Air NZ looking to sell some/all of stake in VA

[moa999]

You're right and FIRB approval is no problem since it's majority overseas owned already. My understanding (can anyone confirm?) is that under CER or other Aus/NZ deals AirNZ could fly domestically in Oz anyway - I've often wondered why they don't. I'm committed to QF as a life member of QC, but it's vital that they have effective competition to control prices. Don't want to bad-mouth Borghetti, but I've been surprised at how much praise he gets for really easy things like spending your owners' money on lounges and fancy seats; surely even the Arab owners must want the company to do the hard yards to make a profit someday. As for private equity investors, the basic rule of investing is never buy shares in an airline, they never make a profit over more than a very short term, unless they have a monopoly.

Correct - Air NZ could fly domestically in Aus...
Much like Eastern Australian Airways for Jetstar is operating the Dash-8s in NZ.

But there is nothing stopping any airline setting up a 100% owned Australian sub, and flying domestically within Australia.
Obviously needs Australian AOC and employing staff under local rules.
- indeed Tiger was initially 100% owned by Tiger Singapore (that has changed)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

My understanding (can anyone confirm?) is that under CER or other Aus/NZ deals AirNZ could fly domestically in Oz anyway - I've often wondered why they don't.

I doubt now would be a good time to try. QF, VA, JQ and TT (along with the other minors) would make it appear AU is pretty much all airlined out! In fact if they did it, (along with selling out of VA) they may find TT suddenly starts a trans-tasman service or even an intra NZ service (I have no idea of the legal hurdles to do that though).

 

[badassunicorn]

If I transfer out of Velocity over to Krisflyer I know I'll have fewer Krisflyer points as the ratio is 1.35 to 1.0.

My question is about potentially transferring BACK to Velocity if I wanted to redeem some (and all this blows over). Is this possible without penalty? It looks like the transfer back would ALSO reduce the points AGAIN by 1.35 to 1.0, which I can't understand.

Can anyone clarify? Is this an option to swap to Krisflyer now and then 'come back' in the future?
Thanks!

 

[thegeekinasuit]

If I transfer out of Velocity over to Krisflyer I know I'll have fewer Krisflyer points as the ratio is 1.35 to 1.0.

My question is about potentially transferring BACK to Velocity if I wanted to redeem some (and all this blows over). Is this possible without penalty? It looks like the transfer back would ALSO reduce the points AGAIN by 1.35 to 1.0, which I can't understand.

Can anyone clarify? Is this an option to swap to Krisflyer now and then 'come back' in the future?
Thanks!

Yes, the terms are weird, but basically it is 1.35 each way. So if you had 1,350 points transferred to Krisflyer, you'll end up with 1000 KF points. If you then transfer this back to Velocity, will end up with ~740 V points.

 

[Ho Really]

My money is on Singapore to increase their share.

They did by increasing their stake from 22.91% to 23.11% via settlement of a series of equity swaps for $3.18 million. We'll wait and see if they go all the way.

Cheers

 

[Bagpuss]

They did by increasing their stake from 22.91% to 23.11% via settlement of a series of equity swaps for $3.18 million. We'll wait and see if they go all the way.

Cheers

I'd still like Delta coming in. If they got 49% share as they do with Virgin Atlantic... They should rebrand VS and VA into Delta and could almost become a World Airline.

However, imagine IAG (who own BA, Iberia, Aug Lingus, Vueling) buying the NZ stake. That would make an interesting relationship with Virgin Group and a great spat with Qantas! They'd want VA to go all out for domination, kick Qantas out of OneWorld and bring in VA possibly, or imagine both domestic players being OneWorld! As bizarre as it would be, I could see it being a massive benefit for IAG if they had the tolerance and deep pockets. But eh, fun thoughts, but not gonna happen.

 

[Dannyism]

the basic rule of investing is never buy shares in an airline.

I have heard this over and over again. (and I agree)

Do you think the Air New Zealand share will go for public offering?

 

[deva22]

I'd love to see VA become a subsidiary or SQ and then become a *A member!

 

[Ho Really]

I'd love to see VA become a subsidiary or SQ and then become a *A member!

I think many would like that and so would I. Since Australia is SIA's second largest market after Singapore, logically they would be the best candidate to buy the remainder of the stock. And they should. Etihad too would be a good fit, but they have too much on their plate already with Alitalia, airberlin and Jet Airways. VA I would think could stretch that. If VA turned out to be a partner of Etihad and a member of Star Alliance, you'd have the best of two worlds. The other candidates thrown around are the Chinese airlines (namely China Southern, China Eastern or Air China). If one of them moved in it would cause issues with QF and its attempt to crack the Chinese market. Either way QF would still have competition. The other airline mentioned here is Delta. I think more in hope than in reality. Let's wait and see.

