55 minute layover at HEL

[Archipelago]

Wow. So no sign of a 2 hour line at immigration?

No, and I arrived at a fairly busy time where all the Asia flights land ahead of the intra-Europe departures.
From memory only 4-5 pax ahead of me in passport control lines

Helsinki struck me as being very efficient

 

[AIRwin]

Did she ever misconnect?

No but they have to run for it every time

 

[Mattg]

This connection time is totally fine for HEL, as long as the inbound flight from Paris is more or less on-time.

Finnair's on-time performance is generally good, but you never really know in advance whether any specific flight will be punctual. There are many things that could happen which are outside the airline's control. FWIW, this specific CDG-HEL flight often arrives around half an hour late in Helsinki.

I would personally book the earlier flight out of Paris to give more leeway in case the inbound flight is delayed, and in order to enjoy a bit of lounge time in Helsinki (that may or may not be a consideration for you). But in most cases the shorter connection would be OK.

 

[henrus]

About 10 years ago now I once had a negative 25 minute connection in Helsinki.

Flight delays due to "catering loading issues" meant upon check in the manager in Milan turned his screen around and show the rather amusing -25 mins connection on the screen. His advice was to wait until Helsinki and let them sort it out. I was traveling with 3 others and there was also one other person making the MXP-HEL-SIN connection.

The MXP-HEL flight ended up being another 20 minutes late due to problems with drunks in Milan but the Milan ground staff made sure us 5 were sitting in the front row. Upon descent into Helsinki the IFE shows connecting gates (still does I flew Finnair last month) and amusingly our SIN flight was the last flight of the day (only one listed) with a gate number and a status of "See Ground Staff".

Upon door opening in Helsinki their told us to just get a move on but not to run and obviously no queues to get stamped out of schengen. We boarded the flight with everyone else who'd been sitting boarded waiting over 30 mins for us 5 to join and push back happened almost instantly. Upon arrival in Singapore 3/4 suitcases made the connection and Finnair knew the other one didn't as they had someone waiting at the Changi luggage claim with a 75 euro prepaid card, a form to fill out our hotel address and details of the bags new route ended up going HEL-BKK-SIN and only arriving about 20 hours behind us.

Helsinki airport is just as efficent now as it was back then, Australian passport holders can use the automated gates to exit schengen (just make sure to get a stamp on the way out): Automated Border Control | Finavia

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I have flown Frankfurt to Sydney via Helsinki and Singapore on FinnAir back in October. As others have pointed out going from the Schengen to the non-Schengen area can be quite fast as all you are looking at is border control (there are no security checks since you already had them in Paris). The terminal is also compact, so not a whole lot of walking down unmarked corridors as is the case at Frankfurt or Paris (I am told).

My question for you is: what are you looking for out of this? A stress free experience or money? I say this with all due respect because it's an important to decision to make when booking this trips departing Europe. If you keep your connections tight you increase the odds of misconnecting, and when you do, you'll be eligible for EU261 compensation of €600 per passenger supposing you arrive at your final destination of Sydney more than 4 hours after scheduled departure. For a family of four travelling that is one hell of a deal. On the other hand, if you do misconnect, yes they'll have to rebook you and you'll have to work with them to find alternate flights and potentially hotels.

The other way around this is to take a longer connection time at Helsinki, that's fine but there's no guarantee you won't be impacted. Remember the more connections you add to a trip the more chances there are of things going wrong. Airlines can and do cancel flights, and certainly Qantas does that a fair share too. Which may be want you wanted in the first place. €2400 for a family of four is nothing to sneeze at! The other point to remember is EU261 travels with you for the entirety of the trip. So if say Qantas delays your flight from Singapore to Sydney they'll be on the hook for EU261 compensation despite the fact that the impacted flight did not depart from or arrive in an EU city. I know this from experience having flown Frankfurt to Sydney via Helsinki and Singapore back in October. Everything was fine until I got to Singapore and surprise, surprise Qantas delayed my flight by 12 hours. I didn't wait around or talk to anyone. Booked the Mercure Bugis had a good quality rest that night and then first thing in the morning came back to the airport to board my flight. Once I landed in Sydney, I filed the claim for EU261 with Qantas and got my compensation and hotel reimbursement, no questions asked.

