Advice: re pursuing possible misleading Economy X pricing display on Virgin website

[eastwest101]

Hello all,

I have started a minor dispute with Virgin about the advertised price of some Economy X seats that were selected and paid on the evening of the 31st of October 2024, just two passengers on a one-way domestic economy booking on the Virgin website. Long story short, there was some sort of Virgin promotion for a limited time where Economy X seats were reduced from $50 ea in this case to $15 ea., it must have been a wider promotion for Economy X and this promo apparently ended on the 28th Oct. but as described below was still appearing on the evening of the 31st October.

My screenshot below was taken during the booking process: (unfortunately this is the only screenshot I took and for future reference, this is a learning exercise to be able to take much larger and more complete screenshots in the future as airlines try to rely on tricky T&C that may not appear on the booking site itself but might reside on a different page - see further below).





I genuinely wouldn't have considered paying the $50 ea for a 1hr 45min flight but at $15 ea I thought it was a pretty good price. I did notice that the fare was calculated and then priced with the $50 Economy X fee during booking but thought that it would have just been a Virgin website bug or the maybe correct price would be calculated further on in the booking, hence me taking the screenshot. As it was late at night I thought I would be on fairly good ground to get this error corrected in the next few days as I doubted that calling the call centre at 10pm would have resulted in a satisfactory result.

The next day I noticed that I had been charged the Economy X seating charge of $50 ea for these two passengers and called the Virgin call centre to ask for the difference between the advertised Economy X price and the actual price that was charged to my credit card along with the fares. I was requesting the difference between the usual Economy X fee of $50 and what I believed would be the reduced price of $15. Pretty simple routine request you would think?

This first call resulted in the agent eventually hanging up/or becoming disconnected, so I tried the HUCA method. This second attempt resulted in an explanation from the call centre that the reduced $15 Economy X fee was for exit rows only. At this point, I decided that this might be better pursued by more official channels with better documentation, so I started this process by using the customer feedback form on the Virgin website.

In my claim/dispute, I was clear that I only wanted a refund for the price difference between the advertised Economy X fee and what was charged to my credit card. As I intend to take these flights and the Economy X fee is included in the one Fare transaction with Virgin I didn't want to go down the dispute process with my credit card yet, as its only a partial refund that I'm seeking and don't want to reverse the entire transaction.

Anyway - as a result of this first claim Virgin came back with the following response:


Dear Eastwest101,

Thank you for your email regarding your refund request. We acknowledge the importance of having this organised.
We have reviewed your reservation and can confirm that you made a purchase for your Economy X seat on the 31st of October 2024. Please be aware that our $15.00 AUD Economy X seat is only applicable for new bookings or when managing existing Eligible Flight bookings made between October 21 and October 28, 2024, through www.virginaustralia.com. or via the Guest Contact Centre.

We would like to let you know that we cannot issue any refunds as this is a limited time offer. For more details, please see our Economy X page on our website. Please note that pre-reserved seating is subject to availability and is not guaranteed. Seats may be changed by Virgin Australia for operational or safety reasons at their discretion. Thank you for taking the time to contact Virgin Australia, Marcus. Your utmost understanding is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,



So my response again was an email to them with the same screenshot, with the suggestion that the offer period may have been limited to the 28th October but (probably due to an error on Virgin's website this reduced Economy X advertising) this price still appeared in the booking page on the 31st Oct). I pointed them to the relevant sections of ACCC guidance about errors in advertised prices, in the case of the merchant offering erroneous or out-of-date prices the advertised and displayed price must be honoured and asked for a review of this decision:

The next response from Virgin was this:


Dear Eastwest101,

Thank you for your email response.

Please note that our $15.00 AUD Economy X seat offer is only valid between 21st October and 28th October 2024. There is no price mismatch on the website as we need to follow our rules for offering promotions to our guests so they can purchase it within a limited time.

Moreover, even if you saw that there was a discount listed on the time and date of your purchase, you still missed the promo period. We can't guarantee if there are any discounted Economy X seats available at that time.

As much as we want to help you, we would like to inform you that we are unable to issue any refunds as this is a limited-time promotion. For further information, kindly refer to our Economy X page on our website.

Please be aware that pre-reserved seating is subject to availability and cannot be guaranteed. Virgin Australia may change seats for operational or safety reasons at their discretion. The dynamic nature of seat availability and pricing necessitates real-time updates, and these may change without prior notice.

We need to follow our rules for offering promotions to our guests so they can purchase it within a limited time.

