Alan Joyce (AC)

[Pushka]

Actually, all of these awards under the Order of Australia were begun by Gough Whitlam in 1975. Nothing to do with Howard or Abbott.

I'm really surprised that people could be unaware of this, given they get lots of publicity twice a year (New Years' and Queen's Birthday).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Australia

No. It was more of a throwaway line when Abbott knighted Sir Prince Prince. And also they occur twice a year but thought it was Australia Day and Queens birthday.

 

[Flying mermaid]

No. It was more of a throwaway line when Abbott knighted Sir Prince Prince. And also they occur twice a year but thought it was Australia Day and Queens birthday.

I knew what you meant . And yes Australia Day not New Year.

 

[neilmeister]

Wow.... a whole bunch of losers bashing someone for being recognised (well, not all of you but most!). Get a life people, if you want recognition, earn it!

If you think AJ isn't deserving, then go open/turn around your own airline and make stands about important issues. If you think the awards itself are a waste of time, then good on you, your opinion is noted.

 

[RooFlyer]

Wow.... a whole bunch of losers bashing someone for being recognised (well, not all of you but most!). Get a life people, if you want recognition, earn it!

If you think AJ isn't deserving, then go open/turn around your own airline and make stands about important issues. If you think the awards itself are a waste of time, then good on you, your opinion is noted.

Thank you for that condescending character assessment.

Obviously you are a fan of Alan Joyce (good on you, your opinion is noted ). What do you think his qualities are to earn an AC which requires: 'Eminent achievement and merit of the highest degree in service to Australia or to humanity at large'. Note that "Making stands about important issues" doesn't seem to count (thank goodness).

Personally, I don't think he's turned around an airline so much as made it profit from continuing to charge fuel fines after the price of fuel dropped substantially, and selling Qantas FF points to partners and marketing QFF members to those Partners (AKA Qantas Loyalty).

And also personally, I'm content to do the job I'm paid to do (paid extremely well in the case of Alan Joyce) without the gratification or need of a gong suggesting my service to humanity at large. Mr Joyce obviously has a different point of view.

 

[Pushka]

Wow.... a whole bunch of losers bashing someone for being recognised (well, not all of you but most!). Get a life people, if you want recognition, earn it!

If you think AJ isn't deserving, then go open/turn around your own airline and make stands about important issues. If you think the awards itself are a waste of time, then good on you, your opinion is noted.

I don't believe AJ started up his own airline. That mantle belongs more to Branson methinks.

If you cared to read the comments properly you would find that we've commented on worthiness for these awards and many have fallen well short or who receive awards in their own industry. And often the salary to boot. And others have commented on how these awards are initiated almost as part of a well oiled PR machine.

There are many deserving and self sacrificing people who receive these awards. For example, In SA one lady has cared for 74 guide dogs raising them as puppies until they are taken into full time training. Strangely her name has never appeared in the media, her living standards - I'd say they were adequate and homely but not luxury by any stretch. Bet she's never flown business class nor appeared on a red carpet but boy I was so pleased to read her nation had recognized her selfless acts. She does it because she wants to help someone with a disability. This is what these awards should recognize if we want Aussies to have something to aspire to be.


But what narked me about your post is that you called most of us losers and in your last line said we were entitled to our opinion. So, which is it?

 

[neilmeister]

I'm content to do the job I'm paid to do (paid extremely well in the case of Alan Joyce) without the gratification or need of a gong suggesting my service to humanity at large. Mr Joyce obviously has a different point of view.

So..... are you saying that if you were offered an AC you would refuse it? Sorry, obviously you would based on your post, so no need to ask you. Hang on... was that a condescending character assessment?
Making a non-profitable airline highly profitable.... through fuel charges, selling FF points or whatever...(does it really matter here the revenue comes from?) means he has turned the airline around.

 

[Pushka]

Making a non-profitable airline highly profitable.... through fuel charges, selling FF points or whatever...(does it really matter here the revenue comes from?) means he has turned the airline around.

That's wonderful for shareholders and it's good to have a functioning airline for obvious reasons. Competition is good. But I see you've neglected to comment on increased charges to the customers, unnecessary credit card charges, reduction in the value of status credits and FF points, seemingly a reduction in the release of award seats and so on. And the huge drop in the oil price worked magic.

