AFF Member Stock Discussion

[cove]

You should be ok getting in @RooFlyer . Go early and sit in an aisle seat if you want to poke questions at the Qantas directors. You will get a microphone to ask questions.
The board may have done rehearsals for the AGM to make it look sweet.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks @cove

Story in today's Oz

Qantas AGM shaping up to be less fiery affair after support from influential proxy advisory firm

A bit of it

The Qantas board looks set to be spared a humiliating spill motion at the airline’s upcoming AGM, after an influential proxy advisory firm recommended shareholders vote in favour of the executive remuneration report.

Last year the remuneration report was voted down by a resounding 82.9 per cent of shareholders, angered by large salaries and bonuses for executives who oversaw the trashing of the Qantas brand.

The result prompted a review of corporate governance at Qantas, and led to the decision to deny former CEO Alan Joyce $9.26m in bonuses, and slash other executives’ short term bonuses by a third.

 

[cove]

Mrscove is the real Qantas shareholder even though the shares are jointly owned. She got them for us in the float all those years ago.
We now don’t fly with QF internationally because they are not good enough. It may change but Qatar is coming.

 

[prozac]

Thanks @cove

Story in today's Oz

Qantas AGM shaping up to be less fiery affair after support from influential proxy advisory firm

A bit of it

Rene Rivkin was found guilty of insider trading over the purchase and sale of Qantas shares across consecutive months in 2001 for a profit of just c.$2,665 for which he was fined $30,000 and did gaol time. Makes one wonder.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 1:08 PM

Mrscove is the real Qantas shareholder even though the shares are jointly owned. She got them for us in the float all those years ago.
We now don’t fly with QF internationally because they are not good enough. It may change but Qatar is coming.

Ah rubbing shoulders with the well healed of the terror fraternity. Not so many now of-course.

 

[cove]

Great memory @prozac. I do wonder who got Rene’s worry beads.
Insider trading is still a crime but very few have ended up in prison.
I do hope you are enjoying the stock markets going up and down.

 

[prozac]

Great memory @prozac. I do wonder who got Rene’s worry beads.
Insider trading is still a crime but very few have ended up in prison.
I do hope you are enjoying the stock markets going up and down.

Chicken feed even then and I look at the more substantial trades in more recent times. Not asking for comments as any allegations could be misguided.

 

[VPS]

My stock market investment

 

[prozac]

My stock market investment


View attachment 411603

We really need a face palm emoji

 

[cove]

With Judo Bank I bought some more. Now have JDO and JDOPA.
One in my family suggested I slow down with investing but it is something I like to do.
Whether Cyclopharm beats QPM will be a wait and see. We hold both.

 

[tgh]

Good luck with JDO , I had a read and decided that fortune favours the brave
With Chinese and US stimulus full on , Kohler suggests blue sky. (trend is your friend)
I tend to agree but opine that hurricanes often appear out of a clear blue sky just when everyone is out swimming without a vest and having fun….
For me , real estate has slaughtered equity gains last few years and any interest rate cut should see more...

 

[cove]

Actually both Sydney and Melbourne real estate auction results seem to be tanking. Buyers are maxed out it seems. Saw clearance rates below 60%.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Actually both Sydney and Melbourne real estate auction results seem to be tanking. Buyers are maxed out it seems. Saw clearance rates below 60%.

Sydney and Melbourne are not the centre of the universe. Plenty more to be had in Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. I wouldn't like to give a view on Darwin though.

 

[SYD]

Actually both Sydney and Melbourne real estate auction results seem to be tanking. Buyers are maxed out it seems. Saw clearance rates below 60%.

I know people who’ve been waiting 30 years for the big Sydney market correction. It didn’t come and unlikely to. The family home averages 5.4% growth pa (CGT free).
This article (slightly dated) gives the gist of things and the sage advice - time in market, not timing the market is better in the long run.

https://www.corelogic.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/12237/220829_CoreLogic_Pulse_30years_Finalv2.pdf

Interesting, some of the other cities with really big spikes might be more problematic in the short term.

Meanwhile back in SYD, the real issue for the so called “housing crisis” is lack of new dwellings for the ever increasing population. All this silly, ill informed talk about “negative gearing” and CGT just stifles investment and new developments. Supply and demand (one tanking and the other on the way up) just means more and more are priced out of the market.

