All international travelers will be quarantined in hotels or designated facilities

[p--and--t]

It has been raised before.

Some jurisdictions in Australia have proposed laws that would allow detention of positive individuals who refuse to isolate at home, or are incapable of doing so and are deemed a threat to the welfare of the community. However, those proposals have come under fire both from elements of the press who typically aren't human rights champions, as well as the more traditional champions of human rights.

...and of course the reporters from the media with the most opinions are highly trained experts including decades of experience in every related field with Mensa level IQs and been studying all these specialty niches along with world leading risk analysis skills to advise the public and politicians what should happen.

I am always so heartened to receive their learned advice

 

[glasszon]

Sorry I have not read the whole thread, don't know whether it has been discussed.
All overseas arrivals need to be quarantined in hotels, yet positive cases are allowed to isolate at home.
Anyone feel there is a major inconsistency here?

The problem is if you quarantine people who tests positive, it serve as a major deterrent to people doing the tests and some people would skip the test just to avoid getting quarantined. Lose-lose situation either way.

I think the most logical way is to allow people to have free quarantine if they test positive, but not make it compulsory to avoid the adverse incentive that creates.

 

[Himeno]

The problem is if you quarantine people who tests positive, it serve as a major deterrent to people doing the tests and some people would skip the test just to avoid getting quarantined. Lose-lose situation either way.

Which is why they should allow everyone, both possible infected returning travelers, and known infected confirmed cases, to isolate at home, unless it can be shown that they can't or won't.

 

[glasszon]

Which is why they should allow everyone, both possible infected returning travelers, and known infected confirmed cases, to isolate at home, unless it can be shown that they can't or won't.

Unfortunately politics get in the way, I agree self-isolation with tracking (and heavy penalties for not complying) is just as good as hotel quarantine, but it just won't happen.

 

[Pushka]

Sorry I have not read the whole thread, don't know whether it has been discussed.
All overseas arrivals need to be quarantined in hotels, yet positive cases are allowed to isolate at home.
Anyone feel there is a major inconsistency here?

Once someone is positive then they know exactly who they are and they will be checked on regularly, at least in SA. And if they can't isolate on their own then they may be accommodated in other lodgings. And sometimes that also applies to close contacts. That is what happened in SA when 70 people were identified as close contacts and in order to prevent a wave, every one of those was put into hotel care. (By that stage three people in the cluster were positive). That strategy worked.

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2020

Which is why they should allow everyone, both possible infected returning travelers, and known infected confirmed cases, to isolate at home, unless it can be shown that they can't or won't.

and if they don't cooperate and are positive by then it is too late. And many can't properly isolate at home on their own.

But I'd be very happy to wear a bracelet if it meant I could travel and I could isolate at home.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Unfortunately politics get in the way, I agree self-isolation with tracking (and heavy penalties for not complying) is just as good as hotel quarantine, but it just won't happen.

The thing I can't understand - and maybe there is a solution - is that quarantine at home doesn't stop people coming to visit you?

So infected person can have family gathering, friends, whatever.

I would have thought those testing positive need to be somewhere that can't happen?

 

[Himeno]

The thing I can't understand - and maybe there is a solution - is that quarantine at home doesn't stop people coming to visit you?

So infected person can have family gathering, friends, whatever.

I would have thought those testing positive need to be somewhere that can't happen?

They could always do what Wuhan did at the start of this and weld steel bars across their doors to prevent anyone from getting in/out.

 

[Pushka]

They could always do what Wuhan did at the start of this and weld steel bars across their doors to prevent anyone from getting in/out.

Would that also be called a Ring of Steel?

 

[p--and--t]

Would that also be called a Ring of Steel?

...bit like marriage (but usually made with gold)? [that sorta trapped feeling]

 

[Pushka]

...bit like marriage (but usually made with gold)? [that sorta trapped feeling]

Handcuffs, of gold of course maybe.
But as you well know I was thinking of Dan the man

 

[glasszon]

The thing I can't understand - and maybe there is a solution - is that quarantine at home doesn't stop people coming to visit you?

So infected person can have family gathering, friends, whatever.

I would have thought those testing positive need to be somewhere that can't happen?

The idea isn't to physically stop others from visiting the person in self-quarantine. Given prison sentence have been handed down for people sneaking across state borders, surely emergency legislation can be introduced that states if you get caught having visitors without a valid reason while you are in self-quarantine, then you can go direct to mandatory quarantine + huge fine, and for repeated or serious offenders such as those returning from overseas who breach self-quarantine with a positive test results, a jail sentence?

Ultimately the idea about covid-19 shouldn't be about eliminating all risks of transmission, which is impossible as long as covid-19 still exists in the world. Instead, it should be about adopting measures that allow people to return to Australia safely. Even though I am safely in Australia since the beginning of the outbreak, I am very disappointed at how the Australian govt pretty much gave up its own citizens who are stranded overseas with no jobs or even a valid visa to remain overseas.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Ultimately the idea about covid-19 shouldn't be about eliminating all risks of transmission, which is impossible as long as covid-19 still exists in the world. Instead, it should be about adopting measures that allow people to return to Australia safely. Even though I am safely in Australia since the beginning of the outbreak, I am very disappointed at how the Australian govt pretty much gave up its own citizens who are stranded overseas with no jobs or even a valid visa to remain overseas.

The government has got lazy.

Places like New Zealand and other safe countries, people should be able to return and quarantine at home, what should happen is everyone goes to a hotel they get checked and tested if they are from a safe country they get to go home once the test came back negative, and keep track of their health.

