A Complete, Updated List of Fifth-Freedom Routes

[AFF Editor]

It has been suggested by @RooFlyer that an up-to-date list of fifth-freedom routes would be a useful AFF resource.

So, we've put together a complete list which is available here:

Complete List of Fifth-Freedom Routes

This complete, updated list of fifth-freedom routes includes all international tag flights that can be booked as standalone journeys.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

The purpose of this thread is to discuss new and old fifth-freedom routes, and fifth-freedom flights in general.

Fifth-freedom routes change constantly, so there may be a few errors in our list from time to time. If you spot an error or are aware of a new fifth-freedom route to be added to the list, please feel free to post in this tread.

About fifth-freedom routes

Fifth freedom flights are international routes that neither start nor end in the operating airline's home country. They typically operate as a "tag flight" extension to a flight that originates in the airline's hub. For example, the Singapore-London leg of QF1 is a fifth-freedom flight.

Fifth-freedom flights are great for numerous reasons:
· They're usually cheap
· Excellent award availability
· They typically use wide-body long-haul aircraft
· An opportunity to sample airlines you would otherwise never fly
· Can be handy for RTW bookings when you want to fly somewhere other than an alliance hub airport

Read more about fifth-freedom flights here:

Fifth-Freedom Flights: A Great Way to Travel

Fifth-freedom flights can truly be a great way to travel. Fares aretypically well-priced and you'll often travel in greater comfort.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[RooFlyer]

· Can be handy for RTW bookings when you want to fly somewhere other than an alliance hub airport

That was the point that got me interested, when I read Mattg's 'Tips and tricks' piece on Fifth Freedoms

I'll have to see if fifth Freedom flights are regularly offered or not in, say, a XONEX schedule, but wouldn't it be great to find a one world carrier with a fifth freedom flight like CDG-FRA - would save a sector!

 

[Mattg]

Well as we know, Qantas' LAX-JFK sector is not a fifth-freedom flight because seats can only be sold in conjunction with a QF international flight to/from Australia. I was reading this morning that apparently Qantas has been fined for selling seats in conjunction with international codeshare flights on partner airlines: Qantas Is Being Fined For Illegally Selling Tickets On Their New York To Los Angeles Flight - One Mile at a Time

Does this mean you specifically have to fly Qantas from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX on the same ticket to be able use this flight? What about if you're flying a RTW ticket and fly (for example) SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK? Would you be allowed to book a seat on QF11?

 

[JohnM]

Well as we know, Qantas' LAX-JFK sector is not a fifth-freedom flight because seats can only be sold in conjunction with a QF international flight to/from Australia. I was reading this morning that apparently Qantas has been fined for selling seats in conjunction with international codeshare flights on partner airlines: Qantas Is Being Fined For Illegally Selling Tickets On Their New York To Los Angeles Flight - One Mile at a Time

Does this mean you specifically have to fly Qantas from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX on the same ticket to be able use this flight? What about if you're flying a RTW ticket and fly (for example) SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK? Would you be allowed to book a seat on QF11?

You could set up a dummy itinerary in the OW online planning & booking tool, go to 'select flights' and see if the QF11 LAX-JFK option appears.

 

[juddles]

Well as we know, Qantas' LAX-JFK sector is not a fifth-freedom flight because seats can only be sold in conjunction with a QF international flight to/from Australia. I was reading this morning that apparently Qantas has been fined for selling seats in conjunction with international codeshare flights on partner airlines: Qantas Is Being Fined For Illegally Selling Tickets On Their New York To Los Angeles Flight - One Mile at a Time

Does this mean you specifically have to fly Qantas from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX on the same ticket to be able use this flight? What about if you're flying a RTW ticket and fly (for example) SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK? Would you be allowed to book a seat on QF11?

It appears from the content of the OMAAT article that your scenario is specifically excluded. I think????

 

[Mattg]

It appears from the content of the OMAAT article that your scenario is specifically excluded. I think????

Well that was my take on it, but I've just checked and QF11/12 LAX-JFK is still being offered as part of a Oneworld Explorer itinerary when flying SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well as we know, Qantas' LAX-JFK sector is not a fifth-freedom flight because seats can only be sold in conjunction with a QF international flight to/from Australia. I was reading this morning that apparently Qantas has been fined for selling seats in conjunction with international codeshare flights on partner airlines: Qantas Is Being Fined For Illegally Selling Tickets On Their New York To Los Angeles Flight - One Mile at a Time

Does this mean you specifically have to fly Qantas from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX on the same ticket to be able use this flight? What about if you're flying a RTW ticket and fly (for example) SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK? Would you be allowed to book a seat on QF11?

The JFK tag flights should never be available except when connecting to or from a qantas flight (with or without stopover). Qf was arguing this included their code shares, which DOT has denied. So this really should only leave Qantas flights on qantas metal.