 

[andye]

I know people who’ve been waiting 30 years for the big Sydney market correction. It didn’t come and unlikely to. The family home averages 5.4% growth pa (CGT free).
This article (slightly dated) gives the gist of things and the sage advice - time in market, not timing the market is better in the long run.

https://www.corelogic.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/12237/220829_CoreLogic_Pulse_30years_Finalv2.pdf

Interesting, some of the other cities with really big spikes might be more problematic in the short term.

Meanwhile back in SYD, the real issue for the so called “housing crisis” is lack of new dwellings for the ever increasing population. All this silly, ill informed talk about “negative gearing” and CGT just stifles investment and new developments. Supply and demand (one tanking and the other on the way up) just means more and more are priced out of the market.

At a risk of derailing the thread, I feel you are conflating two different issues (the housing shortage and the tax incentives).

Sydney houses will always rise in value as its a world class city in an amazing country and there will be never be enough houses built to make a glut.

As such housing is very likely to be a winning investment. Negative gearing increases the available capital for investors (especially as the ATO allows negative-gearers to run an "unprofitable" business for decades using interest-only loans). The CGT discount magnifies those gains (accepting that PPOR is exempt).

As such, a higher proportion of established properties end up being owned by investors rather than owner-occupiers. One must accept if an investor sells if it becomes less tax-advantageous, that leaves a property for someone to buy as their own home.

The idea of encouraging development by restricting NG and/or a high CGT-discount to new developments seems sensible to me as new houses are what is needed. The Australian voters seemed to disagree when it was offered to them however. There are other models that could tilt things towards home owners

 

[prozac]

I know people who’ve been waiting 30 years for the big Sydney market correction. It didn’t come and unlikely to. The family home averages 5.4% growth pa (CGT free).
This article (slightly dated) gives the gist of things and the sage advice - time in market, not timing the market is better in the long run.

https://www.corelogic.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/12237/220829_CoreLogic_Pulse_30years_Finalv2.pdf

Interesting, some of the other cities with really big spikes might be more problematic in the short term.

Meanwhile back in SYD, the real issue for the so called “housing crisis” is lack of new dwellings for the ever increasing population. All this silly, ill informed talk about “negative gearing” and CGT just stifles investment and new developments. Supply and demand (one tanking and the other on the way up) just means more and more are priced out of the market.

Talk of abolishing CGT and is so much bunkum. It won't happen and there is no intention to remove them. It is a dummy pass, a feint, a distraction, a red herring designed to take attention away from the privacy reform bill parliamentary discussion. Look over there!

 

[SYD]

At a risk of derailing the thread, I feel you are conflating two different issues (the housing shortage and the tax incentives).

No, not really. Renters are also feeling the pinch and from the perspective of broader investment portfolios, the uncertainty around tax treatment is holding back investors from new property developments.

It would be great if a developer could sell everything to owner occupiers but there’s traditionally been a mix of investors and owner occupier buying off the plan (as well as the developer hanging on to some units).

Sydney houses will always rise in value as its a world class city in an amazing country and there will be never be enough houses built to make a glut.

Yep. Although, it is horribly out of kilter at the moment.

As such housing is very likely to be a winning investment. Negative gearing increases the available capital for investors (especially as the ATO allows negative-gearers to run an "unprofitable" business for decades using interest-only loans). The CGT discount magnifies those gains (accepting that PPOR is exempt).

Interest only loans are actually harder to come by now. For my two properties, I was unable to renew on IO basis several years ago. Going P&I actually increases the tax deduction (negative gearing) while paying down the principle and increasing net equity.

Also, investment properties aren”t always “unprofitable”. Overtime, the rent increases the catch up. During the period of low interest rates, the negative gearing component for interest was obviously significant less.

Whereas depreciation deductions soldiered on. That’s actually one of the perks of investing in new properties! If that goes, say goodbye to new rental properties.

As such, a higher proportion of established properties end up being owned by investors rather than owner-occupiers. One must accept if an investor sells if it becomes less tax-advantageous, that leaves a property for someone to buy as their own home.

