Advice on limits for applications, and more.

[GSP]

OK.
Do you think there is any problem with a husband and wife both applying individually for the same card at the same time. (Assume we each have our own finances to 'declare' which will be acceptable). Do you think one of us would be declined because both of us are applying? Would they notice? Or would it be better to ensure we apply for a different card each, from a different bank. Any pros or cons?

It is really hard to answer that question without knowing what internal systems and checks are in place to look at that. My guess that most may not, but certainly some will, but then again they are in two different names each with their own declared assets/liabilities (I assume), you may be caught out if there was a check in place and you both claimed the same assets and same liabilities (without dividing by 2).

My thought is the risk is low - I personally would have no hesitation in applying that strategy.

 

[JennyMG]

My thought is the risk is low - I personally would have no hesitation in applying that strategy.

OK, here's another strategy.
What if I (personally) applied for 2 cards at once, from two different banks?
The purpose being that there is no 'search' on the credit score system,...well not until a week or more later anyway,...my Bankwest one has only just shown up from a month ago.
Is there any reason why I should only apply for one at a time?

 

[GSP]

OK, here's another strategy.
What if I (personally) applied for 2 cards at once, from two different banks?
The purpose being that there is no 'search' on the credit score system,...well not until a week or more later anyway,...my Bankwest one has only just shown up from a month ago.
Is there any reason why I should only apply for one at a time?

Hi JenyyMG, I have done this many times (applied two cards similar time). However some lenders are dead eye dicks at getting that new check in which may pique the 2nd lenders interest, but no more than if you waited...say a month.

Again, I personally would apply that strategy, it's not without risk as it causing a problem for the 2nd card but I would consider it low. The unfortunate thing if one (or both) card applications were declined you could never be sure it was because of this or some other reason as the lenders won't say.

 

[Jacques Vert]

qANTAS wellness app - check (though not very good at the steps, because online too much doing this!)

Calculate your BMI, invite friends to use the App and then each week invite them to a step challenge. It all adds up.

 

[JennyMG]

Hi JenyyMG, I have done this many times (applied two cards similar time). However some lenders are dead eye dicks at getting that new check in which may pique the 2nd lenders interest,

Some people are just dicks because they can be in positions of power. I might curl my J's in a way they disagree with, you'd never know why.
Do they usually 'check instantly?' When Bankwest checked my husband's score, it took ages to show up. Whether that was because they were so backlogged with applications, I don't know.

The way I see it, (because I've NEVER applied for cards to churn before, so am a total newb), is that if I apply for two different cards at once, one or the other is going to be first, so chances are I'll at least get one. Maybe even two. It's unlikely, given my credit score (799) and history, my lack of individual cards, and my own business, that I'd be knocked back for both.

So now I've just got to get the 'balls',... (Looking for someone to say, go for it, here....)

 

[Steady]

Go for it

 

[GSP]

Go for it!!

 

[cvmceg]

go for it jenny. have also done this after getting knocked back for one, applied to another with success.

 

[JennyMG]

go for it jenny. have also done this after getting knocked back for one, applied to another with success.

Thanks cvmceg - I'm going to right now. A bit of a pest that I have to wait for my latest ATO doc to come back.(It has the best income.) It may take a couple of weeks :/ but hopefully they'll wait for it.

 

[Foibles]

Hi Jenny,

From what source were you able to obtain an actual credit score (you mentioned 850).?

I'd be interested in finding mine - because I've run my own small business (IT Consultancy) profitably for 18 years, and have solid company and personal tax returns each year to show...but I am starting to get knocked back more and more. Qantas premier is a dead end (despite my longstanding loyalty to their brand), Westpac and ANZ are all dead zones and I have been rejected more than once.

I am wondering if this is something which members should be careful of - whether the accumulation of rejections (snowball effect) might compromise one's credit rating to the extent that credit cards become very difficult to acquire - with or without bonus points?!

 

[Foibles]

With regards to the chicken feed tactics for QFF points, you really need to consider the incremental overhead you incur in an effort to earn these points.

By way of example - if you shop at Woolworths as I do - then nice and easy. The points are just a bonus.

If you always take Uber - then same again. But often I find Didi or Taxify or Ola much cheaper - whereby Uber is not worth the added cost just to earn some points.

Next example - the QFF Terry White Chemist 1000 points sign up bonus when you spend $30 in store (not including prescriptions). You'll find that you could have bought the same stuff (generally) at Priceline or Chem Warehouse for $20 - so you're blowing at least $10 for the 1000 points, which is akin to spending $1000 for 100K points. Nobody would do this otherwise.

As per Red Energy - electricity is pretty exxy nowadays. So if the rate you sign up at is just a smidge worse than other retailers (Click, Lumo, etc) - then you might blow far more than you earn in points.

And if I run the math on that survey - Red Earth or whatever it was called. To spend 10 minutes to earn 200 points is akin to spending 5000 minutes - or 83 hours of my time in order to earn 100K points. Far easier just to find another bonus card deal (unless you are like me and getting blocked more and more!). Without inflaming anyone - unless i was a public servant and could do this at work - I simply do not have the spare time for this.

