Qantas Club - Denied Access [QP member before CX flight]

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I agree about the complexity of lounge access rules .. totally sucks. Which is why so often here you see advice that people take the rules applicable to their situation in hardcopy. If the OP did that .... um ... ahem. However, I think the rule in question here isn't one of the obscure ones, but one of the fundamental ones - QP membership gets you in prior to QF group marketed flights; but opinions do vary on the 'importance' of this of course.

Its not like I don't have some empathy with the OP. I'm about to drop from years at 75K Elite on Air Canada (Star Alliance gold) to lower-than-scum nothing :shock: . I'm looking for a rule change re Maple Leaf lounge access ...

Ok, forgive me, but why have you been busting my chops for simply expressing an opinion that the rule should be that if you buy a ticket from Qantas, you should be able to use the Qantas lounge when flying on that ticket? To me, this seems far cleaner, fairer and easier for "Joe Punter" to understand than is the case with the current lounge access rules.

As for carrying a hard copy of the Qantas Club rules with me when travelling... that was a joke, right? I have enough trouble remembering to take my passport .

Good luck with the Maple Leaf lounge access. Hopefully, Air Canada recognises your years of loyalty with a little reciprocity.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I see now. When you have Gold or Platinum with QF you "are" a QC member, but with very different access rules from a paid up QC member. Which may have lead to your lack of understanding of the access rules.

Yes TomVexille I think that may well be the problem

 

[Deleted member]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Well the rules are the rules; in this instance unfortunately for you the lounge dragon was in the right.

That's why you need oneworld status.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, don't take those with differing opinions as that they are attacking you. Many of these posts have pointed out things that it would seem that haven't been taken into account, that is how this site works we learn off each other.

Historically, the QF site has offered flights with many different airlines (UA, SQ and PR are a couple that spring to mind). If QF were to offer lounge access for 100% of flights sold on the QF site to QP members, there would be a significant price rise to accommodate for the many partnerships that would be required to cater for all of the permutations.

Whilst it may sound great in theory, I don't think the actual implications have been taken into account.

 

[opusman]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Lounge access rules are ridiculously complex and convoluted, not to mention complicated. It's not surprising people get confused at times.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Lounge access rules are ridiculously complex and convoluted, not to mention complicated. It's not surprising people get confused at times.

In all fairness this isn't one of those cases. CX Flight number = no access is fairly simple in the scheme of things.

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To the OP, don't take those with differing opinions as that they are attacking you. Many of these posts have pointed out things that it would seem that haven't been taken into account, that is how this site works we learn off each other.

Historically, the QF site has offered flights with many different airlines (UA, SQ and PR are a couple that spring to mind). If QF were to offer lounge access for 100% of flights sold on the QF site to QP members, there would be a significant price rise to accommodate for the many partnerships that would be required to cater for all of the permutations.

Whilst it may sound great in theory, I don't think the actual implications have been taken into account.

I don't have a problem with differing opinions. However, exactly how should I interpret your comment in an earlier post when you stated that "I'm not going to get started with all of this with all due respect rubbish"? I choose my words carefully and deliberately. You may think it a cliche, but when I use the words "with all due respect", I mean just that. I respect your opinion, but I reserve the right to have a different point of view, and to express it... preferably without being rubbished.

As for the above comment, I think your points are valid, but, really, how much extra would it cost for Qantas to allow Qantas Club members to use the lounge in situations such as I have described. After 22 years of membership, is a comfy seat, a couple of beers and a plate of food too much to ask for between flights... even if the next flight is with a partner airline which was booked through Qantas?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

As for the above comment, I think your points are valid, but, really, how much extra would it cost for Qantas to allow Qantas Club members to use the lounge in situations such as I have described. After 22 years of membership, is a comfy seat, a couple of beers and a plate of food too much to ask for between flights... even if the next flight is with a partner airline which was booked through Qantas?