Slightly ironically, if CGT was removed entirely, there would be greater turnover of property because a lot of peeps hang on because they don’t want to pay tax on the sale (same applies for shares and other investments). That’s just how we are.

The idea of encouraging development by restricting NG and/or a high CGT-discount to new developments seems sensible to me as new houses are what is needed. The Australian voters seemed to disagree when it was offered to them however. There are other models that could tilt things towards home owners

As above, what incentive is there for a developer if they can’t be certain they sell sufficient units of the plan?

Tinkering with negative gearing and CGT also can impact other investments. Anyone with a margin loan could be adversely affected and of course, our returns on share growth.

And don’t start me on imputation credits. Another topic that most people with no investments have zero understanding of how they actually work.

Bottom line, whenever you read “It’s costing Treasury $x” you need to invert that and say, “Treasury have worked out how they can increase taxes by $x”….

 

[Mr_Orange]

Slightly ironically, if CGT was removed entirely, there would be greater turnover of property because a lot of peeps hang on because they don’t want to pay tax on the sale (same applies for shares and other investments). That’s just how we are.

When you buy off the plan, the CGT clock starts ticking at contract signing so, invariably, 12 months have passed before the sale even completes. This means that the owner could sell one day after completion and still take advantage of the 50% reduction for CGT.

 

[andye]

No, not really. Renters are also feeling the pinch and from the perspective of broader investment portfolios, the uncertainty around tax treatment is holding back investors from new property developments.

It would be great if a developer could sell everything to owner occupiers but there’s traditionally been a mix of investors and owner occupier buying off the plan (as well as the developer hanging on to some units).

Yep. Although, it is horribly out of kilter at the moment.

Interest only loans are actually harder to come by now. For my two properties, I was unable to renew on IO basis several years ago. Going P&I actually increases the tax deduction (negative gearing) while paying down the principle and increasing net equity.

Also, investment properties aren”t always “unprofitable”. Overtime, the rent increases the catch up. During the period of low interest rates, the negative gearing component for interest was obviously significant less.

Whereas depreciation deductions soldiered on. That’s actually one of the perks of investing in new properties! If that goes, say goodbye to new rental properties.

Slightly ironically, if CGT was removed entirely, there would be greater turnover of property because a lot of peeps hang on because they don’t want to pay tax on the sale (same applies for shares and other investments). That’s just how we are.

As above, what incentive is there for a developer if they can’t be certain they sell sufficient units of the plan?

Tinkering with negative gearing and CGT also can impact other investments. Anyone with a margin loan could be adversely affected and of course, our returns on share growth.

And don’t start me on imputation credits. Another topic that most people with no investments have zero understanding of how they actually work.

Bottom line, whenever you read “It’s costing Treasury $x” you need to invert that and say, “Treasury have worked out how they can increase taxes by $x”….

I'll just say that I don't think that obtaining a tax-deduction to borrow money is wrong. Offsetting that against non-investment income (which is what most people mean when they criticise NG) is unusual by international standards though one could argue it helps smaller investors get started. This is one of the arguments in favour of limiting the number of properties someone can negatively gear. One could also postulate limiting the time one could negatively gear (say to 10 years) when one would expect to be in positive territory on a P&I

I also do think there should be some CGT discount to reflect the risks of investing.

I also agree there are complexities. If, for example, as per Shorten, NG was confined to new properties, potential investors would be worried about a smaller pool of buyers when they came to sell on

As you can probably guess, I'm not a property investor. However, even if I were, turbocharging house prices is not particularly in my long-term interest as I have 4 children who will need to put roofs over their heads eventually (and will also need access to nurses, teachers, ambos and shop assistants).

The rental situation is hard. Without a vacancy rate there is no free and fair market (barring going back to live with parents or flat-sharing). In the short-term, removing NG would feel diastrous as leveraged investors would need to hike rents significantly or sell. However, the number of such leveraged investors is also a current problem as high investor-loan interest rates need to be passed on (NG does cushion this but doesn't abolish it).

I do agree with prozac that major change
is unlikely as its so risky electorally. I guess I'll have to try to pass on enough to the children to join in on the game.

Bringing things back on topic, would a proportion of the current $ invested in property make a difference to the ASX if it were diverted into shares?