why is row 4 open to gold members at T80 - is this new?

[haggiscat]

qf766 on the 8th of september now has row 4 open to gold members - is this usual?

 

[opusman]

I thought all seats were open to everyone at T-80, but may be wrong.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

It's a free for all at T-80

 

[ferni]

Not true. I tried to pick a decent seat for my wife(NB) at T-80 on a 737-800 MEL BNE and couldn't get past row 19.

 

[docjames]

When on what usually turn out to be lightly loaded flights, I can usually see Row 4 for selection (SG) from T-80.

Peak time / full flights the WPs are usually ensconsced there already by T-80.

 

[medhead]

Not true. I tried to pick a decent seat for my wife(NB) at T-80 on a 737-800 MEL BNE and couldn't get past row 19.

It can be true, as long as you get the timing right.


Sent from the Throne

 

[serfty]

It's a free for all at T-80

It may look like a free for all from the perspective of a P1 or even WP, but with notional seats , those with the highest PCV's will see more availability than those with the lowest.

It is conceivable that haggiscats's SG's may have higher PCVs for the flight in question that some WPs booked on on the same flight.

 

[medhead]

I've consistently seen a free for all, depending on timing, as a gold and maybe as silver. I've also achieved a slight variation for my mum as a bronze. Timing is the key and the free for all is time limited.


Sent from the Throne

 

[mannej]

Not true. I tried to pick a decent seat for my wife(NB) at T-80 on a 737-800 MEL BNE and couldn't get past row 19.

You are forgetting that anything further forward may already be taken.

 

[oz_mark]

Not that unusual in my experience, and doesn't happen all the time. It really depends on what value other customers on the flight are assigned.

As for timing, keep in mind that ranking and theoretical seat assignment occurs after each person selects a seat, so the whole process is quite dynamic.

 

[serfty]

... and to note that once Altéa is fully invoked for a flight that the seats shown for selection do not include those already pre-assigned or reserved for passengers with a better PCV.

e.g. Say a flight 180 seats has 150 PAX booked on it.

An SG has a ranking within those 150 of 31 and has not yet preselected a seat.

In this example 50 seats have already been preselected, 10 for PAX with a PCV better than 31 and 40 seats for PAX with a worse PCV (the latter group could include SSRs like a Wheelchair PAX being assigned a forwardish aisle seat, or a family of 4 with one infant having 3 seats pre-assigned in the back row).

This leaves 130 seats for selection.

When the SG goes to choose their seat on-line they are presented with a selection of 110 available.

70 seats shown as 'taken/unavailable'.

They cannot select from any of the 50 seats already preselected (well Duh!).

Nor can they select from the 'best' 20 unallocated; these are reserved for those with a better PCV than the SG and who have not yet selected a seat.

 

[medhead]

I have consistently had the option to choose any seat on the aircraft. My next qantas flight is next week, I'll try to remember to get a picture.


Sent from the Throne

 

[trippin_the_rift]

... and to note that once Altéa is fully invoked for a flight that the seats shown for selection do not include those already pre-assigned or reserved for passengers with a better PCV.

e.g. Say a flight 180 seats has 150 PAX booked on it.

An SG has a ranking within those 150 of 31 and has not yet preselected a seat.

In this example 50 seats have already been preselected, 10 for PAX with a PCV better than 31 and 40 seats for PAX with a worse PCV (the latter group could include SSRs like a Wheelchair PAX being assigned a forwardish aisle seat, or a family of 4 with one infant having 3 seats pre-assigned in the back row).

This leaves 130 seats for selection.

When the SG goes to choose their seat on-line they are presented with a selection of 110 available.

70 seats shown as 'taken/unavailable'.

They cannot select from any of the 50 seats already preselected (well Duh!).

Nor can they select from the 'best' 20 unallocated; these are reserved for those with a better PCV than the SG and who have not yet selected a seat.

I like the theory behind this, however from my experience it's simply not this way.
Also, middle seats appear to be considered "premium", despite being in the first few rows of Y. Again this is untrue, and means a Bronze/Silver can snag an aisle seat down the back when the Platinum member has the choice of a few "premium" middle seats.

Additionally.....countless times I've had a non-status passenger next to me. It's as if I'm really a nobody but the boarding pass says otherwise ;p

The system is broken!

 

[serfty]

I like the theory behind this, however from my experience it's simply not this way.
Also, middle seats appear to be considered "premium", despite being in the first few rows of Y. Again this is untrue, and means a Bronze/Silver can snag an aisle seat down the back when the Platinum member has the choice of a few "premium" middle seats.

Additionally.....countless times I've had a non-status passenger next to me. It's as if I'm really a nobody but the boarding pass says otherwise ;p

The system is broken!

In it's pure form that what would happen.

I believe there have been a string of compromises - including permitting agents to easily override the philosophy and place statusless PAX on better 'value' seats and blocking swags of seating down the back for UMs, late check in families etc.

(Note even that in said "pure" form is it quite possible for late check-in status less PAX to be seated in say 4B on full flights).

 

[dodgeyhack]

Nor can they select from the 'best' 20 unallocated; these are reserved for those with a better PCV than the SG and who have not yet selected a seat.

