Qantas Club - Denied Access [QP member before CX flight]

[njh1964]

I don't know if there has been a recent Qantas policy change, but I recently traveled from Melbourne to Manila, via Hong Kong.

I booked and paid for my flights through Qantas, and flew from Melbourne to Hong Kong on a Qantas operated flight. However, the Hong Kong to Manila leg was a code share flight operated by Cathay Pacific... but I didn't think this would be a problem.

I'm a Qantas Club member, with lifetime Silver status (whoopee), so I was surprised when I attempted to use the Qantas lounge in Hong Kong, only to be denied access "because my next flight was with Cathay Pacific".

Apparently, even though I had arrived in Hong Kong on a Qantas flight, even though I had booked the next flight with Qantas, even though I had paid Qantas for the next flight, and even though I had a Qantas branded boarding pass for the next flight... I could not use the Qantas lounge in Hong Kong, because, as far as Qantas was concerned, I had suddenly become a Cathy Pacific customer.

The only thing of any real value to me in holding a Qantas Club membership these days is being able to access Qantas lounges when I'm travelling. I've been a continuous Qantas Club member since 1993... before it was called Qantas Club. Such a petty approach to customer service, as demonstrated by this example, seems to indicate that loyalty is pretty much a one way street with Qantas these days.

 

[opusman]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

If it was a code share flight (i.e. you had a QFxx_x flight number on your boarding pass) I believe you should have been entitled to access.

Next onward flight that day must be a Qantas^, or Jetstar Airlines+flight number

Lounge Locations | China | Hong Kong International Airport | International Lounge

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I think that was the problem... because the flight had a CX number instead of a QF number, then no lounge access... even though the CX flight was booked and paid for through Qantas as part of a single itinerary.

My point is that I chose to travel from Melbourne to Manila with Qantas specifically because I am a Qantas Club member and I assumed that this would mean I'd have access to Qantas lounges during my trip. If I wanted to sit in a plastic chair for 3 hours in Hong Kong, I could have flown with any other airline, and at a lower ticket price.

I guess Qantas will argue that I didn't read the fine print... but it has never been a problem before, so I didn't know to go looking for fine print. All in all, this was just another unpleasant customer service experience with Qantas, which seem to be happening with greater frequency in recent years.

 

[opusman]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Well the rules are the rules; in this instance unfortunately for you the lounge dragon was in the right.

 

[yohy?!]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

There's very few (if any) CX flights that have QF flight numbers on them, in this case QF basically sold you a ticket on a CX flight as part of one itinerary as if they were a travel agent. The only flights that allow QC access are those with QF or JQ codes.

You're probably better off routing through SYD direct to MNL all on Qantas flights next time.

Choose Qantas to enjoy the loungeQantas (QF) flight numbers are available on all Emirates flights to and from Australia and New Zealand, the majority of destinations between Dubai, Europe and the Middle East, as well as key destinations in Africa. So, to make the most of your membership and enjoy lounge access before you fly, simply book the QF flight number.
Qantas Club members will continue to be able to access the Qantas Club lounges when their next onward flight on that day is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, I think your idea of a codeshare may not be totally correct. It would seem by the options offered by the QF site that you were offered a QF flight and a CX flight on the same ticket sold as their respective carriers flight numbers. For the CX flight to be a QF codeshare, it would be displayed as QFxx_x on the QF site with a note that it would be operated by CX.

Unfortunately I think you were correctly denied access in HKG.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, I think your idea of a codeshare may not be totally correct. It would seem by the options offered by the QF site that you were offered a QF flight and a CX flight on the same ticket sold as their respective carriers flight numbers. For the CX flight to be a QF codeshare, it would be displayed as QFxx_x on the QF site with a note that it would be operated by CX.

Unfortunately I think you were correctly denied access in HKG.

With all due respect, I'm not arguing about whether the flight had a QF or a CX prefix, nor am I particularly interested in the being schooled on the industry definition of a "codeshare" flight.

My point is that I paid Qantas to get me from Point A (ie Melbourne) to Point B (ie Manila). As such, and as a Qantas Club member, I don't think is it unreasonable to assume that this would include being able to access Qantas Club lounges along the way.

Qantas has buried any mention of this "rule" in an obscure footnote in a dead-end area of their web site. After the event, it literally took me around 10 minutes to find the rule reference, and that was after I knew there was a rule somewhere to be found on the site!

