27th February Big Qantas announcement

[markis10]

Well who really knows? JNG, CGK maybe? I doubt they would can PVG & NRT and at times they put supplementary services onto MNL - which suggests there is money to be made.

PVG is on the block I suspect

[TABLE="width: 1034"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"]TABLE 3 AIRLINE PASSENGER CAPACITY AND UTILISATION TO AND FROM AUSTRALIA BY OPERATOR: November 2013[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Inbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Outbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Service to/from[/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]Chile[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 982[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 732[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]84.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 433[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 732[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]93.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 38[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6 226[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 865[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 39[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 192[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 910[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 93[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 24 723[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 737[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 93[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 25 211[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 753[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 16[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 045[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 455[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 185[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 455[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 9 717[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 11 052[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]87.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 9 875[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 11 053[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]89.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 717[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 260[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 881[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 258[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]88.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 454[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 54 374[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 71 858[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]75.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 454[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 59 109[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 72 071[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 51[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 325[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 774[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]61.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 171[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 700[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 338[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 5 337[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]81.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 560[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 5 347[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]85.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 149[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 35 475[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 45 069[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 149[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 043[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 45 088[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]66.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 481[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 936[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 640[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 935[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]69.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 106[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 612[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 436[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 612[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]86.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 20 674[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29 031[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18 444[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29 030[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 179[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 49 485[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 59 326[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 178[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 49 281[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 62 665[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Kefci2000]

The question would be are any routes profitable? From Melbourne (excluding NZ) we have 4 routes - DXB/LHR, LAX, SIN, HKG. I would hate to see Melbourne go the same way as Adelaide and Perth and have none or 1 international route and have to backtrack to Sydney but i fear this will happen.
I am particulary worried about the QF9/10 route as i use this 2/3 times a year and without this service i would change to another airline. No question about it.

For me it would be more about loosing the ability to arrive in at 5.30am, shower and head straight to meetings, other wise it wastes a valuable day for meetings

But agree loosing direct flights to/from MEL would be poor, even if they did meet a plane at DXB

 

[Isochronous]

PVG would be a dumb one to can - the China Eastern codeshares to cities beyond Shanghai should provide feed. How can they not fly to China at all?

 

[markis10]

PVG would be a dumb one to can - the China Eastern codeshares to cities beyond Shanghai should provide feed. How can they not fly to China at all?

But if their not getting the loads and freight is significantly down, why continue?

 

[eastwest101]

Well QF have given up on India, and can barely take Indonesia seriously, so based on those decisions there is no reason why it can't also ignore the largest and one of the fastest growing economies in the world and our largest trading partner.

You would expect that QFi can't compete with any mainland Chinese carriers based on current costs alone - so they may just look to going code share with one or a couple of the Chinese carriers. But that is based on the theory that people shop purely on price point alone which is not always necessarily the case.

 

[hutch]

PVG is on the block I suspect

[TABLE="width: 1034"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"]TABLE 3 AIRLINE PASSENGER CAPACITY AND UTILISATION TO AND FROM AUSTRALIA BY OPERATOR: November 2013[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Inbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Outbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Service to/from[/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]Chile[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 982[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 732[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]84.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 433[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 732[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]93.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 38[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6 226[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 865[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 39[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 192[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 910[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 93[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 24 723[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 737[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 93[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 25 211[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 753[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 16[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 045[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 455[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 185[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 455[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 9 717[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 11 052[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]87.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 9 875[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 11 053[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]89.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 717[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 260[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 881[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 258[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]88.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 454[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 54 374[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 71 858[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]75.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 454[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 59 109[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 72 071[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 51[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 325[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 774[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]61.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 2 171[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 700[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 338[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 5 337[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]81.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4 560[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 5 347[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]85.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 149[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 35 475[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 45 069[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 149[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30 043[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 45 088[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]66.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 481[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 936[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 640[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 935[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]69.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 106[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 612[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 436[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 8 612[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]86.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 20 674[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29 031[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 18 444[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 29 030[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 179[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 49 485[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 59 326[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 178[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 49 281[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 62 665[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

In fairness, you are showing stats for one month... that is not a complete picture. Having said that, they stats show a 80% load on the outbound... and an average overall of 75%. That is reasonable and above other routes.

A good review of QFi in Asia has been released by CAPA today. It indicates that PVG is down on 2012, but still up on 2011.

 

[markis10]

In fairness, you are showing stats for one month... that is not a complete picture. Having said that, they stats show a 80% load on the outbound... and an average overall of 75%. That is reasonable and above other routes.

A good review of QFi in Asia has been released by CAPA today. It indicates that PVG is down on 2012, but still up on 2011.

