ACCC action re cancelled Qantas flights

[support]

See below.

 

[Lynda2475]

ABC reports

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has launched legal action against Qantas for allegedly advertising tickets for more than 8,000 flights it had already cancelled but not removed from sale.

The ACCC claims that Qantas kept selling tickets for the flights that were scheduled to depart between May and July 2022 for an average of more than two weeks after the cancellation of the flights — and in some cases, up to 47 days.

The competition watchdog also alleges Qantas failed to notify existing ticketholders their flights had been cancelled for an average of 18 days, and up to 48 days, for more than 10,000 flights set to take off between May and July 2022.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

This one could be interesting. Lots of noise about Qantas at the moment, some of it justified, some not so much, but this issue warrants genuine scrutiny. What-aboutism and other apologetics won't carry any weight beyond forums like these.

I vividly recall multiple situations during Covid where Qantas had removed flights from public sale but not officially cancelled them. It was hard to cast it as anything other than a deliberate strategy not just to hold onto passengers' money longer, but also to get those passengers to "voluntarily" cancel flights and preclude the possibility of a refund even though Qantas had quietly cancelled them already.

For all my flight woes during Covid --- some with Qantas, plenty not including several that were far worse than dealing with Qantas --- this weird behaviour from Qantas stuck out to me as truly dodgy and not just a retrospective "gotcha." I'm glad it's warranted review.

 

[mbell1510]

A classic example of this would have been the continued push back of QF73/74 to SFO. I recall many members here mentioning how flights had been zeroed out in ExpertFlyer, but still being advertised for sale on the Qantas website.

 

[RooFlyer]

New on the ABC this morning

ACCC takes Qantas to court for allegedly selling tickets for cancelled flights​

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has launched legal action against Qantas for allegedly advertising tickets for more than 8,000 flights it had already cancelled but not removed from sale.

The ACCC claims that Qantas kept selling tickets for the flights that were scheduled to depart between May and July 2022 for an average of more than two weeks after the cancellation of the flights — and in some cases, up to 47 days.

Original bolding .

 

[Lynda2475]

This sums it up really: "We allege that Qantas' conduct in continuing to sell tickets to cancelled flights, and not updating ticketholders about cancelled flights, left customers with less time to make alternative arrangements and may have led to them paying higher prices to fly at a particular time not knowing that flight had already been cancelled,"

 

[AFF Editor]

AFF called this out last year - before the period when the ACCC alleges this to have happened.

Airlines Playing a Cruel Cancellation Game

Throughout the pandemic, airlines have had to cancel a lot of flights. This is already inconvenient enough for customers who had booked tickets on flights

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Happy Dude]

Still going on and rife.

A FB group that I lurk in has a post this morning about cancelled JQ flights in November. Comments littered with similar stories from stressed pax being put over a barrel.

 

[Lynda2475]

More details here https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...s/news-story/a6f3d12c40b080c57abe7eab1fa5961e

 

[TheInsider]

Still going on and rife.

A FB group that I lurk in has a post this morning about cancelled JQ flights in November. Comments littered with similar stories from stressed pax being put over a barrel.

I don't think this is related at all.
The article is alleging that QF was cancelling flights and NOT advising its passengers and still selling tickets.

You're just saying customers are annoyed because of schedule changes, which is standard in the airline industry. Not justifying it, but two separate things at play here.

 

[AIRwin]

QF statement:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-in-response-to-accc-action/

 

[Happy Dude]

I don't think this is related at all.
The article is alleging that QF was cancelling flights and NOT advising its passengers and still selling tickets.

You're just saying customers are annoyed because of schedule changes, which is standard in the airline industry. Not justifying it, but two separate things at play here.

The cancelled JQ flights discussed in the FB post and comments are still for sale and the pax haven't been notified, according to the FB post (which you haven't seen). Most seemed to discover the cancellations when looking at their flights online for whatever reason. The stress and barrel issues relate to then being given unsuitable options when calling up to find out what's going on.

I appreciate your guess was based on the info in my comment, but if it wasn't related, I wouldn't have commented thanks.

 

[Scarlett]

There have been any number of threads about Qantas’, let’s call it ‘disappointing’ business practices on AFF in the past 20 years, but it really does feel like they’ve intensified in the past maybe five years. I cannot help but feel that this is the deliberate, but not publicly stated, leadership direction of the company: to cut costs as much as possible without directly doing illegal things.

That has lead to some distasteful practices such as being commented on in the media recently (Covid era ‘vouchers’ vs refunds; selling flights they intended to cancel; minimally trained offshored customer services).

Some may argue this is simply capitalism working as intended. Indeed I have argued a few times that QF have made changes/cuts/decisions because they probably felt like they had to, to survive against cheaper cost base competition, much like other legacy ‘major’ airlines have had to make changes and do things which can be considered ‘poor’, ‘nasty’, or distasteful. However, right now, it does feel like the level of tolerance for the leadership direction of the company has broken. Maybe people (especially media folks who can influence broader public opinion) have finally decided that kids in white uniforms singing in front of red earthed backdrops just doesn’t cover for the accumulation of business practices that could be labelled poor, sneaky, dishonest or mean?