Anyway, Qantas knew I was a Qantas Club member when I made the booking. Qantas knew they weren't going to let me into Qantas Club in Hong Kong, because they were booking me on a Cathay Pacific flight, so they should at least have made me aware of this during the booking process. It's not as if Qantas doesn't know how to use pop-up windows on their web site when they're trying to flog me something.

At the end of the day, if you're not planning to provide part of a service which a reasonable person would assume is going to be included, then you need to tell the person so they can decide if they still wish to proceed. It's just good business practice... not to mention good manners.

 

[Reggie78]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Anyway, Qantas knew I was a Qantas Club member when I made the booking.

Not to fan any flames, but it could also be that QANTAS assumed that you understood the rules of lounge access as part of the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you originally signed up.

Reg.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, I am not going to get started with all of this with all due respect rubbish.

However your misunderstanding of the rules here have lead to your disappointment, I am trying to point out so that you can learn from it.

Point 1 - if it has taken 10 minutes to find the eligibility of the lounges, you can find it much quicker.

The second paragraph is what you are after - no mention of a CX flight number providing access



As your definition of a codeshare is different to the actual definition, it is fairly important to help with understanding this situation. It is your flight number that governs access here, so the fact you purchased a CX flight with a CX flight number from the QF site means that you haven't purchased a QF codeshare here.

You have suggested that QF booked you onto the CX flight. Again, they present the options (which from my quick search there are other options), it is up to the purchaser to accept the combinations presented.

Whilst you may be disappointed here, the information isn't hidden as what you have suggested not were you forced to fly on the CX flight as you have mentioned.

As you have singled my post out for some criticism, I am only here to help you try to understand why your points you have made may not be correct.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Not to fan any flames, but it could also be that QANTAS assumed that you understood the rules of lounge access as part of the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you originally signed up.

Reg.

Again, I'm not arguing that I have some kind of legal case against Qantas... the rule (albeit badly worded) is there on the Qantas web site, once you actually manage to track it down.

My point is that no one reads the entire terms and conditions document when they are booking a ticket. Nor do they read any of the multiple documents (eg Qantas Club access rules) which are referred to in the terms and conditions.

Qantas takes the time and effort to make you click on the "agree" button to accept the terms and conditions, so how hard could it be to have another pop-up which says something like, "One of the legs of your booking is not operated by Qantas. Although you are a Qantas Club member, you will not be able to access the Qantas Club lounge for that leg. Do you still wish to proceed with the booking? Yes or No."

I don't know... is that too much to ask? It would certainly be better than right royally annoying an already tired customer by relegating him to a departure lounge chair for a 3 hour layover.

 

[basso]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Qantas takes the time and effort to make you click on the "agree" button to accept the terms and conditions, so how hard could it be to have another pop-up which says something like, "One of the legs of your booking is not operated by Qantas. Although you are a Qantas Club member, you will not be able to access the Qantas Club lounge for that leg. Do you still wish to proceed with the booking? Yes or No."

So what you want is Qantas to have 122 pop up boxes covering all the combinations of gotchas that you won't read anyway?

 

[Reggie78]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I personally think it is too much to ask, considering it's not their job to keep track of everyone's memberships and how they use them. You could always put in a suggestion to QANTAS to ask their web designers to create a script that scours the QP membership list and your FF number and then generate a pop-up. For a savvy designer/programmer it shouldn't be too much. Not sure the weight that 1 person would have on getting it through.

As pointed out earlier, you had the option to fly SYD-MNL on QF flight number, and there wouldn't have been any issue at all.

Appreciate your frustration, but sometimes you have to just throw your arms up, curse a little, and move on. It is what it is...

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I understand your disappointment but I can't agree that this rule is obscure.
I am not a Qantas Club member - but I know that membership only gives access when flying with the Qantas Group (ie QF, JQ, 3K etc).
That is one of the reasons I have never been a member! I've never understood why people who buy a membership receive fewer privileges than status PAX.
Also it seems to me to be a catch 22 - if you fly enough for lounge access to be worth buying, you'll probably earn it through status anyway.
So in my humble opinion the real issue is whether the membership is worth it, not whether there is sufficient notice of the rules.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, I am not going to get started with all of this with all due respect rubbish.

However your misunderstanding of the rules here have lead to your disappointment, I am trying to point out so that you can learn from it.

