A Platinum Flight for $1400

[Kangol]

Re: not getting bonus points for WP, is that because the flights are all taken in a very short space of time ?

How long does status take to kick in once reached ? Is it like 3-4 days or even longer ? I know with flights taken with QF the points/SCs have posted the next day. Appreciate that it would take longer with AA crediting to QF but how much longer.

The actual situation is this.

I'm already SG and will still be SG for the whole US trip.
My year just reset on 30 June so I'm on 0 SCs at the moment. However by the time I start the first SC run with AA (May next year) I should already have 825 SCs. My gf would have 305 SCs.

The first SC run should net us 660 SC each. So then I would have 1485 SC and she would have 990 SC.

Our next SC run (this second one is not an actual run but going to places we actually want to go lol) starts 4 days later.

So what I want to know is; would we already click over into WP and SG for the purposes of points calculation for the second run ?

Thanks.

Not getting the bonus points is because you need the actual status to get the status bonus. One requirement of getting status is the 4 squiggles.

Status kicks in automatically when the SC and squiggle requirement is reached. In my experience, AA may take 2-3 days. One day if you're really lucky.

You will click over into WP/SG respectively during your first run, provided you get the 4 squiggles before that.

 

[Nizar]

Not getting the bonus points is because you need the actual status to get the status bonus. One requirement of getting status is the 4 squiggles.

Status kicks in automatically when the SC and squiggle requirement is reached. In my experience, AA may take 2-3 days. One day if you're really lucky.

You will click over into WP/SG respectively during your first run, provided you get the 4 squiggles before that.

Okay excellent.
Yep we will both have done the 4 squiggles before leaving to the US.

Will we have issues getting lounge access if we are WP but don't actually have the card ?
Any decent lounges in JFK or LAX (for on the way home) ?
I heard OW is building a lounge in LAX not sure if that will be done by May ?

Cheers.

 

[Kangol]

Will we have issues getting lounge access if we are WP but don't actually have the card ?
Any decent lounges in JFK or LAX (for on the way home) ?
I heard OW is building a lounge in LAX not sure if that will be done by May ?

Cheers.

You shouldn't have problem with OWE-level access without the card provided your status actually ticks over on the QF system, ie. the SCs to get you to 1400 post in time.
The good ol' asking them to take your number out then putting it back in trick works to update your status on their system (well it has for me and others on this forum).
JFK and LAX have the AA F/Ls (I have only been to the LAX one).
The LAX F/L is decent and depending on what you are after, can be better than the "old" (or current) QF/BA/OW F lounge in TBIT in some regard.

I don't know when the new TBIT QF lounge will be open but this report just says 2014, no mention of the month.
New airline lounges for LAX: what you

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Thanks for your response.

Re: 4 squiggle flights yes I think that's what we will do.
Re: missing out on PS and SG packs, eh no biggie.

Re: not getting bonus points for WP, is that because the flights are all taken in a very short space of time ?

You would only earn your status bonus points as an SG if you had not done the 4 squiggle flights whereas if you'd done your 4 squiggles prior to your status run, once your AA points had posted (which only takes 2-3 days) & you had achieved your 1400SC your earn from that moment on would be the 100% WP bonus level instead of 75% bonus as a Gold.

What status is your GF's QF status right now?

How long does status take to kick in once reached ? Is it like 3-4 days or even longer ? I know with flights taken with QF the points/SCs have posted the next day. Appreciate that it would take longer with AA crediting to QF but how much longer.

The actual situation is this.

I'm already SG and will still be SG for the whole US trip. My year just reset on 30 June so I'm on 0 SCs at the moment. However by the time I start the first SC run with AA (May next year) I should already have 825 SCs. My gf would have 305 SCs.

The first SC run should net us 660 SC each. So then I would have 1485 SC and she would have 990 SC.

Our next SC run (this second one is not an actual run but going to places we actually want to go lol) starts 4 days later.

So what I want to know is; would we already click over into WP and SG for the purposes of points calculation for the second run ?

Thanks.

If 4 days later then I would be pretty confident in saying that your next run would credit as the 100% WP status bonus as I've never had to wait longer than 72 hours for AA flights to credit to QF.