That fits in with what I've seen (as PS currently).
On work trips (with a more expensive fare), I'll have a good selection.
On personal trips which are almost always cheapest fare I'll have far less selection.

 

[Per_Travels]

I like the theory behind this, however from my experience it's simply not this way.
Also, middle seats appear to be considered "premium", despite being in the first few rows of Y. Again this is untrue, and means a Bronze/Silver can snag an aisle seat down the back when the Platinum member has the choice of a few "premium" middle seats.

Additionally.....countless times I've had a non-status passenger next to me. It's as if I'm really a nobody but the boarding pass says otherwise ;p

The system is broken!

My experience as WP1 is that I seem to have a fainter shadow than previously. Several times I've been in the front row of Y and have had someone next to me whilst the middle seats in the next few rows have been empty. So much so that I've started to consider going back to my old seat selections that were available as WP in the hope that my shadow may regain it's previous vigour.

 

[JohnK]

It can be true, as long as you get the timing right.

In my experience that is not always the case.

Some of my Friday afternoon flights are almost impossible to get row 4 on 737 or row 23 on 767 where as hardly any issues for the Sunday evening flights. I am guessing there are a lot of heavyweights on the Friday afternoon/evening flights who would more than likely travel on a Monday morning.

YMMV

 

[haggiscat]

My experience as gold was that rows 4 and 5 would remain blocked until checkin time, every time - and I checked all the time.

Likewise, my experience booking for this guy who is gold has been that I get on to the computer 24 hours before and try to get him row 4.

This is what I was doing yesterday when I confirmed the row 4 seat in the first flight and the next page for the return flight came up, to my surprise.

Most interesting - he has many forward bookings with Qantas - how is perceived value assigned?

 

[serfty]

...
Most interesting - he has many forward bookings with Qantas - how is perceived value assigned?

See this post:

Just out of interest does anyone know if the class of fare is taken into account in the current and future system of allocation? Does a SG on a E class fare have access to seats that a NB/No status on a K/Y fare would not? ...

I believe the Altea system introduced last year is prividing a weighted value per PAX for each flight, referred to as a PCV. See post #63 of this very thread:

What IS the current system and how does it differ to what's explained above?

see here:
Another interesting Post on the Related FT thread on this article. The author lists their occupation as an "Analyst for Airline Industry":

Alright before this speculation gets out of hand (and believe me, this article is way off base with its story!!!), let me explain this concept.

With Qantas' switch of reservation system, there are alot of behind the scenes changes that have taken place. One of these new concepts is called 'Theoretical Seats,' and believe me when I say that it is an excellent idea in theory, but it will take some time to iron out the issues Qantas is currently going through. Basically, Qantas has setup a list order (call it a value) of each pax for each and every flight (as well as values for individual seats on an aircraft). The ranking order takes into account FF status, PNR associations, SSRs, booking class, etc.

So, behind the scene before a pax even shows up to check-in, the system has allocated 'theoretical seats' for EVERY pax on that flight, depending the ranking order. What this means is that a pax with a high ranking order will have access to almost every seat available on the flight. A pax with a low ranking order will ONLY SEE SEATS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BLOCKED BY THE 'THEORETICAL SEATS' FOR HIGHER RANKING PAX. Generally, if a flight is booked full (oversold), a low-ranking pax will see maybe 1 or 2 seats, or none at all available to them.

What this concept tries to do, is give pax with FF status, higher fare tickets, etc. better seats on an aircraft when pre-assignment is out of the question (QF doesn't pre-assign domestic seats, same for intra-Europe flights and Eurpoean carriers). Now, the issues that QF has had with this function relate to the way in which it had set up the ranking of pax. Families were checking in for flights and being spread out throughout an aircraft, and FF bookings (for status pax) were showing up at the bottom of the ranking order. QF has since fixed a lot of these issues internally, and regarding the article in question, THIS HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BUMPING PAX. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. I'm not sure where that idea came from.

Now, the most difficult as you can imagine, is a check-in agent trying to explain this to pax as they are checking in bright and early for a flight, and not being allowed to access an open seat. It's a very complex situation, and not an easy one to explain.

So, hopefully that sheds some light onto the issue, but I would definitely take the article with a grain of salt, because there is very little valuable substance to it.

I do not believe this system is going to change that much; I would expect this change to be an extension or enhancement of this "Theoretical Seats" based component of Altea.

Note this PCV can also be used to assist with deciding on op-ups.

 

[medhead]

In my experience that is not always the case.

Some of my Friday afternoon flights are almost impossible to get row 4 on 737 or row 23 on 767 where as hardly any issues for the Sunday evening flights. I am guessing there are a lot of heavyweights on the Friday afternoon/evening flights who would more than likely travel on a Monday morning.

YMMV

I don't know, i have been in row 4 and noticed a black CL tag going to row 5 or 6. Monday morning flights from Adelaide are pretty heavy as well. I wish I could say more but it has been made clear my views are meaningless. But I will be checking next week. Maybe I'll get a rude surprise, it is my first qantas flight for a few weeks.


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