More generally, I feel like the corporate ethos of maximising profit by using business practices that are deliberately in the grey zone between good and bad is now so institutionalised, that western societies just bounce from one outrage to the next. QF is the flavour of the week.

Audi build nice cars, but, will try to defeat anti pollution regulations…

Boeing used to build really well engineered aircraft, but the corporate focus on maximising profits meant a couple of cuts here and there…

Google started with the ‘do no evil’ motto and built their empire around a clean white front page for their search engine that was really good at what it designed for and didn’t spam you with ads. Then they expanded and focussed on maximising profits…

Joyce and QF will probably get a well deserved slap over the wrist with a wet noodle because of this issue and the merry-go-round will keep spinning.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I think the ACCC are on the wrong side of this issue. Advertising flights you know won't take off is arguably the most pro-consumer thing you can do as an airline. What this allows the consumer to do is buy the cheapest red e-deal ticket, then when QF does cancel/schedule change, allow them to choose whatever flight they want free of charge. Heck they could even cancel and get a full refund. All on a ticket which would not ordinarily allow them to cancel/change for free.

I'm also not sure if the ACCC have looked at Qantas' website recently, but connecting flights often cost more than non-stop, particularly on red e-deals. Certainly, I would prefer flying Sydney to Canberra via Brisbane and Melbourne to load up on status credits and lounge visits. This happened to me for my trip to ADL, meaning now I'll actually earn enough status credits to qualify for a loyalty bonus.

If anything the ACCC should be encouraging this behaviour by the airlines.

-RooFlyer88

 

[justinbrett]

I thought this must relate to the zeroing out of flights rather that formally cancelling them - which is a very annoying practice when it is a fait accompli.

But if the allegation was they are still on sale, that's another matter. I wonder how that's even possible GDS wise? I guess selling flights with no intention of operating them would be more likely.

 

[Peasant]

Qantas has really gotten itself into a pickle and has set itself up for what is now a perfect storm of bad press and pressure from all fronts.

While there’s been a lot of coverage of domestic cancellations, it’s on international flights that Qantas has really become a dog’s breakfast. They’ve created some real trauma and stress in the last few years and I believe that much of this is a result of management’s own decisions and its failure to invest in the fleet and adequately fund the necessary engineering workforce. Of course Joyce et al will blame everyone else but themselves.

Good to see the ACCC is taking notice.

 

[bcworld]

QF statement:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/featured/qantas-statement-in-response-to-accc-action/

I find Qantas statements in response to this type of thing typically very hawkish...this one isn't...says it all.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

I think the ACCC are on the wrong side of this issue. Advertising flights you know won't take off is arguably the most pro-consumer thing you can do as an airline. What this allows the consumer to do is buy the cheapest red e-deal ticket, then when QF does cancel/schedule change, allow them to choose whatever flight they want free of charge. Heck they could even cancel and get a full refund. All on a ticket which would not ordinarily allow them to cancel/change for free.

I'm also not sure if the ACCC have looked at Qantas' website recently, but connecting flights often cost more than non-stop, particularly on red e-deals. Certainly, I would prefer flying Sydney to Canberra via Brisbane and Melbourne to load up on status credits and lounge visits. This happened to me for my trip to ADL, meaning now I'll actually earn enough status credits to qualify for a loyalty bonus.

If anything the ACCC should be encouraging this behaviour by the airlines.

-RooFlyer88

I'd say there are two big caveats here:

1) Your first paragraph talks about alternatives being available. In many of these cases (especially when entire routes were suspended but still sold and/or borders closed), they weren't, and the delay in notification made rebooking when it might have been available even more challenging. I also had situations where it was obvious to all and sundry the flight was cancelled, but Qantas refused to touch the booking as the flight wasn't "officially" cancelled, which prevented me from rerouting or recovering the funds to make an alternative booking elsewhere (SYD-SFO, several times...).

2) Some of us love a wander around the country especially if it means more benefits like SCs, but most travellers want to get from A ---> B at the time and on the routing they booked.

TL/DR - I don't think the ACCC should be encouraging businesses to sell good/services they don't intend to provide, nor encourage them not to inform customers timely when they cannot.

 

[Catardale]

I booked a flight recently to the US for about 9 months time and an hour later an email came through from Qantas saying the flight had been cancelled and that they had rebooked me on a flight departing about 12 hours later. I did wonder at the time had they really cancelled the original flight in that hour between my booking and their email (highly improbable) or was it actually nonexistent when I booked it (highly likely). I think I know the answer now.

 

[encryptededdy]

While there’s been a lot of coverage of domestic cancellations, it’s on international flights that Qantas has really become a dog’s breakfast. They’ve created some real trauma and stress in the last few years and I believe that much of this is a result of management’s own decisions and its failure to invest in the fleet and adequately fund the necessary engineering workforce. Of course Joyce et al will blame everyone else but themselves.

Qantas is very lucky that BITRE only tracks domestic flights in their statistics, because if they tracked international flights then Qantas' numbers would be a blood bath compared to most international carriers flying a large number of flights to/from Australia.