Article: Qantas Points “The Envy of the World”? Absolutely Not!

[AFF Editor]

Qantas Points “The Envy of the World”? Absolutely Not! is an article written by AFF editorial staff:

Qantas Points "The Envy of the World"? Absolutely Not, Mr Joyce!

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce recently told a room full of business leaders and journalists in Perth that the airline's frequent flyer scheme and points "are the

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

One has to remember the audience Alan Joyce was talking to - business leaders. So when he says that QFF is "the envy of the world" he's clearly talking about being the envy of other businesses, for having a program that generates such high profits while providing such poor value to customers.

 

[Kiwi_Flyer]

Yes at times qff generates more in profits than the core business of flying pax around.

 

[kpc]

AJ is infamous for exaggerating the truth...aka as bulls...ting!

 

[bokflyer]

Couldn't agree more with this article. Tried searching for availability to Europe at the 353 day mark, as a Platinum, and found zero availability on any Qantas or Emirates flights, and virtually nothing on Oneworld partners. Plenty on Krisflyer, so I'm directing my spending and flying in that direction from now on.

 

[dingogav]

Such a well written piece. Qantas management have really lost the plot! Only now have they made the decision to implement proper training!! Directing all award related queries to Hobart would be a great initiative to start Qantas’ turnaround.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

DSCs keep those at platinum level happy. Salt and pepper squid and the ability to ‘release’ award seats.

As for the millions of award seats… that’s probably true. They’re just not in the cabins we want on AFF. ‘Thousands’ of points only planes? I find that hard to understand.

 

[cove]

We have AA Miles and Kris Flyer Miles that are worth two to four times the value of a Qantas point. Even Velocity points are better.

 

[Limewood]

I've had more long-haul Qantas FF award fights than I can remember up until Covid. Points required now in J jacked way up, and finding award flights for two to USA, Asia and Europe, hard to find flights 6/9 months out, Qanats stop treating us like this.

 

[levelnine]

One has to remember the audience Alan Joyce was talking to - business leaders. So when he says that QFF is "the envy of the world" he's clearly talking about being the envy of other businesses, for having a program that generates such high profits while providing such poor value to customers.

The article, and this comment in particular, really warrants a separate deep dive by AFF, assisted by industry experts. Perhaps something for an AFF on Air episode?

That deep dive being: Why does QFF remain so popular/profitable despite the terrible value it offers to customers?

More specifically, I'd love to hear Matt & the loyalty expert's thoughts on:

1. Is it due to Australia's poor competitive landscape for loyalty programs? Customers have been scared off Velocity due to its bankruptcy. Overseas airlines are simply unattractive due to the poor earning possibilities. And why is that the case? Why doesn't SQ or EK make an aggressive push into the points earning space in Australia?
2. Is it due to customer perception of Qantas not matching the new reality? Customers are holding on to pre-COVID conceptions of the service Qantas offers and the reward seats that are available.
3. Is it due to a lack of innovation on the part of the most logical competitors? For me, the biggest threat to Qantas is not Velocity, but Woolworths and Coles. I would have thought if they wanted to go far more aggressively into the loyalty space, they could take a much larger slice of the market share from Qantas through co-branded credit cards, co-branded holidays, co-branded dog treats, etc under the label 'Rewards You Can Actually Use'. They already do some of this, but the scope for expansion seems significant. I think it would be a big hit with people burned by Qantas and looking for a simpler reward scheme. Obviously WW tried to sever ties with Qantas a few years ago and was hurt by that attempt, but I wonder if it would suffer the same fate today ...

 

[stroudie]

What can we do with our modest 400,000 points. Can't redeem, don't want to waste on Qantas shop purchases. Are they transferrable to another Oneworld partner programme ? (or to KrisFlyer for example)

 

[snoophound]

Never seen a CEO that is so disconnected from the reality of his companies customer service.
Either that just in denial.

 

[stopthecap]

I have to be (mathematically) one of the highest churners of cards out there cycling through (ANZ, NAB, Westpac, CITI, Amex... basically all except CBA which i hold long term) netting me 400-500k points a year.

I am completely unable to find any business class seats anywhere over the next year of my choice and even economy seats are now on existent to my choice of destination (BKK) for the rest of 2022. It is now getting to the stage where the cost of churning cards are costing me more than the benefits i receive

It is beyond me why economy rewards are restricted on any flight, I refuse to buy priced tickets when i put so much effort into playing the points game and expect to use them.

If someone from QANTAS frequents these, shame on you.

 

[downgraded]

The article, and this comment in particular, really warrants a separate deep dive by AFF, assisted by industry experts. Perhaps something for an AFF on Air episode?

That deep dive being: Why does QFF remain so popular/profitable despite the terrible value it offers to customers?

More specifically, I'd love to hear Matt & the loyalty expert's thoughts on:

1. Is it due to Australia's poor competitive landscape for loyalty programs? Customers have been scared off Velocity due to its bankruptcy. Overseas airlines are simply unattractive due to the poor earning possibilities. And why is that the case? Why doesn't SQ or EK make an aggressive push into the points earning space in Australia?
2. Is it due to customer perception of Qantas not matching the new reality? Customers are holding on to pre-COVID conceptions of the service Qantas offers and the reward seats that are available.
3. Is it due to a lack of innovation on the part of the most logical competitors? For me, the biggest threat to Qantas is not Velocity, but Woolworths and Coles. I would have thought if they wanted to go far more aggressively into the loyalty space, they could take a much larger slice of the market share from Qantas through co-branded credit cards, co-branded holidays, co-branded dog treats, etc under the label 'Rewards You Can Actually Use'. They already do some of this, but the scope for expansion seems significant. I think it would be a big hit with people burned by Qantas and looking for a simpler reward scheme. Obviously WW tried to sever ties with Qantas a few years ago and was hurt by that attempt, but I wonder if it would suffer the same fate today ...

Perhaps an article on the alternatives - flybuy v SQ vs CC points for later transfer, benefits and pitfalls etc.?
I've been a QF sticker for many years but a decade of being a WP has ended and a historically fruitful use of QFF points (J and F redemptions are the only fruitful use) is clearly coming crashing to a halt, it's time to better understand the alteratives.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The article, and this comment in particular, really warrants a separate deep dive by AFF, assisted by industry experts. Perhaps something for an AFF on Air episode?

That deep dive being: Why does QFF remain so popular/profitable despite the terrible value it offers to customers?

More specifically, I'd love to hear Matt & the loyalty expert's thoughts on:

1. Is it due to Australia's poor competitive landscape for loyalty programs? Customers have been scared off Velocity due to its bankruptcy. Overseas airlines are simply unattractive due to the poor earning possibilities. And why is that the case? Why doesn't SQ or EK make an aggressive push into the points earning space in Australia?
2. Is it due to customer perception of Qantas not matching the new reality? Customers are holding on to pre-COVID conceptions of the service Qantas offers and the reward seats that are available.
3. Is it due to a lack of innovation on the part of the most logical competitors? For me, the biggest threat to Qantas is not Velocity, but Woolworths and Coles. I would have thought if they wanted to go far more aggressively into the loyalty space, they could take a much larger slice of the market share from Qantas through co-branded credit cards, co-branded holidays, co-branded dog treats, etc under the label 'Rewards You Can Actually Use'. They already do some of this, but the scope for expansion seems significant. I think it would be a big hit with people burned by Qantas and looking for a simpler reward scheme. Obviously WW tried to sever ties with Qantas a few years ago and was hurt by that attempt, but I wonder if it would suffer the same fate today ...

You can do all of ‘3’ now, via the qantas store and the many diversified offerings the QFFP offers. The issue is that the assign their points a notional value of just .7 of a cent each. So anything you claim is already going to be at a ~30% loss to you as the consumer. Take QF’s ‘anyseat’ awards… revenue fares converted into points. You can use your points on just about any seat, in any class, on any flight… but it costs you an arm and a leg to do so. Same for toasters and anything else. It’s the way QFFF makes money… they sell points to banks and credit cards and anyone else for 1c, but when it comes to redeem them they only have to pay out .7 cents. Big profit already, and very little customer service costs to support that.

Qantas FF is so popular in part because of business travel. Gold status with QF’s extensive lounge network is appealing. The ability to take the whole family into the QF F lounge before your economy class flight on jetstar to fiji or bali is appealing. The ability to take your whole family into the QF F lounge before skiing in canada on economy seats you have had released to you as a platinum is also appealing.

Much of the above is the so-called ‘golden handcuffs’… and QF is very successful in managing that. Double status credits means anyone who would normally get silver is now gold, with worldwide lounge access. That locks you in down the track.

I’ve mentioned several times before that in paper QF seems to defy all the rules of competition. Pre covid passenger would pay more for a QF single-daily flight with angled skybeds or droopy skybed2s rather than take anyone of Cathay’s or Singapore’s four or five-times daily flights with guaranteed flat beds. The golden handcuffs are the only reason I can think of as the driver.

 

[Scarlett]

All the points in the article are well made but this thread really could have stopped at post 2 by @Jean Prouvaire. That’s the answer.

Let’s be realistic: an AFF article to our limited audience will change nothing, but this thread will draw the usual woe is me; I got shafted by QF stories, and QF execs will go on singing the praises of their money making loyalty scheme. Let’s check back in 5 years time and see if what’s happening now really does affect QFF or not because that’s the timeline you need.

 

[Guvner]

All the points in the article are well made but this thread really could have stopped at post 2 by @Jean Prouvaire. That’s the answer.

Let’s be realistic: an AFF article to our limited audience will change nothing, but this thread will draw the usual woe is me; I got shafted by QF stories, and QF execs will go on singing the praises of their money making loyalty scheme. Let’s check back in 5 years time and see if what’s happening now really does affect QFF or not because that’s the timeline you need.

Or you could have read the title of the thread and chosen not to read on. You do understand this is a community forum where everyday people can express their opinions (positive, negative or otherwise) and not be censored by compromised media companies who seek to control their sponsored narratives?

 

[wombatpatties]

Undercover Boss, that should really bring home the realities we all have to deal with!
but his accent would be a dead give-away for a start!
He really needs a kick up the proverbial, and stop living in his rose-coloured glasses.

 

[BudgetFly]

What can we do with our modest 400,000 points. Can't redeem, don't want to waste on Qantas shop purchases. Are they transferrable to another Oneworld partner programme ? (or to KrisFlyer for example)

Unfortunately not Transferrable to another airline. I wonder if Qantas have ever given that consideration?

 

[aikman]

With regards to reward seat availability to Europe, perhaps Krisflyer has more availability than Qantas because it is difficult to earn Krisflyer points in Australia at a reasonable rate and even after you have earned them you lose them after 3 years!

Do we really want Qantas to copy that model?