If QF is selling the tag flight in conjunction with other airlines there is a risk passengers could be denied boarding and reaccommodated on AA, even up to the point of arriving at the gate. Qf would risk the second half of the fine becoming payable if they allowed travel.

we saw it with cabotage through lifemiles where carriage was denied even though ticketed.

 

[Mattg]

The JFK tag flights should never be available except when connecting to or from a qantas flight (with or without stopover). Qf was arguing this included their code shares, which DOT has denied. So this really should only leave Qantas flights on qantas metal.

If QF is selling the tag flight in conjunction with other airlines there is a risk passengers could be denied boarding and reaccommodated on AA, even up to the point of arriving at the gate. Qf would risk the second half of the fine becoming payable if they allowed travel.

we saw it with cabotage through lifemiles where carriage was denied even though ticketed.

But you can still purchase a RTW ticket flying QF SYD-HKG, CX HKG-LAX, then QF LAX-JFK (and onwards to Europe etc.)

By the way, what was the Lifemiles Cabotage issue?

 

[sjk]

By the way, what was the Lifemiles Cabotage issue?

Here's a current example, albeit one that can actually be flown

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But you can still purchase a RTW ticket flying QF SYD-HKG, CX HKG-LAX, then QF LAX-JFK (and onwards to Europe etc.)

By the way, what was the Lifemiles Cabotage issue?

Even if you can still purchase the ticket, that doesn't mean you'll be allowed to fly it!

The Lifemiles cabotage issue was flights between GUM and the USA via TPE. This is a domestic route which was being offered by LM travelling EVA. Someone - ticketed - got denied boarding and subsequently filed a complaint with the DOT. The DOT ruled this violated cabotage rules.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For the wiki - Air China is now flying houston to panama with fifth freedom rights. COuld be a cood connector to an AA mileage run. Available in all three classes with good award availability too.

 

[serfty]

There is an Air Services Treaty agreement between the USA and Oz Governments

This lists in generally permitted routes to be offered by carriers designated by the government of Australia.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/168386.pdf

Annex I at the back of the treaty has a list of permissible routes. In particular, a carrier can only offer a service if it touches its own territory.

 

[AFF Editor]

For the wiki - Air China is now flying houston to panama with fifth freedom rights. COuld be a cood connector to an AA mileage run. Available in all three classes with good award availability too.

Thank you! Wiki updated. Looks like this route commences next week.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Also China Eastern is another one plying CMB-MLE. I saw fares as low as USD40 for that sector with them. A little more expensive ATM though.

 

[AFF Editor]

Also China Eastern is another one plying CMB-MLE. I saw fares as low as USD40 for that sector with them. A little more expensive ATM though.

Thanks! Also added. Please let me know if you find any other routes missing.

 

[defurax]

AF flights to PPT and PTP are not 5th freedom. Last time I looked these two airports are in France and the French army is present at both airports.
Same applies to TN flight from LAX to CDG.

 

[rock86]

This is a great Wiki!!

 

[ellen10]

This is very interesting information.

 

[Peter Riddell]

It has been suggested by @RooFlyer that an up-to-date list of fifth-freedom routes would be a useful AFF resource.

Fifth freedom flights are international routes that neither start nor end in the operating airline's home country. They typically operate as a "tag flight" extension to a flight that originates in the airline's hub. For example, the Singapore-London leg of QF1 is a fifth-freedom flight.

Fifth-freedom flights are great for numerous reasons:
· They're usually cheap
· Excellent award availability
· They typically use wide-body long-haul aircraft
· An opportunity to sample airlines you would otherwise never fly
· Can be handy for RTW bookings when you want to fly somewhere other than an alliance hub airport

Read more about fifth-freedom flights here: Fifth-Freedom Flights: A Great Way to Travel

The purpose of this thread is to provide a complete, up-to-date list of fifth-freedom routes. This thread can also be a place to discuss fifth-freedom flights in general.

I'll try to keep the wiki updated, but anyone is welcome to edit the wiki if any information is incorrect. Fifth-freedom routes change constantly, so there may be a few errors from time to time. AFF members are welcome to add any other fifth-freedom flights that I may have missed to the wiki. If you're unable to edit the wiki, just post in this thread.

Fantastic, thanks for posting this. Very handy.

 

[Peter Riddell]

Well as we know, Qantas' LAX-JFK sector is not a fifth-freedom flight because seats can only be sold in conjunction with a QF international flight to/from Australia. I was reading this morning that apparently Qantas has been fined for selling seats in conjunction with international codeshare flights on partner airlines: Qantas Is Being Fined For Illegally Selling Tickets On Their New York To Los Angeles Flight - One Mile at a Time

Does this mean you specifically have to fly Qantas from SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX on the same ticket to be able use this flight? What about if you're flying a RTW ticket and fly (for example) SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK? Would you be allowed to book a seat on QF11?

No (as far as I know). You need to be inbound/outbound LAX on QF metal.