So it is well worthwhile doing some quick sums to figure out what is worth it and what is not. I did the Caltex 50K sign up for my company fuel card recently - because I spend this much on gas anyway - it was easily worthwhile.

Cheers,

Foibles

 

[JennyMG]

First I want to thank @GSP @Jacques Vert @Steady @BriarFlyer @Dr Ralph @Scr77 and the rest, for your very very valueable information and succinct advice.
I feel very pleased with my 3 recent applications. 4 actually.
Got a Bankwest for my husband.
I applied (all at once) for an ANZ black, a WEstpac Altitude and a Westpac Business choice.
I was successful for the two westpac ones. The ANZ I was declined...and am VERY angry about it, since there was NOT an income limit mentioned anywhere on their website, (even the 'guy' looked for it, and said it wasn't there, and would immediately be fixed.) I missed out on the limit by 2K. :/ Not happy Jan. (Despit having a very good pot of savings - they are all in joint investments and ANZ would not consider that my income because both names are on it. Lesson learned.

I'm very very pleased though, 90K Bankwest, 90K Westpac Bus., 60K Altitude. so 240K in 2 weeks. EAsy spend limits. I couldn't be happier. Thankyou. I feel I've got a handle on applications, learned some lessons. Credit score gone up. ?? no idea why.
I plan to churn those in a month or so (all except the Bankwest which will be my / Mr JMGs staple card for now, as it has no international transaction fees and a good earn rate.

I have a QUESTION:
it relates to your mentioning that I should look at putting an Amex card in the stable.
I haven't had an amex in 25 years.
I'm a little confused about credit v charge (not what they do but how credit ratings are calculated in regards to them.)
We always pay our cards off virtually immediately. That would work.
Is it because the lender Amex, isn't recorded on credit scores? why is everyone so enamoured of Amex?

 

[Dr Ralph]

I plan to churn those in a month or so (all except the Bankwest which will be my / Mr JMGs staple card for now, as it has no international transaction fees and a good earn rate.

This may not be possible. Some providers make you wait to full period before awarding the points. So could be 3 months or even longer (depending upon when you met the minimum spends) before you can cancel a card.

why is everyone so enamoured of Amex?

I'm not sure that is the case. I've just spent the last 18 months without an AMEX.

For me AMEX is just another card to churn. It does often have high sign up bonuses and of course there is always the cash back offers, which can be very lucrative (although less so now) if you can make them work for you. And depending upon the card, earn rates can be higher with AMEX than Visa or MasterCard.

 

[JennyMG]

Hi Jenny,

From what source were you able to obtain an actual credit score (you mentioned 850).?
............Westpac and ANZ are all dead zones and I have been rejected more than once.

I am wondering if this is something which members should be careful of - whether the accumulation of rejections (snowball effect) might compromise one's credit rating to the extent that credit cards become very difficult to acquire - with or without bonus points?!

Credit score - getting a free credit score is easy.
3 online co's I have found do it - GetCreditScore (which is the equifax brand.)
Creditcheck.illion.com.au - which is the illion brand.
and CreditSavvy, not sure which brand.

I was able to obtain credit details from all, and see the changes anytime I wish by loggin in.
I'm not sure what 'one free' a year is, Iseem to be able to see it all the time.
My score went from 899 to 799 after I closed two card accounts and was knocked back for Qantas Premier (my fault). My score went up again very soon after, no idea why, to839 even after a number of enquiries due to my recent churning activities. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but all three are within 50pts of eachother.

I'm sure rejections do snowball. However, I think the credit savvy people here will say that it is more important to concentrate on your habits, that accumulate cards first.
I think they would say think about why you are being rejected.
1. Always read the Ts and Cs (my first mistake.) - especially regarding income limit.
2. What other loans do you have? personal, car, credit cards(whether in debt or not is beside the point as they are 'loans' waiting to happen), mortgage?
3. Your income.
4. Your regular monthly expenditure.
What they are trying to ascertain is if your income is enough to cover a) all your loans (including the full limit on your credit cards) AND your usual expenditure. They don't care about savings, because you could spend that instantly. (took me a while to get that as I have substantial savings they were ignoring.)

If you are applying for cards where the income limit is above your income, Poof!! there goes that idea.
If your loans/cards/debt is far too close to your income - poof! back to the drawing board.
AND if you have defaulted on loans, payments, credit inthe past, then they may look on that as a bad lend.

Lots of reasons, and who can say. But if you are careful to pay everything on time, apply for the LOWEST LIMIT on a creditcard, and make sure you fit their Ts and Cs criteria, then you have a much better chance.
Perhaps you are applying for cards out of your reach (like I did with my first mistake.)

 

[JennyMG]

This may not be possible. Some providers make you wait to full period before awarding the points. So could be 3 months or even longer (depending upon when you met the minimum spends) before you can cancel a card.


I'm not sure that is the case. I've just spend the last 18 months without an AMEX.

