A330s out of life

[jb747]

A story doing the rounds that two of the QF330s are now permanently grounded, having run out of 'cycles'. If so, that represents the most hideous failure of management, from the board on down. And of course, it will only get worse. Failure to order new aircraft in a timely manner is not something that can be fixed quickly. It took about 16 years of mismanagement to get there, and could take almost as long to fix the problem. Well done AJ.

Have to add to it too, in that the glorious leader retired two A380s that were quite young, and certainly nowhere near pension age.

'Laughable': Qantas pilots mock new chairman's plea to consumers

'At least he is being somewhat honest,' a Qantas pilot said. 'Someone finally is about the state of our aircraft — we could do with a lot more of that. But he hardly told the whole truth.'

www.crikey.com.au

 

[defurax]

They can always wet lease QR aircraft

 

[wenglock.mok]

That is very interesting, as the three A330s currently grounded are QPH, EBK and EBD, two of which are not particularly old and one of which was on the ground for at least four years because of COVID.

 

[elanshin]

A story doing the rounds that two of the QF330s are now permanently grounded, having run out of 'cycles'. If so, that represents the most hideous failure of management, from the board on down. And of course, it will only get worse. Failure to order new aircraft in a timely manner is not something that can be fixed quickly. It took about 16 years of mismanagement to get there, and could take almost as long to fix the problem. Well done AJ.

'Laughable': Qantas pilots mock new chairman's plea to consumers

'At least he is being somewhat honest,' a Qantas pilot said. 'Someone finally is about the state of our aircraft — we could do with a lot more of that. But he hardly told the whole truth.'

www.crikey.com.au

Just curious, but is "running out of cycles" a maintenance (or lack of) situation not necessarily a reflection of the age of the aircraft? I'm certian there are much older a330's flying around globally than the ones grounded here.

 

[elanshin]

They can always wet lease QR aircraft

Crickey mentioned Vanessa Hudson talking to Finnair for the rest of their 330 fleet (6 excluding the 2 already wetleased to QF) a little bit ago with their article on the state of Qantas Mainenance department.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Just curious, but is "running out of cycles" a maintenance (or lack of) situation not necessarily a reflection of the age of the aircraft? I'm certian there are much older a330's flying around globally than the ones grounded here.

Not so much age, since manufacture, but number of takeoff-landings. Hours for engines and air frame a different measure. Both determine maintenance requirements.
Some engines now can have many thousands of hours on wing. (continuous monitoring)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Flight-cycle-of-an-aircraft_fig2_341759711

Aircraft maintenance checks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because of the nature and the cost of a D check, most airlines plan D checks for their aircraft years in advance. Often, older aircraft being phased out of a particular airline's fleet are either stored or scrapped upon reaching their next D check, due to the high costs involved in comparison to the aircraft's value. On average, a commercial aircraft undergoes two or three D checks before being retired

Edit
25-01-2024 The Australian-Registered Commercial Aircraft With The Most Flight Hours On The Clock

<snip>
According to data from ch-aviation, Sydney-based Qantas has the aircraft with the most flight hours on record. In fact, the top 13 aircraft all belong to the national carrier. The aircraft with the most flight hours is an Airbus A330-300, registration VH-QPE. It has racked up 83,911 flight hours across 12,184 cycles at the time of the last measurement (August 2023). VH-QPE has been in Qantas' fleet since June 2006.

The rest of the top ten comprises Qantas' A330-300s. VH-QPC has the second-highest number of flight hours, at 83,279. However, it has more cycles than VH-QPE at 12,708. The third A330-300, VH-QPA, had accumulated 83,237 flight hours across 12,831 cycles at the time of the last measurement.