I had a look at my QF activity statement from last November & my AA flights credited as follows:

Sun 04 Nov 1 sector flown / credited on Wed 07 Nov (was an overnight flight so arrived in DFW 05 Nov)
Mon 05 Nov 2 sectors flown / both credited on Wed 07 Nov
Tue 06 Nov 2 sectors flown / one credited on Wed 07 Nov & the other credited on Fri 09 Nov
Thu 08 Nov 2 sectors flown / both credited on Fri 09 Nov
Fri 09 Nov 3 sectors flown / all credited on Sat 10 Nov

So in summary some credited 24 hours later, some 48 hours later & others 72 hours later.

 

[Nizar]

You shouldn't have problem with OWE-level access without the card provided your status actually ticks over on the QF system, ie. the SCs to get you to 1400 post in time.
The good ol' asking them to take your number out then putting it back in trick works to update your status on their system (well it has for me and others on this forum).
JFK and LAX have the AA F/Ls (I have only been to the LAX one).
The LAX F/L is decent and depending on what you are after, can be better than the "old" (or current) QF/BA/OW F lounge in TBIT in some regard.

I don't know when the new TBIT QF lounge will be open but this report just says 2014, no mention of the month.
New airline lounges for LAX: what you

Cheers for the info.

Actually just thinking out loud, as our second SC run won't improve either of our status' (I will stay WP and gf will stay SG) perhaps its better to credit the remaining part of the trip to our AA account ?
We can just put in our AA number when booking that second run ?
The second SC run is EWR-MIA-DCA-ORD-EWR which is good for 360 SCs or 3339 miles.
I can't see any further advantage or continuing to credit to QF as doing those extra SCs won't get me even a loyalty bonus and my gf will hit hers on the way back to Aus. Or will it be much poorer bang for buck to credit to AA as neither of us have status there ?

 

[Nizar]

You would only earn your status bonus points as an SG if you had not done the 4 squiggle flights whereas if you'd done your 4 squiggles prior to your status run, once your AA points had posted (which only takes 2-3 days) & you had achieved your 1400SC your earn from that moment on would be the 100% WP bonus level instead of 75% bonus as a Gold.

What status is your GF's QF status right now?

Ah I see. We should be right then. GF's status is NB (actually have not even opened an account for her but will do this shortly before our first QF flight together which is in Dec) but looking at flights we've already got booked, she would have 150-250SCs. I'm still trying to work out whether to do our positioning flight to HNL from LAX in F but its so damn expensive lol might just have to suck it up in Y.

If 4 days later then I would be pretty confident in saying that your next run would credit as the 100% WP status bonus as I've never had to wait longer than 72 hours for AA flights to credit to QF.

Ok awesome.

Thanks.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Ah I see. We should be right then. GF's status is NB (actually have not even opened an account for her but will do this shortly before our first QF flight together which is in Dec) but looking at flights we've already got booked, she would have 150-250SCs. I

'm still trying to work out whether to do our positioning flight to HNL from LAX in F but its so damn expensive lol might just have to suck it up in Y.

Why do you need to 'position' in LAX for a KUPP? Wouldn't it be better to do the KUPP ex HNL as mostly there's less than $100.00 diff whether the KUPP is HNL/xx_ or LAX/xx_?

Paid sector fares HNL/LAX can be very expensive but you could always do a QF Partner/Classic Award on AA for 25,000 points plus taxes of USD2.50pp as an alternative.

Our next KUPP we're starting in HNL but have got an overnight transit in LAX then continue on to our destination the next day thus avoiding combinations involving red eye flights which is to be avoided at all costs - even in F!

What's your plan to get to & from the US? It sounds like you're flying into HNL but what city are you flying back from?

 

[Nizar]

Why do you need to 'position' in LAX for a KUPP? Wouldn't it be better to do the KUPP ex HNL as mostly there's less than $100.00 diff whether the KUPP is HNL/xx_ or LAX/xx_?

Paid sector fares HNL/LAX can be very expensive but you could always do a QF Partner/Classic Award on AA for 25,000 points plus taxes of USD2.50pp as an alternative.

Our next KUPP we're starting in HNL but have got an overnight transit in LAX then continue on to our destination the next day thus avoiding combinations involving red eye flights which is to be avoided at all costs - even in F!