Thank you for taking the time to email us, Marcus. Your utmost understanding is greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards, Virgin Ausrtalia


So they haven't been rude about it or anything, but they seem to be trying to construct some sort of specious argument on several fronts along with a bit of general irrelevant info and standard template copy-and-paste responses that don't address the relevant issue:

Are they trying to argue that:

1. Somehow that dynamic pricing and subject to availability exclude them from price display consumer law.
2. Somehow limited-time promotions exempt them from consumer law to the point where refunds are refused? not relevant in this case but seems to be on very shaky ground if they are trying to make such an argument?

I know this is only a matter of around $35 ea, but its really the principle of the thing to me now, and not reading and understanding the complaint that has got me thinking about how to pursue this while still being able to take the booked flights. Is this really such a slam dunk case of an error in price display by the merchant, or are their T&C's elsewhere in the website able to sidestep this? Is something like the Wayback machine going to be any help in this situation?

I haven't even considered the Airline Consumer Advocate due to its reputation, but have raised a dispute with my local QLD Dept of Fair Trading office with the initial back and forth, I will need to append the second response to that, but before I spend too much time, does anyone have any suggestions about how to resolve this and what other course of actions are open? Just want a reality check if there is something obvious I have missed?

Thanks very much if anyone has any suggestions. Or even a standard formal email or response or other course of action that might get their attention and get them to move on this.

Mods - feel free to move to a more relevant discussion forum if this isn't the correct place.

 

[muppet]

Unfortunately, while misleading, I think you misunderstood the VA promo.

You will see each of the discounted seats has a red symbol on it. None of the forward Economy X seats have that symbol. Looks like $50 was correct and only the exit rows were $15.

Hello all,

I have started a minor dispute with Virgin about the advertised price of some Economy X seats that were selected and paid on the evening of the 31st of October 2024, just two passengers on a one-way domestic economy booking on the Virgin website. Long story short, there was some sort of Virgin promotion for a limited time where Economy X seats were reduced from $50 ea in this case to $15 ea., it must have been a wider promotion for Economy X. Or at least that is how it appeared on the Virgin website when I made the one-way economy flight bookings that evening.

My screenshot below was taken during the booking process: (unfortunately this is the only screenshot I took and for future reference, this is a learning exercise to be able to take much larger and more complete screenshots in the future as airlines try to rely on tricky T&C that may not appear on the booking site itself but might reside on a different page - see further below).

View attachment 414213



I genuinely wouldn't have considered paying the $50 ea for a 1hr 45min flight but at $15 ea I thought it was a pretty good price. I did notice that the fare was calculated and then priced with the $50 Economy X fee during booking but thought that it would have just been a Virgin website bug or the maybe correct price would be calculated further on in the booking, hence me taking the screenshot. As it was late at night I thought I would be on fairly good ground to get this error corrected in the next few days as I doubted that calling the call centre at 10pm would have resulted in a satisfactory result.

The next day I noticed that I had been charged the Economy X seating charge of $50 ea for these two passengers and called the Virgin call centre to ask for the difference between the advertised Economy X price and the actual price that was charged to my credit card along with the fares. I was requesting the difference between the usual Economy X fee of $50 and what I believed would be the reduced price of $15. Pretty simple routine request you would think?

This first call resulted in the agent eventually hanging up/or becoming disconnected, so I tried the HUCA method. This second attempt resulted in an explanation from the call centre that the reduced $15 Economy X fee was for exit rows only. At this point, I decided that this might be better pursued by more official channels with better documentation, so I started this process by using the customer feedback form on the Virgin website.

In my claim/dispute, I was clear that I only wanted a refund for the price difference between the advertised Economy X fee and what was charged to my credit card. As I intend to take these flights and the Economy X fee is included in the one Fare transaction with Virgin I didn't want to go down the dispute process with my credit card yet, as its only a partial refund that I'm seeking and don't want to reverse the entire transaction.

Anyway - as a result of this first claim Virgin came back with the following response:


Dear Eastwest101,

Thank you for your email regarding your refund request. We acknowledge the importance of having this organised.
We have reviewed your reservation and can confirm that you made a purchase for your Economy X seat on the 31st of October 2024. Please be aware that our $15.00 AUD Economy X seat is only applicable for new bookings or when managing existing Eligible Flight bookings made between October 21 and October 28, 2024, through www.virginaustralia.com. or via the Guest Contact Centre.