Deserving of a National Award?

 

[neilmeister]

I don't believe AJ started up his own airline. That mantle belongs more to Branson methinks.

If you cared to read the comments properly you would find that we've commented on worthiness for these awards and many have fallen well short or who receive awards in their own industry. And often the salary to boot. And others have commented on how these awards are initiated almost as part of a well oiled PR machine.

There are many deserving and self sacrificing people who receive these awards. For example, In SA one lady has cared for 74 guide dogs raising them as puppies until they are taken into full time training. Strangely her name has never appeared in the media, her living standards - I'd say they were adequate and homely but not luxury by any stretch. Bet she's never flown business class nor appeared on a red carpet but boy I was so pleased to read her nation had recognized her selfless acts. She does it because she wants to help someone with a disability. This is what these awards should recognize if we want Aussies to have something to aspire to be.


But what narked me about your post is that you called most of us losers and in your last line said we were entitled to our opinion. So, which is it?

If you cared to read my post...I did not claim that AJ started his own airline, but hey...

and yes... I call a bunch of anonymous people who nark about someone else getting an award losers...and of course losers are allowed an opinion, so I don't see that I need to choose between the options you have given me.


Sorry to cause offense, I am of course new here, but some of you need to have some perspective on these things.

 

[neilmeister]

Deserving of a National Award?

Why not?

If he diminished your status or award seat availability, I can see why you might not like him.

If you are talking abut increased costs..then why don't you start your own airline, as if Qantas is gouging you will make a killing!

 

[BacchusMarsh]

I see you've neglected to comment on increased charges to the customers, unnecessary credit card charges, reduction in the value of status credits and FF points, seemingly a reduction in the release of award seats and so on.

As did the gong-givers.

"For eminent service to the aviation transport industry, to the development of thenational and international tourism sectors, to gender equity, inclusion and diversity,and to the community, particularly as a supporter of Indigenous education."

So much small-minded sniping on this thread.

 

[theblank]

If you think AJ isn't deserving, then go open/turn around your own airline and make stands about important issues.

Or in other words sleight of hand bookkeeping to make a declining airline appear to be improving, and shoving his personal issue into everyones face.

 

[RooFlyer]

So..... are you saying that if you were offered an AC you would refuse it? Sorry, obviously you would based on your post, so no need to ask you. Hang on... was that a condescending character assessment?
Making a non-profitable airline highly profitable.... through fuel charges, selling FF points or whatever...(does it really matter here the revenue comes from?) means he has turned the airline around.

Frankly yes, if offered an AC for the work I do (discovering mineral deposits, taking a new renewable energy company to the ASX, and promoting the technology internationally, employing people ), even if it was still in the public area, I certainly would refuse it - I would be too embarrassed to receive such an award when I knew there were so many others more deserving.

If you cared to read my post...I did not claim that AJ started his own airline, but hey...

and yes... I call a bunch of anonymous people who nark about someone else getting an award losers...and of course losers are allowed an opinion, so I don't see that I need to choose between the options you have given me.

Sorry to cause offense, I am of course new here, but some of you need to have some perspective on these things.

Well, it takes a newbie to be a name-caller (Honestly? You're really into that?) and to put us all in our place. I mean, we old stagers haven't had that much experience in these things, have we?

But seriously, less name-calling makes it a more civil discussion.

 

[eastwest101]

Well if you were going to be truly cynical you would argue that Alan Joyce turned up and participated in the disaster that was Ansett, and then was given a role in the formation of Jetstar where he had almost unlimited access to Qantas' resources/funds/equipment to establish an operation that eventually grew at the expense of its parent company, but didn't achieve its goal of putting Virgin Blue out of business. Some would argue he helped escalate an existing industrial relations problem into a situation where the airline was shut down and required intervention of the government at the time. Since then he has had to react to high oil prices, terrible fleet choices, a high AUD and then low oil prices, various follies in Asia while neglecting the core business and some accounting trickery to see a smaller and less significant airline than he took over, that is only now starting to discover that its adjacent to Asia, and was running off to the Federal Government for protection only a few years ago. We know its tough to make money in the airline business but even the most ardent fanbois of Qantas could hardly call the management of Qantas as being outstandingly innovative or agile.