What's your plan to get to & from the US? It sounds like you're flying into HNL but what city are you flying back from?

We are flying MEL-LAX-JFK. I will have say 10-11 days in LA before going onto JFK. The best priced run I could find starts in HNL (HNL-LAX-MIA-AUA-MIA-LAX-HNL) so I have to get there and then I need to get back to LAX to get my onward flight to JFK.

But if you have a better suggestion, fire away

 

[Nizar]

Paid sector fares HNL/LAX can be very expensive but you could always do a QF Partner/Classic Award on AA for 25,000 points plus taxes of USD2.50pp as an alternative.

And a good alternative too however I can't seem to get HNL as a destination from LAX when looking for a Classic Award (Show classic awards only) on the QF home page.
In fact the only cities available starting with H seem to be domestic HBA, HTI and Hervey bay ?
Not sure what's happened to HEL or even HKG. May be playing up though so I will try again later.

And you were right about expensive think $600 return in Y and $2700 in F :shock:

 

[Hvr]

Well think out of the square. New York is but a short train trip away from the city of brotherly love where you can get some interesting multi-city combinations.

Or only four hours by train to Boston where a cheap BOS-JFK-MIA-SJU fare might even be found. From SJU you can fly to several different cities with lots of connections. You might even find a good flight to the largest airport in the USA.

 

[Nizar]

Well think out of the square. New York is but a short train trip away from the city of brotherly love where you can get some interesting multi-city combinations.

Or only four hours by train to Boston where a cheap BOS-JFK-MIA-SJU fare might even be found. From SJU you can fly to several different cities with lots of connections. You might even find a good flight to the largest airport in the USA.

Already doing a carribean run out of HNL to AUA which is $1320 for 660 SCs I thought that was pretty good ?
I tried a few BOS and SEA combinations to try to stretch out the mileage but couldn't really find anything much better than $2 per SC.
But will look again cheers.

 

[Kangol]

Cheers for the info.

Actually just thinking out loud, as our second SC run won't improve either of our status' (I will stay WP and gf will stay SG) perhaps its better to credit the remaining part of the trip to our AA account ?
We can just put in our AA number when booking that second run ?
The second SC run is EWR-MIA-DCA-ORD-EWR which is good for 360 SCs or 3339 miles.
I can't see any further advantage or continuing to credit to QF as doing those extra SCs won't get me even a loyalty bonus and my gf will hit hers on the way back to Aus. Or will it be much poorer bang for buck to credit to AA as neither of us have status there ?

Those SCs will contribute to QF LTS/LTG, if that is of any benefit. Or, depending on your other plans for that membership year, it may help get you over the line (more for your gf, unless you are aiming for the 2400 bonus).

The same run will get you 3339*1.5 EQPs (5008.5) on AA which in theory will get you over the line for an AA gold challenge.
Challenge (AA) - FlyerGuide Wiki
Elite AA status is good for short haul domestic QF flights where distance is less than 500 miles because of the minimum RDM guarantee for AA elites.

You have to be careful because the AA mileage calculator may vary slightly to the MileageMonkey one (which is where you got the 3339 presumably, that's what I got from MM) and a few miles here and there on each segment may *just* bring you under the 5000.
Best way to confirm it is to do a dummy booking on aa.com for the same route and it will show you the exact mileage for each segment.

Due to the different way AA calculates status (miles, points or segments), you will not earn "normal" AA status quicker by flying in premium cabins over full fare Y. That is obviously not the case with QF and the SC system, so the bang for your buck "value" in your status run is more evident when crediting to QFF.

 

[Nizar]

Those SCs will contribute to QF LTS/LTG, if that is of any benefit. Or, depending on your other plans for that membership year, it may help get you over the line (more for your gf, unless you are aiming for the 2400 bonus).

The same run will get you 3339*1.5 EQPs (5008.5) on AA which in theory will get you over the line for an AA gold challenge.
Challenge (AA) - FlyerGuide Wiki
Elite AA status is good for short haul domestic QF flights where distance is less than 500 miles because of the minimum RDM guarantee for AA elites.