-RooFlyer88

 

[offshore171]

My question for you is: what are you looking for out of this? A stress free experience or money? I say this with all due respect because it's an important to decision to make when booking this trips departing Europe. If you keep your connections tight you increase the odds of misconnecting, and when you do, you'll be eligible for EU261 compensation of €600 per passenger supposing you arrive at your final destination of

Ok good question. I am absolutely not trying to set up a misconnect to shakedown the airline for EU261 compo.

Essentially this particular Finnair offering is a very well priced option to get 4pax from CDG to SYD in PE. It's just over half the price of what QF is asking. Other than that one tight layover at HEL, it looks great.

The finnair site returns a few other alternatives with longer layovers, but for whatever reason these are much more expensive.

Another option might be to just book the HEL-SYD fare, and make a positioning flight from CDG to HEL the day before. I can get this on points.

 

[docjames]

Have done that exact connection (55min) - it’s fine. Departing is easy. Even had time to pop into the lounge. HEL non-schengen area isn’t especially busy at that time.

I’ve had a long connection in HEL in the past and they held the SIN flight for the last few stragglers that were connecting in.

I’d 100% book it if the price is right.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Ok good question. I am absolutely not trying to set up a misconnect to shakedown the airline for EU261 compo.

There is no such thing as "shakedown" when it comes to EU261. The airline offered to sell you an itinerary. Maybe the itinerary works out, you arrive on time and no compensation is owed, maybe you are stuck with a delay and compensation is owed. Having more connection time reduces the risk of arriving at your final destination later but does not eliminate it. For instance, I've had 4 hours domestic connections blown by airlines before.

I suppose the bigger issue here is you shouldn't be too tied down to a particular flight. The fact of the matter is airlines can and do change flight schedules and cancel flights all the time, down gauge aircraft such that the aircraft you are on no longer has Premium Economy (or has Premium Economy but with fewer seats meaning some people will have to be bumped down to Premium Economy). So even if you've got a specific set of flights booked for an upcoming trip, the odds that will be what ends up happening are more like 50/50 from my experience, particularly if you are booking many months out. For instance, one member flying a similar itinerary as yours in Premium Economy discovered shortly after booking that the 787 aircraft slated to operate their Singapore to Melbourne flight was moved to an A330 which has no premium economy. And here's the thing, when an airline changes its schedule or cancels a flight, guess what? You can force the airline to put you on other flights operated by them for free!

So if I was you (and by the way I am not you) I would take the cheapest option, and see how it plays it. Maybe the airline makes a schedule change in the interim and you get to choose those flights you wanted (if money were no option). Maybe they don't and you get the privilege of misconnecting at Singapore with FinnAir having to provide EU261 compensation. Or maybe the whole itinerary goes off without a hitch!

-RooFlyer88

 

[flyingsal]

Did the same route in December with a 40 min change. I was concerned so checked gate locations on the airport map before I flew.
The flight from Paris was delayed by 10 mins but they made up time. Only 2 guys checking passports.
No issues at all.
Probably the least stressful airport experience I've ever had.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Probably the least stressful airport experience I've ever had.

Correct. And to be more specific here, there are no separate terminals where you need to catch a train (i.e. LHR or FRA). You literally get off your flight, follow the signs for non-schengen, clear emmigration and walk to your gate. Maybe 10 or 15 minutes tops for the connection. And emmigration is quick because there isn't much to do there. All they need to do is check to see when you stamped in, and provided you didn't overstay your "visa" they'll stamp you out (provided you cannot use the automated gates).

And chances are, even if you were delayed FinnAir would hold the plane for you. Remember, a one or two hour delay isn't a big deal, especially if they got many connecting passengers coming in from delayed flights because they can make up time in the air. Remember, this is a 12.5 hour flight you've got here, so plenty of opportunities to make up time.

-RooFlyer88

 

[offshore171]

Thanks all. Just another update. I've now managed to get a similar routing on points, except with an earlier Finnair flight out of CDG connecting to the same 2355 departure HEL to SIN.