We would like to let you know that we cannot issue any refunds as this is a limited time offer. For more details, please see our Economy X page on our website. Please note that pre-reserved seating is subject to availability and is not guaranteed. Seats may be changed by Virgin Australia for operational or safety reasons at their discretion. Thank you for taking the time to contact Virgin Australia, Marcus. Your utmost understanding is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,



So my response again was an email to them with the same screenshot, with the suggestion that the offer period may have been limited to the 28th October but (probably due to an error on Virgin's website this reduced Economy X advertising) this price still appeared in the booking page on the 31st Oct). I pointed them to the relevant sections of ACCC guidance about errors in advertised prices, in the case of the merchant offering erroneous or out-of-date prices the advertised and displayed price must be honoured and asked for a review of this decision:

The next response from Virgin was this:


Dear Eastwest101,

Thank you for your email response.

Please note that our $15.00 AUD Economy X seat offer is only valid between 21st October and 28th October 2024. There is no price mismatch on the website as we need to follow our rules for offering promotions to our guests so they can purchase it within a limited time.

Moreover, even if you saw that there was a discount listed on the time and date of your purchase, you still missed the promo period. We can't guarantee if there are any discounted Economy X seats available at that time.

As much as we want to help you, we would like to inform you that we are unable to issue any refunds as this is a limited-time promotion. For further information, kindly refer to our Economy X page on our website.

Please be aware that pre-reserved seating is subject to availability and cannot be guaranteed. Virgin Australia may change seats for operational or safety reasons at their discretion. The dynamic nature of seat availability and pricing necessitates real-time updates, and these may change without prior notice.

We need to follow our rules for offering promotions to our guests so they can purchase it within a limited time.

Thank you for taking the time to email us, Marcus. Your utmost understanding is greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards, Virgin Ausrtalia


So they haven't been rude about it or anything, but they seem to be trying to construct some sort of specious argument on several fronts along with a bit of general irrelevant info and standard template copy-and-paste responses that don't address the relevant issue:

Are they trying to argue that:

1. Somehow that dynamic pricing and subject to availability exclude them from price display consumer law.
2. Somehow limited-time promotions exempt them from consumer law to the point where refunds are refused? not relevant in this case but seems to be on very shaky ground if they are trying to make such an argument?

I know this is only a matter of around $35 ea, but its really the principle of the thing to me now, and not reading and understanding the complaint that has got me thinking about how to pursue this while still being able to take the booked flights. Is this really such a slam dunk case of an error in price display by the merchant, or are their T&C's elsewhere in the website able to sidestep this? Is something like the Wayback machine going to be any help in this situation?

I haven't even considered the Airline Consumer Advocate due to its reputation, but have raised a dispute with my local QLD Dept of Fair Trading office with the initial back and forth, I will need to append the second response to that, but before I spend too much time, does anyone have any suggestions about how to resolve this and what other course of actions are open? Just want a reality check if there is something obvious I have missed?

Thanks very much if anyone has any suggestions. Or even a standard formal email or response or other course of action that might get their attention and get them to move on this.

Mods - feel free to move to a more relevant discussion forum if this isn't the correct place.

 

[odysseus]

I think Muppet is right, regarding the symbols, as well as VA advising that.

The thing that concerned me is the pricing says that magic word "From", saying not all seats may have that price.

I can easily see why you have the impression you do, but equally see room for wiggle room by VA, hence agree it appears misleading but that it's equally possible they charged you 'correctly.'

 

[RealtimeY]

I don't think there's anything obvious you've missed - it seems like misleading pricing to me, though probably not deliberate. I wouldn't read too much into their responses, because customer service staff (especially offshore) not having any grasp of consumer law is unfortunately pretty common.

 

[nancypants]

IMO the addition of the word “from” probably absolves them from any responsibility for what they would see as you voluntarily paying a higher price in this case

 

[oz_mark]

I think the "from" gives them enough wiggle room...as long as one of the Economy X seats (I guess the exit row ones) had that price.

 

[eastwest101]

Thanks all - I did not even see the little red circle star symbols when I was booking.

Interesting to see that the word "From" could be such a loophole for situations like this. Splitting hairs about the front rows of Economy X with Exit row seating and the way the website is designed would explain why I missed this. Plus the general track record of Virgin websites not calculating fares and taxes correctly, and general "borkiness" of the website might still be an avenue or argument I might try to make.

Regarding the word "From" Couldn't an airline just advertise "Fly SYD-LAX from $0.50c" and then sell one seat for the entire year at that price and then continue to leave it there forever? After all they could argue that there was that fare available From that price.....

Might continue to argue the case from as being misleading angle, or the use of nonstandard symbols approach, if only to banish the From practice in the future if I cause enough pain/friction for Virgin about this. Stay tuned, might take a while.

 

[RealtimeY]

Regarding the word "From" Couldn't an airline just advertise "Fly SYD-LAX from $0.50c

I would argue no

 

[aus_flyer]

I saw this and it was pretty clear it was for exit rows

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I think the OP has a point. Virgin may very well be breaching Australian Consumer Law by not displaying the exact pricing for its services. Now sure a lot of people will point to the wording, “from” as a way to absolve Virgin of any responsibility of accurately displaying prices. However, take a look carefully at the screenshot. They selected their seats. Once a customer has nailed down their particulars they need to show an accurate pricing. This would be no different than if they went to a restaurant or grocery store. Indeed, the practice of drip pricing where travel companies show one price but then jack up the price when you go to check out has been outlawed in Australia and many countries precisely because it is deceptive and misleading.

-RooFlyer88

 

[aus_flyer]

I think the OP has a point. Virgin may very well be breaching Australian Consumer Law by not displaying the exact pricing for its services. Now sure a lot of people will point to the wording, “from” as a way to absolve Virgin of any responsibility of accurately displaying prices. However, take a look carefully at the screenshot. They selected their seats. Once a customer has nailed down their particulars they need to show an accurate pricing. This would be no different than if they went to a restaurant or grocery store. Indeed, the practice of drip pricing where travel companies show one price but then jack up the price when you go to check out has been outlawed in Australia and many countries precisely because it is deceptive and misleading.

-RooFlyer88

If I recall correctly, the wording of the promo clearly stated it was for exit row seats.

 

[RealtimeY]

What if you hadn't seen the promo and only saw the seat selection screen as presented above during the booking process?

 

[aus_flyer]

What if you hadn't seen the promo and only saw the seat selection screen as presented above during the booking process?

We can only seen part of the screenshot

 

[eastwest101]

What if you hadn't seen the promo and only saw the seat selection screen as presented above during the booking process?

Yes, in my case I hadn't seen the promo email and was unaware of it. I simply saw what looked like a temporary reduction of Economy X seat selection fees at the time of booking. Note there is no explanatory text differentiating Economy X sests from Exit Row seats in the descriptor legend to the right of the seatmap.

 

[aus_flyer]

Yes, in my case I hadn't seen the promo email.

I don’t know if there was an email but I clearly saw on the website that it applied to exit rows only.

 

[eastwest101]

We can only seen part of the screenshot

Its difficult to screenshot the entire seat selection page on PC as its fairly lengthy, the length of a B737 in fact. I thought my screenshot at the top of that page covered the relevant seat pricing info and selection. Obviously in hindsight I should have taken more screenshots, and this is why a lot of people find large web pages with lots of scrolling pretty annoying.

 

[dajop]

and then priced with the $50 Economy X fee during booking but thought that it would have just been a Virgin website bug or the maybe correct price would be calculated further on in the booking, hence me taking the screenshot. As it was late at night I thought I would be on fairly good ground to get this error corrected in the next few days as I doubted that calling the call centre at 10pm would have resulted in a satisfactory result.

I suspect this will make it difficult - that you accepted the price - even though you believed it was en error.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I suspect this will make it difficult - that you accepted the price - even though you believed it was en error.

You raise an interesting point. Was the price displayed in the screenshot the same as the price they paid? If so then maybe Virgin could reasonably say that they could see the pricing before paying (although again it seems like a form of drip pricing). However, if the pricing is different between the screenshot and the final price they paid then I cannot see how that doesn’t represent deceptive pricing.

 

[odysseus]

You raise an interesting point. Was the price displayed in the screenshot the same as the price they paid? If so then maybe Virgin could reasonably say that they could see the pricing before paying (although again it seems like a form of drip pricing).

From the way it's been written it sounds like it.

The use of the word "from" isn't illegal or banned either. And it's not uncommon for airlines to have different prices for different seating upgrades/zones. Given others have confirmed there was a promo only for exit row seats, I don't see anything incorrect in how it was presented, even though it wasn't obvious just from first glance. "From" is right beside the price, not a fine print asterisk away, so it's then up to the customer to check out other seats, or find the terms of the promo to get some more information.

As another example if you're booking a concert ticket they often have different pricing tiers within the same section e.g. Dress Circle. It's a matter of clicking all the seats to check the price; they don't have to put an explanation that rows aa99 are at one price, and aa66 are at the next and so on. And again, that's not breaking any laws, even though the general pricing for the section will also just say "From 99.99".

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I used this promo and the up front economy x seats priced as full price but I booked the exit rows as those were the ones that were $15. OP is in the wrong here and needs to just leave it at that.