AFR's Joe Aston goes BAM!

[Quickstatus]

It is not difficult to see that frequent flyer status can be a potential conflict of interest.
Board members often have to place their investments in a blind trust or to divest themselves of such investments to avoid such conflicts. Similarly, attachments of FF number to an official travel booking , and accumulation of FF and SC should not be allowed.

Flights taken in a private capacity - that are paid for by the public official and not reimbursed by the public purse are exempt.

 

[p--and--t]

It was interesting for VA to comment today that they only get 10% of the $250m pollie travel spend when the 'best fare of the day' if applied as it ought to be, would entitle VA to considerably more revenue.

VA's weakness is the limited J seating on their aircraft.

AFAIAA there is no such BFOD rule for pollies. Not sure why this keeps on being brought up.

Perhaps the media should check the facts and publish the rules that apply to pollies.

If it was brought in there would be a different story.

 

[levelnine]

Is there any difference between carrier's in these respects. Across many posts on AFF, it would seem not. So why not a more balanced view.

Yes the board was dysfunctional. But any more dysfunctional than an airline that went into bankruptcy?

Whataboutism at its finest.

 

[Quickstatus]

But any more dysfunctional than an airline that went into bankruptcy?

I guess that makes it Ok

 

[levelnine]

I guess that makes it Ok

No no no, you're missing the point of the Qantas apologists.

Write a book about Qantas that doesn't cast Qantas in a wholly positive light. But what about other airlines?

Write a book about the Australian airline industry that doesn't cast Qantas in a wholly positive light. But what about other countries?

Write a book about global airline industry that doesn't cast Qantas in a wholly positive light. But what about other industries?

And on and on it goes.

 

[drron]

AFAIAA there is no such BFOD rule for pollies. Not sure why this keeps on being brought up.

Perhaps the media should check the facts and publish the rules that apply to pollies.

If it was brought in there would be a different story.

But the AFR first published this story over a year ago. There was more detail and here is some.

Qantas is receiving more than 80 per cent of domestic flight spending by federal politicians, judges and some government departments, as taxpayers incur a multi-million dollar extra bill for the political class’ airline preference.

The average ticket price variance – the difference between the fare paid and the next best reasonable alternative – was more than $280 for MPs and their staff for all flights on Qantas and other airlines, according to travel booking data provided by aviation suppliers to the federal government.

The public service domestic travel policy issued by the Finance Department requests that Commonwealth officials achieve value for money for domestic air travel, by selecting the “lowest practical fare” that “suits the practical business needs of the traveller”.

Despite Qantas often being more expensive, government employees have the flexibility to assert that the departure times and regularity of Qantas flights mean they still comply with the guidelines.

That is despite VA having ~ 10 flights a day CBR - SYD. But just maybe this is the reason they prefer QF.

On Thursday afternoons at the end of parliamentary sitting weeks, the Chairman’s Lounge at Canberra Airport serves premium wines and appetisers to departing MPs.

Virgin’s invitation-only Beyond Lounge for senior executives offers complimentary membership to MPs, department heads and federal judges.

Virgin does not operate the invite-only lounge in Canberra.

Maybe it's time VA opened another Beyond lounge?

Things are a bit different in some Government Departments.

The Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Federal Court spend at least 80 per cent of their domestic flight budgets on Qantas, compared to between 15 per cent to 20 per cent of the value share that Virgin and regional airlines capture.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Australian Securities and Investments Commission and Tax Office directed about 60 per cent of their airfare business to Qantas, compared to between 35 per cent and 40 per cent of their domestic airfare by value to Virgin.

For good measure they had a photo of AJ at the Treasurer's post budget dinner talk at Parliament house.

Alan Joyce sits with Home Affairs head Mike Pezzullo (right), Treasury boss Steven Kennedy (left), Office of the Special Investigator Chris Moraitis, Director-General of the Office of National Intelligence Andrew Shearer and Finance Department boss Jenny Wilkinson at a speech by Treasurer Jim Chalmers at Parliament House in May. AFR

In comparison, for all domestic flights across Australia including for business people and holidaymakers, Qantas flew 38 per cent of passengers and its subsidiary Jetstar flew 23.1 per cent of passengers in 2022, according to the ACCC.

Virgin Australia accounted for 33.6 per cent of passengers and Rex flew 5.3 per cent.

Funny reading the whole article 3 times I missed how much pollies spent on JQ.

 

[SeaWolf]

Thanks for your various posts with facts.

Are there figures for the relative % of domestic between VA and QF for the APS where the actual rules apply?

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith in the Murdoch press reporting.

Just a note that this story has come from AFR and Nine, which are not part of News Corp. or related to Murdoch.

I haven't seen any figures for the APS as a whole. I do know that occasionally this question is asked of various departments or agencies at Senate estimates. It usually results in a "we'll have to take that on notice" and I've not seen any routine reporting that includes this number.

In the case of the parliamentarians and staff, there's an independent body that reports data on their expenditure and that's where this figure has come from. While there's definitely numbers from the Department of Finance on travel expenditure for the broader APS, it seems quite out of date and it isn't broken down by provider.

There is a review on the travel rules currently being undertaken and as part of that they might compile stats from travel records to get a provider breakdown.

 

[p--and--t]

Just a note that this story has come from AFR and Nine, which are not part of News Corp. or related to Murdoch.

I haven't seen any figures for the APS as a whole. I do know that occasionally this question is asked of various departments or agencies at Senate estimates. It usually results in a "we'll have to take that on notice" and I've not seen any routine reporting that includes this number.