You have to be careful because the AA mileage calculator may vary slightly to the MileageMonkey one (which is where you got the 3339 presumably, that's what I got from MM) and a few miles here and there on each segment may *just* bring you under the 5000.
Best way to confirm it is to do a dummy booking on aa.com for the same route and it will show you the exact mileage for each segment.

Due to the different way AA calculates status (miles, points or segments), you will not earn "normal" AA status quicker by flying in premium cabins over full fare Y. That is obviously not the case with QF and the SC system, so the bang for your buck "value" in your status run is more evident when crediting to QFF.

Thanks for the detailed response, and your suggestions within it, I do appreciate it.
But damn, the AA system looks much more complex than QFs ? Points are different to miles ?
I don't fly a whole lot of domestic in Aus so not sure if worth it.

However I am interested in accelerating my AA Miles account balance so I may have to look deeper into the way the AA program works.
Is the Plat level you can reach via a challenge AAs highest tier ? equiv to QF WP ? And would this entitle you to 100% more miles and other benefits etc ?

Cheers

 

[madrooster]

Thanks for the detailed response, and your suggestions within it, I do appreciate it.
But damn, the AA system looks much more complex than QFs ? Points are different to miles ?
I don't fly a whole lot of domestic in Aus so not sure if worth it.

However I am interested in accelerating my AA Miles account balance so I may have to look deeper into the way the AA program works.
Is the Plat level you can reach via a challenge AAs highest tier ? equiv to QF WP ? And would this entitle you to 100% more miles and other benefits etc ?

Cheers

Yes it is more complex as are the other US carriers, eg. US, UA and DL.

Here is a quick glossary for you in the case of AA:

CoS - class of service, eg. F, J etc.
RDM - redeemable miles (consists of EQM + CoS bonus + status bonus)
EQM - elite qualifying miles, these are the base flown miles without any status bonus or CoS bonus, modified with a multiplier <= 1 depending on fare class (eg. often 0.5 or lower for deep discount Y for non-AA) - formula is EQM = flown miles * EQM multiplier
EQP - elite qualifying points, these are calculated using a multiplier on the number of EQM (anything up to 1.5) - formula is EQP = flown miles * EQM multiplier * EQP multiplier
EQS - elite qualifying segments - each segment counts as a EQS as long as the segment's fare class earns points on AA... pretty obvious this one

Earn tables are here: American Airlines AAdvantage Airline Partners | aa.com

Generally speaking (there's exception cases of course):

1. Flying in premium cabins crediting to AA, eg. W, J, F it is quicker to qualify for AA status by EQP
2. Flying in discount Y crediting to AA, it will be either EQS or EQM (depends on your flying pattern)
3. If you generally mostly fly J or F cabins it's easier to obtain QF status than AA status
4. If you generally mostly fly in W cabins, AA status will be easier
5. If you generally mostly fly QF domestic deep discount Y (that is O and Q class), then AA status will be easier (qualifying by EQS)
6. If you generally mostly fly QF international deep discount Y (same O and Q class), then QF status will be easier

You can take an AA challenge to obtain either gold (equiv. to QF silver/OW ruby) or platinum (equiv. to QF gold/OW sapphire) status, but not executive platinum (equiv. to QF platinum/OW emerald). Requirement is 5000 EQP or 10000 EQP (not EQM) respectively within a 3 month period.

AA golds get a 25% status bonus and AA platinums/executive platinums get a 100% bonus. See the benefits here: http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/eliteStatus/elite-benefits-chart.jsp

In the case of earning status, if taking a challenge then YUPP/KUPP fares are pretty much required to get the EQP (since discount Y earns less than 1 EQP per flown mile) or fares in W/J/F. If qualifying by normal means, see the general cases I listed above.

 

[Nizar]

Yes it is more complex as are the other US carriers, eg. US, UA and DL.