Government said we would flatten the curve, and all the medical officers were saying eliminate it, and when a politician couldn't answer a tough question they just referred it to the chief medical officer.

 

[drron]

Interesting reading the first post in this thread on 27/3-
"The PM says that it won't matter where you live, everyone who returns from overseas will spend two weeks in quarantine. If someone lives in Tasmania, but returns to Australia through Melbourne, that traveller will have to stay in Melbourne for two weeks.

He says the new measures will be enforced by Australia's state and territory governments.

Defence force personnel will be brought in to support state and territory police to monitor people self-isolating.

The new rules begin at 11:59pm tomorrow. '

 

[drron]

The results of Air Canada's and Toronto airport study on Covid quarantine have been released.It certainly is interesting as it suggests that 7 day quarantine for returning travellers should be considered.
It found that 1% of travellers returning to Canada test positive for Covid.80% test positive on arrival and 20% test positive at 7 days.No new positives at Day 14.

Air Canada Coronavirus Study Finds 14-Day Quarantine is Ineffective and Keeps People Locked Away Unnecessarily

Preliminary results from a major study looking at the effectiveness of airport COVID-19 testing on arrival has found that mandatory 14-day quarantine rules are locking people up unnecessarily with zero positive cases detected after day seven of self-isolation. The study commissioned by Air...

www.paddleyourownkanoo.com

This deserves consideration as it would lead to more travellers being able to return plus reduced quarantine costs.

 

[ethernet]

Taiwan and South Korea (and China) can and do use mobile phone locations to track quarantine breakers and contact tracings. Australia is a dumb country. The AFP already has this to track drug dealers etc. Maybe they are punching in contacts numbers, maybe not.

 

[suze2000]

Does seem ridiculous that the first thing people aren't asked is to hand over their phone so that their activity can be tracked.

 

[Flashback]

You could be like the UK and have a faulty app, I've had no less than 5 alerts telling me I've been in the vicinity of someone with COVID-19 for a period long enough to be infected. That was odd, as I hadn't left the house.

NHS Covid app updated to 'fix' phantom messages

People will still see alerts but will now get a follow-up message telling them to ignore it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Since updating, haven't received any more ...... but ....... I never got the message telling me those messages were incorrect.

 

[samh004]

The results of Air Canada's and Toronto airport study on Covid quarantine have been released.It certainly is interesting as it suggests that 7 day quarantine for returning travellers should be considered.
It found that 1% of travellers returning to Canada test positive for Covid.80% test positive on arrival and 20% test positive at 7 days.No new positives at Day 14.

Air Canada Coronavirus Study Finds 14-Day Quarantine is Ineffective and Keeps People Locked Away Unnecessarily

Preliminary results from a major study looking at the effectiveness of airport COVID-19 testing on arrival has found that mandatory 14-day quarantine rules are locking people up unnecessarily with zero positive cases detected after day seven of self-isolation. The study commissioned by Air...

www.paddleyourownkanoo.com

This deserves consideration as it would lead to more travellers being able to return plus reduced quarantine costs.

So the study was sponsored by Air Canada and Toronto Airport, who both have a vested interest in reducing the quarantine time as it would no doubt improve their income stream? Doesn't sound very impartial

In other news, my mother arrived last night and has started her quarantine in Brisbane. Took forever for her to get between the airport and the room. She landed just shy of 10pm but wasn't in the room until after midnight. The usual warm welcome by the police when she got to the hotel, lining the pavement. Strange world we live in now.

 

[flydoc]

Victoria has hit reset on hotel quarantine, with v2.0 to receive first guests on Dec 7. Key points:

- to be run by a new agency, COVID-19 Quarantine Victoria (CQV), which will be overseen by the Vic Corrections Commissioner with the Vic Police Minister taking overall responsibility

- all staff will be exclusively employed or contracted by CQV, and cleaners will work at only one site

- “Staff will be tested for coronavirus daily” - (unclear if this means all staff every day or just a selection) and members of their households will also be offered regular testing.
Note however that the article also references ‘voluntary testing’ for staff, so

- site management to be lead by Vic police with ADF support, and not a private security guard to be seen

- returned travellers to be offered “structured in-room activities” and “better meals”

Time will tell I guess

Prisons boss Emma Cassar to run Victoria's hotel quarantine system

A new agency to oversee the state's hotel quarantine system will be run by Corrections Commissioner Emma Cassar. Victoria will start accepting international arrivals again on December 7.

www.abc.net.au

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Victoria has hit reset on hotel quarantine, with v2.0 to receive first guests on Dec 7. Key points:

- to be run by a new agency, COVID-19 Quarantine Victoria (CQV), which will be overseen by the Vic Corrections Commissioner with the Vic Police Minister taking overall responsibility

- all staff will be exclusively employed or contracted by CQV, and cleaners will work at only one site

- “Staff will be tested for coronavirus daily” - (unclear if this means all staff every day or just a selection) and members of their households will also be offered regular testing.
Note however that the article also references ‘voluntary testing’ for staff, so

- site management to be lead by Vic police with ADF support, and not a private security guard to be seen

- returned travellers to be offered “structured in-room activities” and “better meals”

Time will tell I guess

Prisons boss Emma Cassar to run Victoria's hotel quarantine system

A new agency to oversee the state's hotel quarantine system will be run by Corrections Commissioner Emma Cassar. Victoria will start accepting international arrivals again on December 7.

www.abc.net.au

I also read somewhere that they will have workforce bubbles, so that if a staff is positive only a portion are affected in being quarantined for being a close contact

And 11 designated quarantine hotels