For me AMEX is just another card to churn. It does often have high sign up bonuses and of course there is always the cash back offers, which can be very lucrative (although less so now) if you can make them work for you. And depending upon the card, earn rates can be higher with AMEX than Visa or MasterCard.

oh, sorry, I wasn't very clear....I mean I'll churn them as soon as they allow, rather than 'next month' or whatever.
Thanks Dr. Ralph. Good input as usual. I think all the ones I got are 90 days before points come in.
re Amex...mmmm. I'll watch out for them.

 

[33kft]

Is it because the lender Amex, isn't recorded on credit scores? why is everyone so enamoured of Amex?

Better earn rates, better merchant incentives (including ongoing monthly cashback offers, shop small annual event, etc), better insurances than Visa and MC alternatives. I like my Amex because the annual travel credit cancels out the annual fee, something you won't find many banks offering given they need to pay Visa/MC for their services.

That said, no reasons not to churn Amex there, and since the recent deval I am not sure everyone is so enamoured anymore. No point getting overly attached to any one card, soon enough the tables will turn and greener pastures will emerge.

The ANZ I was declined...and am VERY angry about it, since there was NOT an income limit mentioned anywhere on their website,

I wouldn't worry about it, if that upsets you I would steer far clear of Citibank or Macquarie cards at a minimum - they'll reject you and approve the person next to you in a seemingly worse financial condition, and you'll never know why. At least ANZ were forthcoming, which I find rare.

 

[JennyMG]

I wouldn't worry about it, ....... At least ANZ were forthcoming, which I find rare.

Actually I wasn't so much upset (once I found out why), I was annoyed.
I am very careful about Ts and Cs since I made a mistake on my very first application ever. I haven't done that since. I read all the info on the website and ads, and no mention of income limit anywhere, nor on the application.
I didn't expect an explanation regarding the declination, but any explanation that I got was partly in Hindi, and I could barely understand it (not trying to be racist or anything, but the person I spoke to kept lapsing into another language, and from the accent sounded Indian or similar.) I kept having to ask for repeats. She tried to give an explanation, but failed. I spoke to two other people, who were equally as poor (at this stage I was trying to learn WHAT was counted and what wasn't...as one had said that any joint investments were not counted.
I said why should I include my joint expenditure if my joint investments were not counted? and they couldn't answer. Finally a fourth person let slip that my income was not up to the min limit. I asked what the limit was, and was told.
I was horrified. And said so. It was not on the website or eligibility criteria at all. The CS person tried to find it and failed. Said he'd get a supervisor onto it to look and they failed too. I would never have applied if I'd know.

THATs why I was angry.
And ANZ was so un-forthcoming it was almost comical. Apart from needing an international translator (almost) to understand the cards department people, I found their lack of CS skills and information atrocious.

I agree @33kft that the rhymes and reasons for financial eligibility seems tenuous at best.
Clearly my amassed savings are not of interest, nor are my joint investments with my husband. That is why my income didn't come up 'to scratch.' Don't know what other husband and wife teams do, but I can't imagine that many have investments in just one name. Why 50% of it is not counted, I have no idea. Crazy. Since I'm supposed to put down 1/2 of the household expenses.

 

[33kft]

Clearly my amassed savings are not of interest, nor are my joint investments with my husband.

In all honesty I don't think it is taken into account at all. Their key metric is your ability to service payments from regular income. Even if you could prove that you could do so through investment/savings, I am not sure it would change the outcome. I may be entirely wrong, of course, but I have not ever heard of anyone in my recollection who has successfully replaced an income test with assets when applying for a credit card.

The fact ANZ didn't disclose the income limit does seem poor in my experience, however I wonder if the poor communications from the ANZ assesors mean that they botched the message - ie did they mean to say that your income did not meet their means test for the given card/limit when considering your other commitments?

 

[cove]

I struggled just to get a BankWest World CC when Mrscove had one with a $75,000 limit. Funny thing was we had same income and assets. Retail banks dont know much is what I think.
Anyway Amplify is my favourite CC !

 

[JennyMG]

The fact ANZ didn't disclose the income limit does seem poor in my experience, however I wonder if the poor communications from the ANZ assesors mean that they botched the message - ie did they mean to say that your income did not meet their means test for the given card/limit when considering your other commitments?

Both possibly, but chiefly the eligibility criteria of income. When I found out that my gross income (from my small business) was $2K UNDER the limit I was horrified. I found it out by absoloute chance since I simply couldnt understand what the problem could be, I kept asking - not why they had declined me, but how they could decline me when I met (as far as I knew) ALL their eligibility criteria, and had absolutely no debts whatsoever, no other current cards, a long history with a recently closed pair of card accounts, with perfect record in each.
Their income limit, I imagine, is the limit is set as that is their cut off point for what they believe is sustainable 'living' expenses. So perhaps that was 'involved as well.'
Ultimately it was the 2K under the income eligibility limit that disqualified me. Yes. Very annoyed. I must have a look on their website and see if it's updated yet.