The airline's A330-200s also have thousands of hours under them and significantly more cycles than the -300s. The aircraft with the most hours is VH-EBC, with 74,589 across 17,761 cycles. VH-EBA, on the other hand, has amassed 73,637 hours with 17,747 flight cycles.
<snip>

Edit 2

Qantas Fleet of A330 (Active) | Airfleets aviation

Qantas Fleet of A330 (Active) - Aviation website for aircraft and airline information (flight, photo, travel, fleet listing, production list of Airbus Boeing Douglas Embraer Dash, ATR, Sukhoi, Saab...), plane photos for planespotters, flightlog database, aviation news, aviation store.

www.airfleets.net

 

[MELso]

Not so much age, since manufacture, but number of takeoff-landings.
Hours for engines and air frame a different measure.
Now some engines can have many thousands of hours on wing. (continuous monitoring)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Flight-cycle-of-an-aircraft_fig2_341759711

Aircraft maintenance checks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yup - short-haul narrowbody aircraft are typically designed for short hops (i.e. more flight cycles) and can therefore cope with more take-offs and landings than widebodies like the A330, so if QF has been using A330s for short domestic hops, it may have shortened their useful lives.

(As an aside, a mate of mine who works for Qantas said the A330s should be on club plates by now!)

 

[Mwenenzi]

(As an aside, a mate of mine who works for Qantas said the A330s should be on club plates by now!)

But cars & trucks on club plates can't be used for commercial purposes.

 

[oz_mark]

That's a lot of cycles = they're rated for either 33,000 or 40,000 cycles.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2019-title14-vol3/xml/CFR-2019-title14-vol3-sec121-1115.xml

Flight hours looks more limiting...

 

[moa999]

Sounds like one of those rumours.

Notably the current aircraft in the shop are not in the top flight hours in Mwenenzi's list.

 

[justinbrett]

If true this is the kind of thing QF has known about for years. I can't accept this is a surprise to them. Or any airline that uses a computerised engineering system. That's what this stuff tracks.

 

[elanshin]

If true this is the kind of thing QF has known about for years. I can't accept this is a surprise to them. Or any airline that uses a computerised engineering system. That's what this stuff tracks.

Makes it even more mindboggling to scrap the 2 380s now ..

 

[Cloud9]

Makes it even more mindboggling to scrap the 2 380s now ..

Meh. It was an Irishman.

 

[markis10]

Makes it even more mindboggling to scrap the 2 380s now ..

Not really, probably a few years from now before they can return to service if they were still wanted, better to part out and take the cash.

 

[SYD]

If true this is the kind of thing QF has known about for years. I can't accept this is a surprise to them. Or any airline that uses a computerised engineering system. That's what this stuff tracks.

Possibly why the wet lease arrangement was entered into during an opportunistic timing? Still doesn’t resolve the long term fleet planning decisions. Not that the uncertainty around COVID helped. Presumably firm orders placed in 2020 would be flying now?

 

[robbo135]

AJ did the right thing for himself by using the cash generated by QF to buy back shares, get the EPS up and pad his bonus, what on earth was QF going to need new aircraft for anyway......

 

[Himeno]

Presumably firm orders placed in 2020 would be flying now?

Order backlogs with both Boeing and Airbus are causing orders to arrive 4-9 years after the order is made, depending on aircraft type.
Based on current outstanding firm orders, and factoring in current and planned increases to assembly/delivery rates, it will take the following for a new aircraft order to arrive:

A220: 4 years
A320neo family: 8 years
A330neo: 5 years
A350: 6 years

737: 9 years
787: 7 years
777: 8 years

 

[SYD]

Order backlogs with both Boeing and Airbus are causing orders to arrive 4-9 years after the order is made, depending on aircraft type.
Based on current outstanding firm orders, and factoring in current and planned increases to assembly/delivery rates, it will take the following for a new aircraft order to arrive:

A220: 4 years
A320neo family: 8 years
A330neo: 5 years
A350: 6 years

737: 9 years
787: 7 years
777: 8 years

Yes, it was a hypothetical / “sliding door” comment. What if COVID hadn’t happened and all those supply chains weren’t turned upside down.

It’s going to take a good 4 or more years for things to settle down.

Obviously, QF and pretty much all airlines weren’t placing orders in 2020….

Edit: But even on those numbers, A330neos could be flying now.

 

[Cloud9]

Yes, it was a hypothetical / “sliding door” comment. What if COVID hadn’t happened and all those supply chains weren’t turned upside down.

It’s going to take a good 4 or more years for things to settle down.

Obviously, QF and pretty much all airlines weren’t placing orders in 2020….

And, of course, we now have to factor in tariffs from certain countries impacting supply chains as well...