Here is a quick glossary for you in the case of AA:

CoS - class of service, eg. F, J etc.
RDM - redeemable miles (consists of EQM + CoS bonus + status bonus)
EQM - elite qualifying miles, these are the base flown miles without any status bonus or CoS bonus, modified with a multiplier <= 1 depending on fare class (eg. often 0.5 or lower for deep discount Y for non-AA) - formula is EQM = flown miles * EQM multiplier
EQP - elite qualifying points, these are calculated using a multiplier on the number of EQM (anything up to 1.5) - formula is EQP = flown miles * EQM multiplier * EQP multiplier
EQS - elite qualifying segments - each segment counts as a EQS as long as the segment's fare class earns points on AA... pretty obvious this one

Earn tables are here: American Airlines AAdvantage Airline Partners | aa.com

Generally speaking (there's exception cases of course):

1. Flying in premium cabins crediting to AA, eg. W, J, F it is quicker to qualify for AA status by EQP
2. Flying in discount Y crediting to AA, it will be either EQS or EQM (depends on your flying pattern)
3. If you generally mostly fly J or F cabins it's easier to obtain QF status than AA status
4. If you generally mostly fly in W cabins, AA status will be easier
5. If you generally mostly fly QF domestic deep discount Y (that is O and Q class), then AA status will be easier (qualifying by EQS)
6. If you generally mostly fly QF international deep discount Y (same O and Q class), then QF status will be easier

You can take an AA challenge to obtain either gold (equiv. to QF silver/OW ruby) or platinum (equiv. to QF gold/OW sapphire) status, but not executive platinum (equiv. to QF platinum/OW emerald). Requirement is 5000 EQP or 10000 EQP (not EQM) respectively within a 3 month period.

AA golds get a 25% status bonus and AA platinums/executive platinums get a 100% bonus. See the benefits here: Elite Status Benefits

In the case of earning status, if taking a challenge then YUPP/KUPP fares are pretty much required to get the EQP (since discount Y earns less than 1 EQP per flown mile) or fares in W/J/F. If qualifying by normal means, see the general cases I listed above.

That is a great summary, thanks for your time.
Maybe it should be made a sticky - "When to credit to AA or QF ?"

Just one thing. Isn't #1 and #3 contradictory ? Or for #1 do you mean if flying in premium cabins in the US ?
For eg. If flying say MEL-DXB return on QF in paid J where's best to credit to ?

 

[madrooster]

Just one thing. Isn't #1 and #3 contradictory ? Or for #1 do you mean if flying in premium cabins in the US ?
For eg. If flying say MEL-DXB return on QF in paid J where's best to credit to ?

#1 and #2 are specific to a situation where you are solely only interested in gaining AA status eg. in situations where one already has reached LTG at QF, or is already QF WP/has already requal'd

#3 - #6 are non specific and applies to anyone looking to choose which program to credit to for fastest status earning.

Your example of MEL-DXB return in J would get you closer to status credited to QF but again it all revolves around overall intention and flying pattern.

 

[Kangol]

Maybe it should be made a sticky - "When to credit to AA or QF ?"

No need for a sticky - the answer is:
"depends on where you fly, who you fly with, what cabins you fly in, how often you do it and what you want to achieve"
Seriously. There are so many variables that need to be taken into account.

5. If you generally mostly fly QF domestic deep discount Y (that is O and Q class), then AA status will be easier (qualifying by EQS)
6. If you generally mostly fly QF international deep discount Y (same O and Q class), then QF status will be easier

I would also add:

#5 - for short haul QF domestic, ie MEL-SYD, earning QF status would be easier.
For AA: in O/Q class on a 438 mile QF coded flight for someone with no AA status, it would earn 109.5 EQMs and 54.75 EQPs :shock:
To get to AA Gold (OWR) - 25,000 EQMs it would take 229 segments to get there :!:

If you are qualifying on the segments rule, both AA and QF would require 30 segments to get to OWR but there may be the issue of a minimum number of AA coded flights. You'd also have more QFF points (30,000) vs AA miles (3,285)
On the same route and counting segments, AA would win out for higher tiers (OWS - 60 for AA, 70 for QF) and (OWE - 100 for AA and 140 for QF) but again the AA squiggle count would also need to be taken into consideration.

#6 - depends on the flight number.
AA flight numbers on QF metal earn considerably more. You can only book these AA codeshares through AA, not QF. Depending on the exchange rate and available sales at the time, they can be had for a comparable cost.
Consider MEL-LAX QF93/AA7349 and/or the return on LAX-MEL QF94/AA7356.