Some of those market forces have been beyond his control, and some choices were set in place before he took over the entire group, but many think he's done an average job for an above average salary, and that Qantas can thank its existing dominant domestic market position, the drop in the price of oil, the resource boom, a robust and fortunate Australian economy, and its own staff for its survival, not the actions of one person.

 

[Pushka]

As did the gong-givers.

"For eminent service to the aviation transport industry, to the development of thenational and international tourism sectors, to gender equity, inclusion and diversity,and to the community, particularly as a supporter of Indigenous education."

So much small-minded sniping on this thread.

Actually, I think that giving these awards to people who dont make the national headlines make more of an impact on mere mortals than giving them to people who are already in them. So I am going bigger picture on this one. Having said that, I reckon Twiggy could receive an award as he has given away a lot of his personal wealth to the local communities.

I am quite fine with my perspective thanks, I feel it is quite reflective of most in our community.

And if you'd read any of my previous posts about AJ I am quite supportive of some of the things he's done, and have met him. I just dont believe that such awards are appropriate. I support his actions on gender equality. I know nothing of his support for indigenous education. I just consider that these awards are not for those who are already extremely well remunerated for what they do. So it isnt a personal issue with the man, just the way these awards are handled.

 

[moa999]

- EBIT 1.5% and Return on equity 0.5%. Compared to Air NZ 5.9% and 10.6% respectively
- massive asset write downs, redundancies and favourable fuel prices contributed to improved financial performance t.

No idea where you've got those figures from but they don't look correct. Only one of these airlines took a near $1 billion bailout from the Govt seeing shareholders wiped out and the government owning over 80%

 

[BVT]

I can never understand why people get such awards for - doing their job. Services to aviation, transport and tourism.

I tend to agree, especially for public servants. Some other recipients are deserving, however. IMO.

 

[theblank]

No idea where you've got those figures from but they don't look correct.

I got them from a friend who engaged the services of financial experts to pull this data for a particular reason, and then shared the report. If you really want to doubt the figures then you can pull the public financial records and crunch the numbers yourself.

Also, I am not the only person here who has mentioned asset write offs, redundancies and lower fuel prices, as the main reasons for Qantas finanical recovery, so there is probably a pretty good chance I am right on the money.

 

[Pushka]

I got them from a friend who engaged the services of financial experts to pull this data for a particular reason, and then shared the report. If you really want to doubt the figures then you can pull the public financial records and crunch the numbers yourself.

Also, I am not the only person here who has mentioned asset write offs, redundancies and lower fuel prices, as the main reasons for Qantas finanical recovery, so there is probably a pretty good chance I am right on the money.

Can't speak for asset write downs but even Qantas mentions fuel savings and staff cuts:
"Qantas said the airline was able to secure a $664 million benefit from lower fuel prices through intelligent hedging and passed a proportion of the savings onto its airfares, which it flagged are around 40 per cent lower than a decade ago."
"However, Mr Joyce said $557 million in cost savings generated through the company's "transformation program", which has resulted in thousands of staff cuts, were a more important contributor to the profit turnaround."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-24/qantas-posts-underlying-profit-of-$1.5b,-announces-share-buyback/7779398

 

[neilmeister]

But seriously, less name-calling makes it a more civil discussion.

Good point, well made.

 

[RichardMEL]

Probably unwisely I will put my 2 cents in...

There are many deserving and self sacrificing people who receive these awards. For example, In SA one lady has cared for 74 guide dogs raising them as puppies until they are taken into full time training. Strangely her name has never appeared in the media, her living standards - I'd say they were adequate and homely but not luxury by any stretch. Bet she's never flown business class nor appeared on a red carpet but boy I was so pleased to read her nation had recognized her selfless acts. She does it because she wants to help someone with a disability. This is what these awards should recognize if we want Aussies to have something to aspire to be.

And I absolutely agree with this. Now I don't know this particular person, and there are many out there like that, but it's also possible that they were offered an award and turned it down. Every time a list comes out it seems stories come out of people who do decline. Or maybe she wasn't nominated, or maybe people wanted to nominate her and asked her and she said no.