In the case of the parliamentarians and staff, there's an independent body that reports data on their expenditure and that's where this figure has come from. While there's definitely numbers from the Department of Finance on travel expenditure for the broader APS, it seems quite out of date and it isn't broken down by provider.

There is a review on the travel rules currently being undertaken and as part of that they might compile stats from travel records to get a provider breakdown.

That’s disappointing that they dont produce figures for the APS where rules do apply and could/should be measured.

We all (should) know pollies is basically a free for all (as I interpret it, here’s your allowance, spend it any way you like) and if there are no rules then they will do whatever is in their own best interest - I know I would.

 

[sudoer]

That is despite VA having ~ 10 flights a day CBR - SYD. But just maybe this is the reason they prefer QF.

VA flights on this route are all operated by Link with Saab 340s - economy only.

Some QF flights (especially at the end of sitting weeks when there's high demand) are operated by 717 (RIP) or 737 with J cabins.

 

[moa999]

Very few companies use true BFOD.. given it would probably increase costs as people would fly the day before and then stay at a hotel overnight.. given BFOD could put them on any flight.

And LPF can be somewhat optimised against lower frequency airlines.
Eg. Give me a departure between 7.15 and 8.45 from X to Y.

And ultimately people will value things like schedule and alternative options in case you need to shift your flights.

 

[Quickstatus]

VA flights on this route are all operated by Link with Saab 340s - economy only.

And?

So are we saying that public officials travelling on public purse should use a flight that is more expensive, with much less availability compared to a less expensive flight with greater availability - on a very short flight?.

How does flying J on these flights make any difference?

 

[sudoer]

And?

So are we saying that public officials travelling on public purse should use a flight that is more expensive, with much less availability compared to a less expensive flight with greater availability - on a very short flight?.

How does flying J on these flights make any difference?

I was responding to an earlier post which suggested politicians were choosing QF over VA on CBR-SYD solely because of the CBR Chairman's Lounge.

I was simply pointing out there were other points of difference between the two carriers on this route. Not making any other comment.

Edit: Setting aside the J cabin, Qantas are operating far more economy seats on this route too.

 

[CaptJCool]

The big battle in the APS was flying into Canberra
Few wanted to do the morning of
Especially during winter
A day trip saw you collect very little “extra” cash
An overnight well hotel paid for and cash to splash

 

[justinbrett]

And?

So are we saying that public officials travelling on public purse should use a flight that is more expensive, with much less availability compared to a less expensive flight with greater availability - on a very short flight?.

How does flying J on these flights make any difference?

It’s basic economics that if you have less capacity on the route (as VA does) it doesn’t take much for the cheap fares to sell out and now you only have more expensive fares to offer. Also then are they connecting to a regional destination that VA doesn’t offer? The system will preference single tickets so QF gets the business in this case.

I can tell you that QF is very competitive with government fares, offering a huge discount for WoAG. The notion that VA is cheaper is incorrect. Many times QF is, especially when booked close to departure, which is common for government travel.

If VA wants more government business, they need to improve their product.

 

[p--and--t]

Maybe it's time VA opened another Beyond lounge?

So correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems….

- VA don't have a Beyond in CBR
- VA don't have a separate Bus Lounge in CBR
- VA don’t offer J seats to SYD (major hub)
- my interpretation of VA website you can only enter single common VA lounge if you have gold status or above (as no J seats to SYD) or use a limited Silver one use pass or buy lounge membership.
- VA offer 4-10 flights per day only in SAABs and only in Y

- QF have 3 lounges
- QF offer J seats
- MPs can book J seats
- J seats get you access to J lounge without CL membership or buying membership or having status
- Most MPs have CL membership and access anyway
- QF offer 7-19 flights per day and offer J seats in 737s on flights at peak times when pollies want to travel

Edited with more lines

 

[moa999]

Would be pretty sure Beyond would also grant access to the CBR VA lounge.

 

[p--and--t]

Would be pretty sure Beyond would also grant access to the CBR VA lounge.

Yes most likely.

If I was in the public eye and just had a coughty long sitting week, making the trek home, and no restrictions on what I could book, i would be looking for a quiet space away from regular travellers and members of the general public wanting to rehash the politics of the week before the flight and a J seat or at least a shadow to relax.

As @drron indicated, VA are doing themselves a disfavour not having a BL or J lounge in CBR

(On a personal level there is no contest between a SAAB and a 737)

 

[justinbrett]

Yes most likely.

If I was in the public eye and just had a coughty long sitting week, making the trek home, and no restrictions on what I could book, i would be looking for a quiet space away from regular travellers and members of the general public wanting to rehash the politics of the week before the flight and a J seat or at least a shadow to relax.

As @drron indicated, VA are doing themselves a disfavour not having a BL or J lounge in CBR

(On a personal level there is no contest between a SAAB and a 737)

Also not even mentioning the meetings, informal or otherwise, that are taking place in the QF lounges.

 

[RooFlyer]

All this is getting a long way from Joe Aston's writings (AKA off topic).

Even though its called 'The Chairman's Lounge', the sub title is 'The inside story of how Qantas sold us out'. So its far more about Qantas and Alan Joyce and, to a lesser extent (to the stage I've read) about Vanessa Hudson being right in lock-step with Joyce and the stuff Qantas inflicted on pax in the past few years.

 

[jakeseven7]

Also not even mentioning the meetings, informal or otherwise, that are taking place in the QF lounges.

Agreed. It’s probably one of the best informal networking spaces in Australia .