AA5342 Collides with Helicopter

[QF WP]

Juan Brown from YouTube channel blancolirio:

 

[Cloud9]

Omg. How can this happen with today’s technology in a modern setting like that. Scary stuff.

It's horrific, that's absolutely true. <redacted>

 

[flydoc]

It seems that the callsign was PAT-25, which apparently stands for "Priority Air Transport". Claims that it was a VH-60 which is the VIP variant also used as Marine One. There is an audio from ATC in which it is asked if it has the CRJ in sight, and when it replies in the affirmative, is told to maintain visual separation. All to be confirmed....

A trap with ever accepting visual separation at night, is that it's quite possible to misidentify the aircraft you're supposed to be separating from, which has obvious ramifications.

IIRC, @jb747, you've posted previously about declining the night visual separation that is sometimes/often offered by ATC at some US airports? Haven't located the thread with the full context, but what are you early thoughts on whether this incident ends this practice?

 

[RSD]

Juan Brown from YouTube channel blancolirio:

Useful information - the helo acknowledges that he is to pass behind the CRJ and has the CRJ in sight - but doesn't appear to have passed behind any aircraft - let alone the CRJ. That whole setup though where helicopters can scoot across the glide slope of jets descending into a busy airport seems like it was never a good idea - let alone at night.

 

[markis10]

No it’s a huge loss to situational awareness because the aircraft can’t hear each other.

100% is a factor.

The aircraft can hear each other, just like aircraft will be on different frequencies here in Australia and not even realise it. Frequencies be it UHF or VHF are rebroadcast, sometimes you will have 5 or 6 difference frequencies mapping back to one controller position and everybody hears everybody else.

 

[justinbrett]

The aircraft can hear each other, just like aircraft will be on different frequencies here in Australia and not even realise it. Frequencies be it UHF or VHF are rebroadcast, sometimes you will have 5 or 6 difference frequencies mapping back to one controller position and everybody hears everybody else.

Yes it is that way in Australia. I am former RAAF ATC so know exactly how it works, and the impact of it when the facility is u/s.

It is not that way in DC, at least not during this incident. It has been widely discussed today that there was no rebroadcast facility between UHF and VHF. The controller transmitted on both but there was no rebroadcast for the aircraft transmissions.

 

[markis10]

Yes it is that way in Australia. I am former RAAF ATC so know exactly how it works, and the impact of it when the facility is u/s.

It is not that way in DC, at least not during this incident. It has been widely discussed today that there was no rebroadcast facility between UHF and VHF. The controller transmitted on both but there was no rebroadcast for the aircraft transmissions.

That’s the way it is worldwide, it’s an ICAO requirement where Aircraft share the same airspace be it controlled or otherwise. I would be surprised if this is an exception, then again this is the USA.

If the incident can be heard via LiveATC and you can hear the Blackhawk, it’s being rebroadcast, as LiveATC don’t have UHF feeds at that airport.

 

[justinbrett]

That’s the way it is worldwide, it’s an ICAO requirement where Aircraft share the same airspace be it controlled or otherwise. I would be surprised if this is an exception, then again this is the USA

Either way there was no rebroadcast during the incident and that's the point.

If the incident can be heard via LiveATC and you can hear the Blackhawk, it’s being rebroadcast, as LiveATC don’t have UHF feeds at that airport.

I'm not sure what more to tell you other than it has been confirmed it was not rebroadcast. I have listened to the LiveATC recording and the Black Hawk transmission is missing.

Other clips on X have the transmission so I assume they have sourced this elsewhere.

 

[justinbrett]

Latest Press Conference - The Secretary of Transportation advised the AA fuselage is in three parts inverted, in waist deep water.

They now don’t believe there will be any survivors. They have recovered 27 bodies so far plus one from the Black Hawk.

AA CEO is there now.

 

[QF WP]

Yes it is that way in Australia. I am former RAAF ATC so know exactly how it works, and the impact of it when the facility is u/s.

It is not that way in DC, at least not during this incident. It has been widely discussed today that there was no rebroadcast facility between UHF and VHF. The controller transmitted on both but there was no rebroadcast for the aircraft transmissions.

Well you two have a lot in common then, as @markis10 is also a former ATC’er.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Good timing for the boss of the FAA being hounded out of his job by Musk for trying to enforce safety conditions where Musk wants to abolish the FAA for restricting free enterprise.

 

[QF WP]

Some excerpts from the ongoing CNN updates: