbalanced maintaining the staus quo would be. Let's say prices double every 28 years (based on a 2.5% inflation rate) and a person's credit card earns them one point per dollar spent. To earn enough points to redeem an award flight that costs 32,000 points, that person has to spend $32,000. In 28 years time, if the earn and burn rates do not change, that person will still only have to spend $32,000 (in 2040 dollars) to earn the same reward. That latter $32,000 (in 2040 dollars) has a real value of $16,000 (in today's money). Accordingly, in the 28 years, the cost of the award has halved in real terms, which is not sutainable for the program. Compare this situation to miles earnt by BIS flying. The BIS flying to earn the required 32,000 points is (on very simple assumptions) 32,000 miles both today and in 2040. If the price of airfares moves in line with inflation, that person will have to spend twice as much in 2040 as they did in 2012 (which is the same amount in real terms). This, whilst the BIS earner spends the same amount in real terms in 2040 (compared to their 2012 spend) and does the same amount of flying (compared to their 2012 flying) to earn the points to redeem a 32,000-point award flight in 2040, the credit card earner need only spend half the amount in real terms in 2040 (compared to their 2012 spending) to redeem a 32,000-point award flight in 2040. With no change to the earn or burn rates, the BIS earner is disadvantaged vis-a-vis the credit card earner. (Of course, the BIS earner and the credit card earner could be the same person. However, the principle is the same--their BIS earning is disadvantaged vis-a-vis their credit card earning.)

Thus, without changes, the program becomes more and more unsustainable over time, and more and more balanced against the BIS earner in favour of the frequent spender.
 
The best point is one that has come & gone!

FWIW I would spend your points on FASA or JASA and fly. I'm assuming that you may not know about ASA (any seats awards) - fly on points & earn points & status credits.

I've burnt around 6M points taking the family on holidays & have a view that one (or family) should bank no more than 1M - remember Ansett & don't discount that QF can de-value the points at any time.....in good times & bad.

My views exactly.

I make a similar number of point per annum on QF and spend them on JASA/FASA as much as possible, even classic awards and leave no more than 1m points at risk at QF.

I lost 2m with Ansett, so....

Its wise to diversify and create some points elsewhere as well!
 
Rather than bank, why not start to cash in now? Surely that would make sense (fit it in where you can)? You can still have your 1 million and LTG, just spread it out more. As TTR said, "Points are worthless if you don't use them".
Understand but I am only interested in redeeming Oneworld awards and I have no time right now to use them.

Using points for upgrades is a huge waste when one can sit in 80AK, 50C on an A380 or 40DG on a 747. I am not going to spend extra purchasing upgradeable airfares just so I can upgrade....
 
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Mrs GPH and I just burned a heap of points for travel in the next 12 months.
No regrets it will take a while but we will accumulate again . Could struggle with getting 2,000,000 points though
 
Well I thought Ansett was safe! I guess the scheme can be terminated or suspended at any time. But interpret all the scaremongering about qantas wisely. I don't believe our national carrier has balance sheet shock..... Big picture
 
Well I thought Ansett was safe! I guess the scheme can be terminated or suspended at any time. But interpret all the scaremongering about qantas wisely. I don't believe our national carrier has balance sheet shock..... Big picture

What national carrier?

I hate people calling Qantas our national carrier! They aren't doing much for our Australia image and aren't even integrated with Tourism Australia.

They are simply a company working in the best interests of their shareholders (badly) and have no responsibility to the Australian public.
 
Yep, I had a significant number of Ansett points that vanished in the blink of an eye. I chose not to use them for flights a number of times because I was specifically saving them up. It's been more than 10 years, but I'm still pissed off about it!
I learned my lesson too from that experience (with Ansett). Had over 400k and lost them all. I now use them when I can (wisely, of course).
 
QF is 1 of the best financially run airlines in the world. They have to operate with first world wages, pay relatively high tax on their profits, while trying to compete with airlines that are Government helped and / or pay little to no tax. SQ has the advantage of being a Government supported company where revenue from the holiday makers is incorporated into their revenue, rather than QF which has to make money ont eh seats alone. Emirates pays no tax on their profits. Most of the airlines flying to Australia also pay their staff a lot less than Jetstar, let alone QF.

Considering the open skies was supposed to give us lower air fares, I'd say with the number of airlines charging more for ex OZ flights than into OZ, that maybe there's something there for the Government to help QF compete.

QF management also need top start treating staff with a bit more respect, and the staff need to realise that they have to adapt or die.

There's no easy answers to the issues QF is facing. A lot of groups have to share responsibility of where things are now, and they all have to find enough common ground to dig themselves out of the whole they find themselves in.

I'd say with the ridiculous fuel surcharge that QF have already devaluded the QFF program significantly. SQ has done the same.
 
OT Pat- you are more likely to see QF send a chartered flight out to bail Australians in need (I can think of the Egypt conflict, and sending an A330 out as part of the search for a troubled Yacht in the Indian Ocean not too long ago) than any of the other carriers.
 
I would never place all my ff points with the one airline, although AA can be a worry at times financially, they do operate in a country which is the world champions of fudging financial positions for no apparent loss. So half my points are with QF and the other half with AA, but I guess that if you live and work in AUS and purchase here with CC you have no choice.

Diversification is a key issue with wealth building, ff points I consider also to be wealth building of sorts, therefore should be diversified away from the one airline if possible.
 
Something that's annoying with the QFF direct earn. The lock in seemed to benefit QF more than anyone else.

At least with Amex MR you can save up the points then decide which FF scheme will get your points.

I suppose then the risk is if Amex will collapse. Fingers crossed.
 
OT Pat- you are more likely to see QF send a chartered flight out to bail Australians in need (I can think of the Egypt conflict, and sending an A330 out as part of the search for a troubled Yacht in the Indian Ocean not too long ago) than any of the other carriers.

QF didn't send a chartered flight to Eygpt or out to look for the yacht, they were paid to do it.

I'm guessing that QF have the most capacity and best relationship with Gov't so are probably asked first, but it wasn't Qantas doing those deeds as a good samaritan, they were (again) just making more money for their shareholders.

FWIW, VA run the Gov't flights to Christmas and Cocos islands, and Strategic were running defence charters too.
 
While it doesn't "look" like QF is seriously in danger of disappearing tomorrow, local and world events have conspired to persuade me that there are few sure bets in life any more.

Your points are probably safe but use them anyway, there's no point having the biggest stash if the worst does happen either to QF or if your personal circumstances change such that (heaven forbid) for whatever reason you can't use them any more. To paraphrase something someone once told me about money, it only becomes yours the moment you spend it.
 
I would try not to bank too many ff points, I have probably spent a couple of million in recent years, I would consider transferring ff points while sucking on a bedside oxygen bottle as an opportunity lost! Suggest that you use them when you can.
 
points will be fine. QF domestic isn't going anywhere, and I can't imagine that QF domestic would leave oneworld??? So you can always claim on partner airlines if QFi got sold etc etc.

That would leave you, exAU, with CX (pretty good)... and UL once they join in 2013 :D
 
Promise not to go dying on us without disclosing your PIN to your beneficiaries.
Not doing that would be the best way to make those points unsafe at the moment.
Time for covering that discussion would be sooner rather than later.
 
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