Yes it is.
You have stated that up until the past year you held OW airline status with QF.
I presume that prior to the formation of OW you had access to the Qantas Club on QF flights.
I do not understand why it would it be a surprise to you that you cannot access a Qantas lounge prior to a CX flight? Having dropped to a status on QF/ One World which did not come with lounge access you purchased Qantas Club membership which gives you access before a QF/JQ flight. Do you think that every flight you buy on the QF website gives you lounge access as Qantas club member? Serious question. On the QF website you can purchase tickets on Air NZ and United amongst others. Do you think that if you purchase those fares in conjunction with a QF sector that QF should notify you upfront that you won't have lounge access as a Qantas Club member?

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Yes it is.
You have stated that up until the past year you held OW airline status with QF.
I presume that prior to the formation of OW you had access to the Qantas Club on QF flights.
I do not understand why it would it be a surprise to you that you cannot access a Qantas lounge prior to a CX flight? Having dropped to a status on QF/ One World which did not come with lounge access you purchased Qantas Club membership which gives you access before a QF/JQ flight. Do you think that every flight you buy on the QF website gives you lounge access as Qantas club member? Serious question. On the QF website you can purchase tickets on Air NZ and United amongst others. Do you think that if you purchase those fares in conjunction with a QF sector that QF should notify you upfront that you won't have lounge access as a Qantas Club member?

Seriously? I cannot argue with the impeccable logic of your position, but aren't you also being just a little bit pedantic. Isn't the core purpose of the Qantas Club to recognise and reward frequent flyer loyalty, and to thereby generate repeat business? How does penny pinching on lounge access help Qantas to improve their perceived levels of customer service? How does it make someone like me think, "Gee, I'll definitely be travelling with Qantas again... and I'll tell all my friends what a great airline they are".

Quite simply, after several years of being able to access the lounge, apparently due to my One World status, it did come as a surprise that this situation changed after I was demoted to the lowly rungs of Qantas Club membership. I do not recall receiving any advice from Qantas regarding my change in circumstance, possible because I was far too busy receiving emails from Qantas about which boxed wine set I might like to buy from them.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Ok, forgive me, but why have you been busting my chops for simply expressing an opinion that the rule should be that if you buy a ticket from Qantas, you should be able to use the Qantas lounge when flying on that ticket? To me, this seems far cleaner, fairer and easier for "Joe Punter" to understand than is the case with the current lounge access rules.

As for carrying a hard copy of the Qantas Club rules with me when travelling... that was a joke, right? I have enough trouble remembering to take my passport .

Good luck with the Maple Leaf lounge access. Hopefully, Air Canada recognises your years of loyalty with a little reciprocity.

To be frank, my own comments have been on the more pointed side because you have argued the toss with folks from the start who have proffered simple and correct advice as to why lounge access was denied. I was trying for a bit of 'cut-through' which clearly hasn't worked.

By all means express opinions about lounge access rules; by all means have a bit of a rant - goodness knows, I have done both from time to time. But in this case its a simple, long standing rule and you appeared to fail to accept that what you paid for was a CX flight, not a Qantas one and Qantas was just an agent for it. I think Princess Fiona has just put it best (who I see you continue to argue the toss with).

About taking lounge access rules in hardcopy. No, not a joke - it is repeatedly suggested in this forum. Shouldn't have to happen, but I know that because of the complexity of rules, in cases for instance like Qantas pax using Alaskan Boardroom at LAX, the lounge people probably won't know the rules so one has to show them if you want to get in. There are a couple of threads about at the moment about QP people not being allowed into the Qantas/OW business lounge at LAX (now that IS a mistake). I'd definitely advise any QP member to take hardcopy of the rules for that lounge with them, given the history of people wrongly being denied access.

As for my own situation - I'm resigned to spending more time in Starbucks when flying Air Canada. I don't expect much reciprocity of past 'loyalty' from Qantas, let alone AC.

