29 Jan: 1 night at ibis budget Singapore Selegie to give away

[muehli3]

We've got 1 night booked at the ibis budget Singapore Selegie from 29 Jan to 30 Jan in a Superior Double Room, 1 Double Bed.

Our Scoot flights got changed and the hotel is non-refundable, so maybe someone happens to be in Singapore on that day and could use the room.

It was booked via Qantas Hotel and while it's non-refundable, they offered me to change the name, so I could give it away for free unless Scoot requires a cancellation confirmation.

 

[AIRwin]

I would have been interested if it's over the Australia Day long weekend

 

[kangarooflyer88]

We've got 1 night booked at the ibis budget Singapore Selegie from 29 Jan to 30 Jan in a Superior Double Room, 1 Double Bed.

Our Scoot flights got changed and the hotel is non-refundable, so maybe someone happens to be in Singapore on that day and needs the room for a good price?

It was booked via Qantas Hotel and while it's non-refundable, they offered me to change the name.

PS: If this is the wrong forum or not allowed, please move/delete my post.

Who changed the departure date of the flight, you or Scoot? If it was the airline, they are obligated to compensate you for the hotel night you paid for but couldn't use. This is because you are on an international flight and international flights are governed by the Australian law, Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment (1999 Montreal Convention and Other Measures) Act 2008. Inside of the law, there is a specific provision (Article 19) which states that should an airline cause a disruption like this they are on liable for up to $7,000 USD per passenger for damages. Those damages could include things like new flights you had to buy, prepaid hotels you could no longer use and even lost wages, to name but a few.

Another point I should mention, did you try getting them to book you onto a flight departing the day you were originally scheduled to fly out? In theory you should be able to force them to do that (again under the Montreal Convention) as they have an obligation to mitigate damages they cause. This could mean putting you on a Qantas or Singapore Airlines flight, for instance.

 

[muehli3]

Who changed the departure date of the flight, you or Scoot? If it was the airline, they are obligated to compensate you for the hotel night you paid for but couldn't use. This is because you are on an international flight and international flights are governed by the Australian law, Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment (1999 Montreal Convention and Other Measures) Act 2008. Inside of the law, there is a specific provision (Article 19) which states that should an airline cause a disruption like this they are on liable for up to $7,000 USD per passenger for damages. Those damages could include things like new flights you had to buy, prepaid hotels you could no longer use and even lost wages, to name but a few.

Another point I should mention, did you try getting them to book you onto a flight departing the day you were originally scheduled to fly out? In theory you should be able to force them to do that (again under the Montreal Convention) as they have an obligation to mitigate damages they cause. This could mean putting you on a Qantas or Singapore Airlines flight, for instance.

Scoot changed it and we haven't accepted yet.

Huge thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of those laws and that I have some leverage, at least to try it. I don't mind flying a day later but it involves additional costs both in Australia and Singapore, so if they'd pay it, I wouldn't mind, neither would I to fly on the same day with another airline.

 

[muehli3]

Lots of back and forth with them, after mostly standard replies, their latest statement is:

We would like to share that, as per Scoot [URL='https://cdn.flyscoot.com/prod/docs/default-source/doc-coc/scoot_conditions_of_carriage_final.pdf?sfvrsn=e3ab7a9f_4']Conditions of Carriage[/URL] 9.1–SCHEDULE TIMES, to which you agreed when you booked your flight with Scoot, Scoot is not responsible for any costs or expenses you incur as a result of a controllable delay or cancellation. We strongly recommend that you carry comprehensive travel insurance for all your travels.

I haven't expecting anything other than giving them the right to do whatever they want. Do you know if/how this is in conflict with Australian Law? I remember that airlines just giving vouchers is overruled by Australian law that they also need to refund the money.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Lots of back and forth with them, after mostly standard replies, their latest statement is:

We would like to share that, as per Scoot [URL='https://cdn.flyscoot.com/prod/docs/default-source/doc-coc/scoot_conditions_of_carriage_final.pdf?sfvrsn=e3ab7a9f_4']Conditions of Carriage[/URL] 9.1–SCHEDULE TIMES, to which you agreed when you booked your flight with Scoot, Scoot is not responsible for any costs or expenses you incur as a result of a controllable delay or cancellation. We strongly recommend that you carry comprehensive travel insurance for all your travels.

I haven't expecting anything other than giving them the right to do whatever they want. Do you know if/how this is in conflict with Australian Law? I remember that airlines just giving vouchers is overruled by Australian law that they also need to refund the money.

This is the difficulty with the Montreal Convention.

Article 19 talks about delay. It does not talk about cancellation. Courts in some jurisdictions have equated ‘cancellation’ with ‘delay’. But I don’t know if either Australia or Singapore has also applied such a definition.

If your flight has been changed by Scoot, this far in advance, I’m not sure it qualifies as a delay, and I’m not sure if qualifies as a cancellation for the purposes of Article 19, at least in Australia or Singapore.

As a general primciple however, Scoot is wrong to say that delays or cancellations are not subject to MC99, they clearly will be. However, the bar is fairly low for airlines to escape liability… they just have to have taken reasonable measures to mitigate the delay.

So, you could re-write to Scoot and ask for reimbursement of your hotel under the Montreal Convention, Article 19.

But if you hit a brick wall, I’mmnot sure who you turn to without having to engage a lawyer. Which is probably more than the cost of your night at the Ibis.

 

[Gold Member]

This is the difficulty with the Montreal Convention.

Article 19 talks about delay. It does not talk about cancellation. Courts in some jurisdictions have equated ‘cancellation’ with ‘delay’. But I don’t know if either Australia or Singapore has also applied such a definition.

If your flight has been changed by Scoot, this far in advance, I’m not sure it qualifies as a delay, and I’m not sure if qualifies as a cancellation for the purposes of Article 19, at least in Australia or Singapore.

As a general primciple however, Scoot is wrong to say that delays or cancellations are not subject to MC99, they clearly will be. However, the bar is fairly low for airlines to escape liability… they just have to have taken reasonable measures to mitigate the delay.

So, you could re-write to Scoot and ask for reimbursement of your hotel under the Montreal Convention, Article 19.

But if you hit a brick wall, I’mmnot sure who you turn to without having to engage a lawyer. Which is probably more than the cost of your night at the Ibis.

And this is exactly what the Airlines will hope you do - gasp at the thought and effort of engaging legal representation, pursuing a lengthy and frustrating battle that you reluctantly accept that you will not win. You let it slide and they are off the hook.

A few weeks later a Double Status Credit promotion pops up or a Sale Event is held and all is forgiven. You hand over more of your hard earned to the same Airline that screwed you over, hoping for a better experience. Customer loyalty never ceases to amaze me.

FWIW, this behaviour by the Airlines is measurable and accounted for in their business models to drive more profits.