One ticket through to SIN, but this one now provides a 5 hour layover in HEL, which I am much more comfortable with, given it's family travel.

These 4 reward seats weren't showing on QF yesterday and they popped up today. That's saved a bundle. Might spring for PE from SIN to SYD

 

[Seat0B]

Well that sounds great @offshore171. I love it when a plan comes together!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Thanks all. Just another update. I've now managed to get a similar routing on points, except with an earlier Finnair flight out of CDG connecting to the same 2355 departure HEL to SIN.

One ticket through to SIN, but this one now provides a 5 hour layover in HEL, which I am much more comfortable with, given it's family travel.

These 4 reward seats weren't showing on QF yesterday and they popped up today. That's saved a bundle. Might spring for PE from SIN to SYD

Whilst you certainly can book CDG > SIN and SIN > SYD as two separate tickets it is not ideal. For instance, if you arrive into SIN late there are no guarantees that QF will rebook you if you miss the connecting flight. After all, you've got two travel contracts: Paris to Singapore and Singapore to Sydney. I'm not sure how baggage works but that is also something to consider as you'll be under two different baggage policies (QF for SYD and AY for SIN) whereas if it was booked as one itinerary then AY baggage policy would apply for the whole trip. In terms of EU261 compensation well know you'll just be covered to Singapore as your trip departing Europe is for Singapore and not Sydney. That means if your Singapore to Sydney flight gets delayed you can't claim EU261 compensation on that and must instead rely on the Montreal Convention and the poorer Australian Consumer law.

 

[offshore171]

Whilst you certainly can book CDG > SIN and SIN > SYD as two separate tickets it is not ideal.

We're going to stay a night in SIN before the onward flight to Sydney, so we have a healthy contingency.

When you use points sometimes you have to compromise, especially long haul, and peak seasons.

In this case the award booking covering CDG through to SIN is saving us around $7K, so staying a night in SIN is well worth it.

I'm not super focussed on making EU261 claims to be honest!

 

[tdimdad]

Maybe 10 or 15 minutes tops for the connection.

25 mins of walking + passport control, if you need to walk from the farthest away Schengen gate to the far end of the non-Schengen side.
Though, in the late evening, the airport is very quiet so there's nothing to slow you down and you can power-walk it in 15 mins if you've got long legs.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I recently did HKG to CDG via HEL on AY with a 2hr transit.

It was fine, however I did arrive in HEL very early morning (stepped foot in the terminal at 5:20am for a 7:30am connecting flight).

By the time I got through immigration (a bit of a line) and security (no line), I had around 1hr in the Finnair lounge.

I personally wouldn't be comfortable with a 55min connection time, regardless if it was an early morning or later arrival.

These 4 reward seats weren't showing on QF yesterday and they popped up today.

It's annoying but also good at the same time - annoying in that it's not available at the time of booking, but then good that it does come up later (and then comes the task of then trying to change a rewards booking - but that's another story in itself!)

 

[muppet]

Helsinki airport is just as efficent now as it was back then, Australian passport holders can use the automated gates to exit schengen (just make sure to get a stamp on the way out): Automated Border Control | Finavia

How do you get a stamp from an automated gate?

 

[tdimdad]

How do you get a stamp from an automated gate?

If you need a stamp for some reason, you use a "manual" gate instead of an e-gate.

 

[henrus]

How do you get a stamp from an automated gate?

You go through the automated gates and as you come through them there is a counter (that almost looks like you have to go through a manned counter again) where someone stamps it.

There are quite a few European airports that have automated gates now open to non European passports. Some countries have two sets of gates (one for European passport holders this is straight out and another for all others that has the 2nd booth behind for stamping). Other countries have a booth behind and everyone just shows passport with Europeans flagged through and non European passports stamped.

 

[muppet]

You go through the automated gates and as you come through them there is a counter (that almost looks like you have to go through a manned counter again) where someone stamps it.

There are quite a few European airports that have automated gates now open to non European passports. Some countries have two sets of gates (one for European passport holders this is straight out and another for all others that has the 2nd booth behind for stamping). Other countries have a booth behind and everyone just shows passport with Europeans flagged through and non European passports stamped.

Thanks helpful!