Yes it is just a month, but its the latest month available and the trend has been decreasing over the last 6 months. Importantly I alluded to Cargo being bad, while load factors are OK, its not where they make money, they need to fill the belly, that will probably be the deciding factor for PVG going while LHR stays

[TABLE="width: 895"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]TABLE 2 SCHEDULED OPERATOR MARKET SHARES AND GROWTH: November [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Total Passengers[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Total Freight (tonnes)[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](%) of[/TD]
[TD](%)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](%) of[/TD]
[TD](%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operators[/TD]
[TD]Country to/from[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]Change[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]Change[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]Chile[/TD]
[TD] 7 525[/TD]
[TD] 8 300[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]10.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 19.0[/TD]
[TD] 12.8[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]-32.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD] 11 984[/TD]
[TD] 12 457[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]3.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 1 303.1[/TD]
[TD] 1 145.2[/TD]
[TD]1.4[/TD]
[TD]-12.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD] 5 358[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 104.2[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD] 49 852[/TD]
[TD] 48 506[/TD]
[TD]1.9[/TD]
[TD]-2.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 195.8[/TD]
[TD] 2 218.8[/TD]
[TD]2.8[/TD]
[TD]1.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD] 6 349[/TD]
[TD] 5 484[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-13.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 212.5[/TD]
[TD] 232.3[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]9.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD] 18 704[/TD]
[TD] 19 165[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]2.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 320.4[/TD]
[TD] 190.7[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-40.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Kazakhstan[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 183.0[/TD]
[TD] 207.8[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Macau[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 16.5[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD] 4 015[/TD]
[TD] 4 645[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]15.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 17.8[/TD]
[TD] 31.2[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]74.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 95 176[/TD]
[TD] 97 155[/TD]
[TD]3.8[/TD]
[TD]2.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 1 935.1[/TD]
[TD] 1 839.0[/TD]
[TD]2.3[/TD]
[TD]-5.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD] 4 522[/TD]
[TD] 4 496[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-0.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD] 7 103[/TD]
[TD] 7 952[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]12.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 140.2[/TD]
[TD] 130.2[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-7.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD] 72 943[/TD]
[TD] 62 081[/TD]
[TD]2.4[/TD]
[TD]-14.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 567.4[/TD]
[TD] 2 737.7[/TD]
[TD]3.5[/TD]
[TD]6.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD] 14 554[/TD]
[TD] 14 651[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 219.8[/TD]
[TD] 199.8[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]-9.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD] 11 110[/TD]
[TD] 12 367[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]11.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 295.4[/TD]
[TD] 284.6[/TD]
[TD]0.4[/TD]
[TD]-3.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD] 20 082[/TD]
[TD] 18 708[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[TD]-6.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 477.3[/TD]
[TD] 613.3[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]28.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]United Arab Emirates[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 16 561[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 388.6[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD] 94 380[/TD]
[TD] 95 790[/TD]
[TD]3.8[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 357.7[/TD]
[TD] 2 614.5[/TD]
[TD]3.3[/TD]
[TD]10.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Kefci2000]

A lot of Pax to USA! More than I would have thought (ie more balance with UK/DXB)

 

[hutch]

Yes it is just a month, but its the latest month available and the trend has been decreasing over the last 6 months. Importantly I alluded to Cargo being bad, while load factors are OK, its not where they make money, they need to fill the belly, that will probably be the deciding factor for PVG going while LHR stays

[TABLE="width: 895"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]TABLE 2 SCHEDULED OPERATOR MARKET SHARES AND GROWTH: November[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Total Passengers[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Total Freight (tonnes)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](%) of[/TD]
[TD](%)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](%) of[/TD]
[TD](%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operators[/TD]
[TD]Country to/from[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]Change[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD]Change[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]Chile[/TD]
[TD] 7 525[/TD]
[TD] 8 300[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]10.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 19.0[/TD]
[TD] 12.8[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]-32.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD] 11 984[/TD]
[TD] 12 457[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]3.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 1 303.1[/TD]
[TD] 1 145.2[/TD]
[TD]1.4[/TD]
[TD]-12.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD] 5 358[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 104.2[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD] 49 852[/TD]
[TD] 48 506[/TD]
[TD]1.9[/TD]
[TD]-2.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 195.8[/TD]
[TD] 2 218.8[/TD]
[TD]2.8[/TD]
[TD]1.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD] 6 349[/TD]
[TD] 5 484[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-13.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 212.5[/TD]
[TD] 232.3[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]9.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD] 18 704[/TD]
[TD] 19 165[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]2.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 320.4[/TD]
[TD] 190.7[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-40.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Kazakhstan[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 183.0[/TD]
[TD] 207.8[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Macau[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 16.5[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]-100.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD] 4 015[/TD]
[TD] 4 645[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]15.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 17.8[/TD]
[TD] 31.2[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]74.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 95 176[/TD]
[TD] 97 155[/TD]
[TD]3.8[/TD]
[TD]2.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 1 935.1[/TD]
[TD] 1 839.0[/TD]
[TD]2.3[/TD]
[TD]-5.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD] 4 522[/TD]
[TD] 4 496[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-0.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD] 7 103[/TD]
[TD] 7 952[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]12.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 140.2[/TD]
[TD] 130.2[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]-7.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD] 72 943[/TD]
[TD] 62 081[/TD]
[TD]2.4[/TD]
[TD]-14.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 567.4[/TD]
[TD] 2 737.7[/TD]
[TD]3.5[/TD]
[TD]6.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD] 14 554[/TD]
[TD] 14 651[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 219.8[/TD]
[TD] 199.8[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]-9.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD] 11 110[/TD]
[TD] 12 367[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]11.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 295.4[/TD]
[TD] 284.6[/TD]
[TD]0.4[/TD]
[TD]-3.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD] 20 082[/TD]
[TD] 18 708[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[TD]-6.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 477.3[/TD]
[TD] 613.3[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]28.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]United Arab Emirates[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 16 561[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 388.6[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD] 94 380[/TD]
[TD] 95 790[/TD]
[TD]3.8[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 357.7[/TD]
[TD] 2 614.5[/TD]
[TD]3.3[/TD]
[TD]10.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