Seriously? I cannot argue with the impeccable logic of your position, but aren't you also being just a little bit pedantic. Isn't the core purpose of the Qantas Club to recognise and reward frequent flyer loyalty, and to thereby generate repeat business? How does penny pinching on lounge access help Qantas to improve their perceived levels of customer service? How does it make someone like me think, "Gee, I'll definitely be travelling with Qantas again... and I'll tell all my friends what a great airline they are".
<snip>.

Obviously, as you have lost status in QFF, Qantas has deemed you (and all in your situation) not loyal enough. In their business strategy, it "should" make you think about travelling more with Qantas, as that way you will regain status and automatic QP access. Probably won't do that, but you might perceive what they are getting at.

Don't worry, just about all of us are feeling less loved by Qantas - again, many threads here on that topic and how 'loyalty' to the airline (actually any airline) isn't reciprocated by much these days. So you are not alone - its just that in your original point about being denied lounge access, the airline was correct .

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

To be frank, my own comments have been on the more pointed side because you have argued the toss with folks from the start who have proffered simple and correct advice as to why lounge access was denied. I was trying for a bit of 'cut-through' which clearly hasn't worked.

By all means express opinions about lounge access rules; by all means have a bit of a rant - goodness knows, I have done both from time to time. But in this case its a simple, long standing rule and you appeared to fail to accept that what you paid for was a CX flight, not a Qantas one and Qantas was just an agent for it. I think Princess Fiona has just put it best (who I see you continue to argue the toss with).

About taking lounge access rules in hardcopy. No, not a joke - it is repeatedly suggested in this forum. Shouldn't have to happen, but I know that because of the complexity of rules, in cases for instance like Qantas pax using Alaskan Boardroom at LAX, the lounge people probably won't know the rules so one has to show them if you want to get in. There are a couple of threads about at the moment about QP people not being allowed into the Qantas/OW business lounge at LAX (now that IS a mistake). I'd definitely advise any QP member to take hardcopy of the rules for that lounge with them, given the history of people wrongly being denied access.

As for my own situation - I'm resigned to spending more time in Starbucks when flying Air Canada. I don't expect much reciprocity of past 'loyalty' from Qantas, let alone AC.



Obviously, as you have lost status in QFF, Qantas has deemed you (and all in your situation) not loyal enough. In their business strategy, it "should" make you think about travelling more with Qantas, as that way you will regain status and automatic QP access. Probably won't do that, but you might perceive what they are getting at.

Don't worry, just about all of us are feeling less loved by Qantas - again, many threads here on that topic and how 'loyalty' to the airline (actually any airline) isn't reciprocated by much these days. So you are not alone - its just that in your original point about being denied lounge access, the airline was correct .

Please... let me be clear, once and for all. I have not and I am not arguing the toss as to whether or not Qantas' rule allows them to deny me access to the lounge... the rule says I'm not entitled, and so, I'm not entitled.

All those who have pointed this out along the way are completely correct, and I completely agree.

Also, just because I wasn't aware of the rule doesn't mean the rule shouldn't apply to me... that is not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that I think the rule is a dud, a customer service faux pas, and a penny-pinching error in judgement on the part of Qantas. By all means, tell me if you disagree, but please stop saying that I don't understand the rule.

I think you're right that Qantas has the whole loyalty concept the wrong way around these days. We have to prove our loyalty to them in order to earn status, rather than the other way round. I can't think of too many business models where that has worked in favour of the company over the long term.

 

[defurax]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

If you had bought the exact same ticket on Expedia or Webjet would you still say that you gave your money to Qantas?

 

[TomVexille]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Isn't the core purpose of the Qantas Club to recognise and reward frequent flyer loyalty, and to thereby generate repeat business? How does penny pinching on lounge access help Qantas to improve their perceived levels of customer service? How does it make someone like me think, "Gee, I'll definitely be travelling with Qantas again... and I'll tell all my friends what a great airline they are".