In O/Q class, on a 7935 mile flight, on an AA flight number crediting to AA you'd need 4 segments to get to OWR (25k EQMs), 7 for OWS (50k) and 13 for OWE (100k).
On a QF flight number crediting to QFF, you'd need 7, 16 and 32 segments to get to OWR/OWS/OWE respectively.

When you credit to the opposition FF program, that's when it becomes a bad idea.
On a QF flight number crediting to AA, you get 1983 EQMs per segment so those figures become: 13/26/51
On an AA flight number crediting to QFF, they are the same as a QF flight number (7/16/32) but the point earn is considerably less (one quarter of that earned on a QF flight number).

 

[madrooster]

I would also add:

#5 - for short haul QF domestic, ie MEL-SYD, earning QF status would be easier.
For AA: in O/Q class on a 438 mile QF coded flight for someone with no AA status, it would earn 109.5 EQMs and 54.75 EQPs :shock:
To get to AA Gold (OWR) - 25,000 EQMs it would take 229 segments to get there :!:

If you are qualifying on the segments rule, both AA and QF would require 30 segments to get to OWR but there may be the issue of a minimum number of AA coded flights. You'd also have more QFF points (30,000) vs AA miles (3,285)
On the same route and counting segments, AA would win out for higher tiers (OWS - 60 for AA, 70 for QF) and (OWE - 100 for AA and 140 for QF) but again the AA squiggle count would also need to be taken into consideration.

#6 - depends on the flight number.
AA flight numbers on QF metal earn considerably more. You can only book these AA codeshares through AA, not QF. Depending on the exchange rate and available sales at the time, they can be had for a comparable cost.
Consider MEL-LAX QF93/AA7349 and/or the return on LAX-MEL QF94/AA7356.

In O/Q class, on a 7935 mile flight, on an AA flight number crediting to AA you'd need 4 segments to get to OWR (25k EQMs), 7 for OWS (50k) and 13 for OWE (100k).
On a QF flight number crediting to QFF, you'd need 7, 16 and 32 segments to get to OWR/OWS/OWE respectively.

When you credit to the opposition FF program, that's when it becomes a bad idea.
On a QF flight number crediting to AA, you get 1983 EQMs per segment so those figures become: 13/26/51
On an AA flight number crediting to QFF, they are the same as a QF flight number (7/16/32) but the point earn is considerably less (one quarter of that earned on a QF flight number).

Just thought I'd add I'm using the assumption here that AA has not been enforcing the AA squiggle rule. If they were to enforce it, it would definitely change things. I'm also assuming primary flight numbers are used rather than codeshares and the reason for this is because I'm sure a lot of people value their (real) ability to select seats etc. ahead of time. Taking your example of LAX flights for example, I have seen first hand a number of people flying the AA codeshare who have been shafted on seat selections where they rang AA (or other means) and had seats selected only to find at check in that these seat selections never stuck. Codeshares have just always been poorly implemented in terms of these features - VA/EY and VA/SQ are other examples of this.

 

[will2rob]

If my QFF membership year ends on 31 March 2014, would I be better off planning one of these runs after that date? I will hit gold in November and will have around 1010 SC at that stage. Unless I get a double SC offer I think that is where I will peg out at this stage for the year. Am I right in assuming that if I did a SC run in the states that was sufficient to hit WP, the best time to do it would be early in the membership year after my 4 domestic sectors?

I have played with the AA booking engine and have found a couple of runs between March and May that come in between USD $1500 - $1787 for up to 1290 SC depending on the date and routing that are doable.

 

[legroom]

If my QFF membership year ends on 31 March 2014, would I be better off planning one of these runs after that date? I will hit gold in November and will have around 1010 SC at that stage. Unless I get a double SC offer I think that is where I will peg out at this stage for the year. Am I right in assuming that if I did a SC run in the states that was sufficient to hit WP, the best time to do it would be early in the membership year after my 4 domestic sectors?

I have played with the AA booking engine and have found a couple of runs between March and May that come in between USD $1500 - $1787 for up to 1290 SC depending on the date and routing that are doable.

Another 390 SCs before end of March 2014 would give WP until 31 Mar 2015.

Further, you would then require only 1200 SCs before 31/3/15 to requalify.

Worst, you will drop back to SG.

If it were me, and time would allow, that's what I would plan.