True, but even with your figures, PVG may have dropped % in cargo over the year, but the actual amount of Cargo is high.

Additionally, lets compare HKG & PVG. HKG has about double the cargo in tonnes in comparison with PVG, but HKG has 3 times the flights.

In any case, we are both making (educated) guesses.

 

[markis10]

True, but even with your figures, PVG may have dropped % in cargo over the year, but the actual amount of Cargo is high.

Additionally, lets compare HKG & PVG. HKG has about double the cargo in tonnes in comparison with PVG, but HKG has 3 times the flights.

In any case, we are both making (educated) guesses.

We are making educated guesses, however PVG has a dedicated 747 freight run a week, HKG has one 767

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

What Surprised me the most with those Stats is the UK....... quite low.

Some changes ahead for DXB > LHR i suspect.

 

[markis10]

What Surprised me the most with those Stats is the UK....... quite low.

Some changes ahead i for DXB > LHR i suspect.

There have been talk that QF9 is struggling and the latest figures seem to suggest that could well be the case, when I looked at figures a few months ago they seemed good, but on reflection that is taking into account booking from people who thought they were going via SIN etc and were changed. Now that we are moving away form that into new booking territory, it would appear they have issues, or maybe its seasonal.

 

[amaroo]

FT has been (for many months) awash with rumour that QF9/10 is cactus.

 

[markis10]

Well I am 1 out of 4 so far:

A serious and uniformed guess:

More route rationalisation CGK/MNL and noumea to go
Integration of JQ into the EK lovenest
Ordering four 777s for DFW etc
Cancellation of the remaining A380s

May as well add to it, QF DOM and INT split into separate companies including AOCs, with the new domestic makeup:



Nothing like a union to add fuel to the fire: http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/534067-qantas-split-into-two-airlines.html

 

[amaroo]

FT has been (for many months) awash with rumour that QF9/10 is cactus.

A post from 10th June 2013......the article is pretty damning!

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....s-tie-up-partnership-39712-55.html#post838707

 

[Awesom Andy]

FT has been (for many months) awash with rumour that QF9/10 is cactus.

At least everyone will have extra SCs taking that route.

 

[hutch]

We are making educated guesses, however PVG has a dedicated 747 freight run a week, HKG has one 767

Interesting... I hope I am right though!

 

[hutch]

Hopefully, it just means terminating QF9 at DXB and not the end of DXB-LHR altogether (Would the A380 sit in DXB waiting for QF2 to arrive or would in turn around?). I assume QF will sell the LHR slot to EK.
I'm not looking forward to the 27th, but at the same time I can't wait!

 

[Robbi]

At least everyone will have extra SCs taking that route.

Only if there is a QF codeshare or EK starts giving QF SC's.

This is not meant as a flame but judging by all the routes we think are unprofitable they might as well sell all QF routes to EK and pull the pin. In my mind flying a codeshare is not the same as flying metal and is rather pointless if you are supporting a carrier or chasing FF points because in my mind I am not flying QANTAS if I am on an EK aircraft from MEL-LHR as QF codeshare.

I might as well set up RobbiAir and codeshare with everyone and have no aircraft or routes. (Yes I am sure there is something wrong with my fiendish plan but it's late )

 

[Brettmcg]

Word from the galley is that JNB is definitely gone, but only after the code share is finished. Apparently there are also strong rumours about 9/10 being returned to a SIN tech stop (I can't see it happening, but just passing on what I've heard!) - potentially SIN and DXB like the EK flight?

The other suggestion from a QCCA crew member was to "severely cut back 747 flying to enable retrenchments of a bunch of the QAL crew whilst keeping 380 on QCCA and dual endorsing them on the 330 to keep Asian routes then start from scratch!"

As I said, it's just galley gossip, but I thought I'd share it nevertheless.