Cheers

 

[Moindardt]

I'd love to see VA become a subsidiary or SQ and then become a *A member!

Now that would make me fly them. *crosses fingers*

 

[arkady]

SIA has made a token increase in their holding: finance.yahoo.com/news/australasia-emerges-key-market-sia-074400672.html

 

[Chicken]

I'd love to see VA become a subsidiary or SQ and then become a *A member!

I don't think this would happen, ever.

The word Virgin means never get into bed with anyone. Everyone who calls themselve Virgin (Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin America) do not get into bed with anyone, at least not publicly (Star Alliance, SkyTeam, oneworld). They do sleep around everywhere, and I mean everywhere any country when I say "around" (Hawaii, Singapore, New Zealand, South Africa, China, etc), but always done quietly.

They try to do things by themselves (e.g. Little Red), but it just becomes awkward, and not fun, and then they stop. Never truly happy.

It's diffficult to go alone when you try to stay alone (Virgin Atlantic had to pull out from Scotland Australia etc, Virgin America is now finally admitting they are not a virgin and not just sleeping with someone in Alaska but changing last name, Virgin Australia tried going for both the average public and now going after expensive end of society but still not stable and grown up).

Yes, I have invested a bit in a Virgin (Virgin Atlantic), and look where I am now? I'm in Australia and they decided to pull out. I don't even know if I should go and get my things back (like miles). So now, I'm alone again, trying to look for some one else.

It's never a happy ending when you are a Virgin.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

Singapore Air Is Facing a $3.2 Billion Dilemma - Bloomberg

 

[exceladdict]

I'd still like Delta coming in. If they got 49% share as they do with Virgin Atlantic... They should rebrand VS and VA into Delta and could almost become a World Airline.

However, imagine IAG (who own BA, Iberia, Aug Lingus, Vueling) buying the NZ stake. That would make an interesting relationship with Virgin Group and a great spat with Qantas! They'd want VA to go all out for domination, kick Qantas out of OneWorld and bring in VA possibly, or imagine both domestic players being OneWorld! As bizarre as it would be, I could see it being a massive benefit for IAG if they had the tolerance and deep pockets. But eh, fun thoughts, but not gonna happen.

*A used to have US airways and UA in a very similar market.

I can see a few things happening if the scenario went through:
- VA fuel surcharges on velocity redemptions skyrocket
- QF uses it as an excuse to hike theirs

I think DL buying VA would have a similar effect, even if they joined sky team any further drop in redemption value (as per DL) would hurt velocity.

Although a whole bunch of AFF members would have a chance to use their Alitalia cards!

 

[dajop]

even if they joined sky team any further drop in redemption value (as per DL) would hurt velocity.

I can't see joining skyteam being all that beneficial to VA unless they retained a few other key partners as well. In terms of aspirational rewards (for the velocity program) and incentive to retain status for the corporate market, the current crop of partners may even be better than Skyteam. In terms of it's service to Australia, it isn't exactly inspirational, GA, DL & KE arguable the pick of the crop then VN, MU, CZ, MF, & CI. SYD is well served and to a lesser extent MEL.

 

[basso]

Didn't the AN engineering dept and perhaps even the administrators at the time say there had been stripping going on. Like the story of the missing simulator and engines.

Lots of stuff got said, but what people forget is that had the NZ government not re-nationalise Air New Zealand it too would have been grounded very shortly after Ansett.

 

[arkady]

Talks are actively underway for the stake: finance.yahoo.com/news/branson-says-talks-under-way-021809075.html

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Talks are actively underway for the stake: finance.yahoo.com/news/branson-says-talks-under-way-021809075.html

Let's hope this is a positive news story for VA.

 

[pauly7]

Let's hope this is a positive news story for VA.

Surely Branson / Virgin Group aren't serious contenders....
Please please let it be SQ!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Surely Branson / Virgin Group aren't serious contenders....
Please please let it be SQ!

Given RB couldn't stop the sale of VX, I doubt there's much chance. I was more interested (and hopeful) about this statement.....

“There have been approaches from airlines that are considerable and I think that add a lot to Virgin Australia,” Branson said. “Those discussions are going on. So I cannot, I am afraid, go into details.”

I hope "add a lot to VA" is code for greater international partner offerings and maybe even with the ability and desire to inject the extra cash to fulfil JBs vision.