Point 1 - if it has taken 10 minutes to find the eligibility of the lounges, you can find it much quicker.
View attachment 58646
The second paragraph is what you are after - no mention of a CX flight number providing access

View attachment 58647

As your definition of a codeshare is different to the actual definition, it is fairly important to help with understanding this situation. It is your flight number that governs access here, so the fact you purchased a CX flight with a CX flight number from the QF site means that you haven't purchased a QF codeshare here.

You have suggested that QF booked you onto the CX flight. Again, they present the options (which from my quick search there are other options), it is up to the purchaser to accept the combinations presented.

Whilst you may be disappointed here, the information isn't hidden as what you have suggested not were you forced to fly on the CX flight as you have mentioned.

As you have singled my post out for some criticism, I am only here to help you try to understand why your points you have made may not be correct.

Please accept my apologies for attempting to remain polite in the face of your very bureaucratic responses to my comments. You are, of course, free to express your opinions, even to the extent of sounding like an apologist for Qantas.

The problem is not that I do not understand the rule. The problem, in my opinion, is that: (a) the rule is unreasonable given that I booked the entire trip with Qantas, and, (b) it is a rule which really should be brought to the customer's attention when the booking is being made. Again, just my humble opinion.

Please feel free to express your opinion as to whether or not you think the rule is fair, or if you think customers should be made aware of the rule before they finalise their booking. If I had know about the rule, I would not have booked that flight. I know, I know... buyer beware, but there you have it.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

So what you want is Qantas to have 122 pop up boxes covering all the combinations of gotchas that you won't read anyway?

Nope, just the important ones... like do I get to use the Qantas Club lounge.

 

[Mac502]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I think this rule is fair. Mind you, I do miss the old Terraces access on BA.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I personally think it is too much to ask, considering it's not their job to keep track of everyone's memberships and how they use them. You could always put in a suggestion to QANTAS to ask their web designers to create a script that scours the QP membership list and your FF number and then generate a pop-up. For a savvy designer/programmer it shouldn't be too much. Not sure the weight that 1 person would have on getting it through.

As pointed out earlier, you had the option to fly SYD-MNL on QF flight number, and there wouldn't have been any issue at all.

Appreciate your frustration, but sometimes you have to just throw your arms up, curse a little, and move on. It is what it is...

Sorry, but we're talking about a loyalty programme here. It absolutely is Qantas' job to keep track of how they interact with their customers. What purpose is there for having a loyalty programme other than to recognise regular customers and to reward them for their loyalty?

If I'd known about the lounge access issue, I would have booked a different flight.

Trust me... I did throw up my arms, I cursed a lot (but not audibly) and I will move on after I've vented... which is about now.

 

[TonyHancock]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

My last flight to PEK was through HKG booked with QF. The onward flight to PEK from HKG was on HX. I made sure I had my PP card with me because I knew as a QF WP1 and OWE I did not have access to the QF or any OW lounges in HKG.*

It always pays to know where you stand in advance whether you are a frequent flyer, and I am by no means one of them, or a paid up QP member.

*(As it happens the flight from MEL to HKG was delayed due to heavy storms in the HKG area so QF rather kindly organised a host to escort me through security and deposit me in the QF lounge because the HX flight was also delayed....which I thought was all rather lovely and beyond the expectations I had.)

 

[Ausbt]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

The problem is not that I do not understand the rule. The problem, in my opinion, is that: (a) the rule is unreasonable given that I booked the entire trip with Qantas, and, (b) it is a rule which really should be brought to the customer's attention when the booking is being made. Again, just my humble opinion.

I totally agree with you njh1964, it's a silly rule that actually reduces the value of a paid QC membership. It's a QC, you are a member, you should be able to get in. There must be one hell of a lot of pedantic lawyers on this site, and many who are failing the 'reasonable person' test on this one IMHO. I'm an ex-SG and a while further back an ex-QC paid member. Oddly enough, Q 'comped' me PS this year. Geeze, thanks. Well, at least I'll use the one comp QC invite when I take a J* flight later this year.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I totally agree with you njh1964, it's a silly rule that actually reduces the value of a paid QC membership. It's a QC, you are a member, you should be able to get in. There must be one hell of a lot of pedantic lawyers on this site, and many who are failing the 'reasonable person' test on this one IMHO. I'm an ex-SG and a while further back an ex-QC paid member. Oddly enough, Q 'comped' me PS this year. Geeze, thanks. Well, at least I'll use the one comp QC invite when I take a J* flight later this year.

When was the last time a paid-QP member could access the Qantas lounge (or eligible lounge) prior to flying on a CX flight number by virtue of the QP membership?