Not that I do anything useful like this or worthy of a "gong" I think if I were asked I'd have to seriously think about accepting because I am not the sort to self promote or feel a need to see my name in print or have a pin or somesuch. I'd feel to do so would be egotistical "look at moi" kind of thing. I'd be bloody embarassed I think. that's just me though. Plenty do like the linelight (I can think of a prominent "personality" who I always see wearing their pin.... but I digress)

"For eminent service to the aviation transport industry, to the development of thenational and international tourism sectors, to gender equity, inclusion and diversity,and to the community, particularly as a supporter of Indigenous education."

And finally someone did what I was about to do and actually posted the WORDING of the honour. I think this is important.


This is a multi-facted award recognising not only things he has done in his business life ("eminent service to the aviation transport industry, to the development of thenational and international tourism sectors") which includes his time at AN, JQ and QF and like it or not QF as a national icon and the flag carrier has a massive impact on all of those things. And he's been here for over 20 years working and having an impact. Sure people can point out this or that that suits their particular view but overall.... I think it is a worthy PART of receiving the recognition...

but wait, his community work, including ".. gender equality, inclusion and diversity" is NOT just about SSM or the current fuss with Margaret Court (who probably has her own honours no doubt incidently) but over the years he's done much to support the GBLTQI(etc) community from the Mardi Gras to SSM. I get this probably offends some people, again with certain views (and by the way, there's nothing wrong with those views in respect of having them.. that's what this country is about and I'm not about to argue against having them) but there's no doubt he has done a lot in his public roles to support these communities. I'm not a member at all, but I can see having high profile support is absolutely beneficial to groups who feel they are a minority and need voices.

OK he's not been raising puppies or caring for orphans for 38 years or whatever (and do not take this line as any kind of intended put down of selfless individuals because it isn't) but he HAS done a lot.

and finally nobody that I have seen has mentioned the final part of the reason for his honour "...to the community, particularly as a supporter of Indigenous education." I'll be honest and say I have no real idea what this is about right now and just what he's done or been doing but you know what, if this isn't giving to our national community then I don't know what is.

If he was JUST an airline CEO would he deserve this stuff? probably not (yes I wonder about Borghetti though I note his was also for being a supporter of the arts, and sport) but I honestly think there's more to this than just rewarding a high profile bloke

and let's not forget these awards are offered months ahead of when they are officially announced, so anyone who thinks this is "supporting him" in light of the recent public issues is mad, because there's no question he would have been offered the award long before the recent issues such as "pie gate" and Margaret Court.

A poster earlier commented that the process is a joke and just about anyone can and does get nominated and there can be political motivations. Sure, absolutely. No doubt this kind of stuff goes on. I'm a realist. Does that mean this particular award was because of these kinds of manipulations? I honestly don't know. I don't think so, but really i don't know.

I'd also note to the person who commented about Public Servants not deserving of recognition. I fully understand the point though I also feel there are examples where Public Service can be a thankless job in many ways and well underpaid in relation to similar roles that one could get in private industry and, as somebody else noted, often these kinds of things can be a sort of compensation in a way. Kind of like the Universities have long had very generous superannuation plans often near double the norm as "compensation" for lower up front wages. (I've worked in both sectors).

And it's not always the high profile types that get them. I was delighted yet surprised some years back when I saw the name of an ex-girlfriend's father in the lists. Career diplomat with DFAT for decades and in some high power, but probably not overall high profile, posts over the years. While he and I never got on that well (you know when you date the daughter it can be.. difficult ) but I could see the absolute worth in that recognition.

And let's not forget in addition to all those professors and Blanchetts of this world, many of the what 400+ recipients yesterday were "ordinary" folks.. those people who have done the community services for year and not asked for anything... as it should be.

(aside I herd a delightful interview on the radio with a bloke who got one for serving as a JP for decades and his simple job of basically witnessing stat decs and documents and certifying documents and the like had freed up police resources to focus on crime and not having to spend time doing that stuff. Sure, he "only" signed off on hundreds of thousands of documents and statements etc and doesn't seem like much, but he was recognised and good on him).

Finally dont let this post suggest I am a massive AJ supporter. I'm not a massive fan of the man personally and I disgree with some of his business decisions and policies over the years both when I was a QF shareholder and just generally as a flyer. This doesn't mean I will demean his recognition for multiple aspects of his public life over decades.

Given the whole honours system is debateable(clearly from this thread alone! ) but one that exists and in the form it is, I have no issue with this award.