Unfortunately for the mug punters like you and I, Qantas Loyalty is a money making business which isn't really about loyalty. QC membership is meant to lock you into flying QF flight numbers and QF numbers only. Thus forcing "loyalty"

If you had bought the exact same ticket on Expedia or Webjet would you still say that you gave your money to Qantas?

Actually yes, had to buy one from expedia last week and the merchant on my CC statement is QF.

 

[Deleted member]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Actually yes, had to buy one from expedia last week and the merchant on my CC statement is QF.

Not the CX portion !

 

[Deleted member]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Seriously? I cannot argue with the impeccable logic of your position, but aren't you also being just a little bit pedantic. Isn't the core purpose of the Qantas Club to recognise and reward frequent flyer loyalty, and to thereby generate repeat business? How does penny pinching on lounge access help Qantas to improve their perceived levels of customer service? How does it make someone like me think, "Gee, I'll definitely be travelling with Qantas again... and I'll tell all my friends what a great airline they are".

Quite simply, after several years of being able to access the lounge, apparently due to my One World status, it did come as a surprise that this situation changed after I was demoted to the lowly rungs of Qantas Club membership. I do not recall receiving any advice from Qantas regarding my change in circumstance, possible because I was far too busy receiving emails from Qantas about which boxed wine set I might like to buy from them.

And again you miss the point. I have been a QP life member for 30 years ( Australian Airlines Flight Deck in its first incarnation) and I know that flying on another airline doesn't entitle me access to their lounge. "Code Share" is a different matter. But you didn't book a code share, you booked CX on CX metal via their "Agent" (QF). I am confused about one thing though. You said ( I think) that QF booked you onto CX ! I thought you actually selected the flights. If that's not the case you might have cause for complaint if the QF person didn't warn you.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

What I am saying is that I think the rule is a dud, a customer service faux pas, and a penny-pinching error in judgement on the part of Qantas. By all means, tell me if you disagree, but please stop saying that I don't understand the rule.

I think you're right that Qantas has the whole loyalty concept the wrong way around these days. We have to prove our loyalty to them in order to earn status, rather than the other way round. I can't think of too many business models where that has worked in favour of the company over the long term.

I see someone who is emotional about being denied and not using logic to defend the claim.

There is no penny pinching by Qantas - QC membership has never let you access the lounge in this fashion.
Not sure what customer service has to do with anything either.

At the end of the day while you may be loyal to the Qantas brand - loyalty is shown back to you thought FF status. You're no longer a status member because you are not a frequent flyer anymore. Are you loyal? Yes - probably 100% share of your wallet goes to QFF - but this isn't how loyalty is measured by Qantas and you cannot expect to receive recognition of this through a paid lounge program that has very strict rules and conditions, especially when flying other airlines.

This may mean your choice of carrier needs to change but whatever the case - Qantas isn't at fault. Move on.

 

[Anna]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

The OP is the third QP PS member that I know of who has had a nasty surprise at HKG re lounge access, after booking flights on the QF website. Yes AFFers know all the rules and notice that one flight on a long itinerary has CX not QF as its prefix and realise the significance of that, but most people don't. I don't think it would hurt QF to say "we'll let you in this time, but next time you will know the access rules...."

 

[njh1964]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

If you had bought the exact same ticket on Expedia or Webjet would you still say that you gave your money to Qantas?

No... as I said in post #28 "if I had purchased my flight from Hong Kong to Manila directly from Cathay Pacific, then I wouldn't expect to be able to use the Qantas Club lounge in Hong Kong."

 

[SeatBackForward]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

The title is wrong , you weren't denied, as you were never entitled to use the lounge under the ticket you bought.

 

[serfty]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

...
There is no penny pinching by Qantas - QC membership has never let you access the lounge in this fashion.
Not sure what customer service has to do with anything either. ...

Incorrect - see my earlier post!

Qantas CLUB membership is nothing to do with loyalty these days. It may have been two decade ago, but things have changed.