Amex free flight upgrade?

[Moopere]

Hi Random111,

I'm no expert, but I gained the impression that you won't be able to select the booking class yourself. I believe Amex will choose, on your behalf, the cheapest class of bucket available to them on the days you want to fly and with respect to how far in the future that date is.

It appears that primarily R class is used for bookings <21d in the future (therefore R class has to be available), but that T, A, U, X & R can all be used for bookings further out than that. Have a look here for some info obtained during this process: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....booking-codes-for-dj-35665-13.html#post612072

Bear in mind that the Amex CSR specifically told me that they get a sub allocation of the classes, I suspect this is an Amex cap on the number of flights that can be redeemed in any given period rather than a hard limit set by Virgin, but in either event, be aware that if EF shows class availability this may not translate into Amex "free flight" availability.

Also be aware, and its important given your question, that Amex has secured "contract rates" for these fares and they are (apparently) unlikely to be the same rates you will see on the Virgin web site or even the EF site.

When I booked my initial flight, the free one, it is, of course, a Saver type fare. I asked at the time what this was worth if I cancelled it and they couldn't tell me ... the excuse being that it varied from day to day ... seemed odd but ok. I rang back the next day to cancel it, but before I did, I asked what it was worth and the CSR look it up and told me. The figure was quite acceptable, even given the cancellation fee, so I went ahead and used the credit + new money to upgrade to a flexi.

I don't think I should be quoting actual hard numbers here and am being purposely vague. I will say that it was well worthwhile and I didn't have to think about it to go ahead. At the time a full fare flexi PER-SYD return was 299$ each way on the web site ($598 return). I feel like I paid somewhat over half of that in new money+ the credit shell including all fee's and whatnot.

Be aware that in the example you list above, MEL-PER-MEL, I think you will strike difficulty as I'm reasonably sure you can't fly to PER from the east cost on the various Amex free flight offers. You _can_ fly PER to selected east coast cities though.

Hopefully that will be useful as a guide.

 

[Jama]

Certainly on the poverty pack Platinum Amex you can't fly east to west. But if booking with cancelling in mind, booking west to east gets around this to maximize the fare value and save as much as possible on the fare rebooked. I guess the question is, does the whole cancellation, credit shell with VA scenario work with the poverty pack Platinum.

 

[Moopere]

I'm unfamiliar with what you mean by poverty pack Plat Amex.

The example I describe earlier in this thread was with a Platinum Velocity Amex ... hardly a premium card and it worked for me.

 

[random111]

Thanks Moopere!

I have an amex plat reserve card. On the amex website there is a link to a route map detailing where my free return ticket can be taken from-to, MEL-PER-MEL is valid on the map. I haven't actually tried booking it though, so that may be a different story!

 

[serfty]

Do a view source on the bookings page - you will see the booking class and a notional cost.

Here's an example of one I have for MEL-BNE return:

..
var productElement = 'MEL-BNE_R_R,BNE-MEL_R_R'; 
var fareFamily = 'R,R'; 
var catElement ='MEL-BNE,BNE-MEL'; 
var priceElement ='125,125'; 
...

This give a notional value of $250.

From that you have to deal with the cancel fee- currently $80 ...

FWIW, that seems to mean I'd get a 'shell' on this route with a value of $170. Flexi for the same travel is $540 return so I'd need to fork out another $370; then upgrade.

 

[Jama]

Amex Platinum Credit Card as opposed to the Platinum Reserve Card. There is about $200 difference in annual cost.

 

[serfty]

Amex Platinum Credit Card as opposed to the Platinum Reserve Card. There is about $200 difference in annual cost.

It would be either ... the routes are here: http://www.americanexpress.com/australia/campaigns/platinum_reserve/destination_guide.shtml

ISTR There's no specific 'free flight's with the Platinum [Charge] card but with that cardyou can get a 'Free' Plat. credit card which has the free flights.

 

[oz_mark]

Amex Platinum Credit Card as opposed to the Platinum Reserve Card. There is about $200 difference in annual cost.

I believe you mean the Platinum Edge Credit Card, which does have a more limited range of destinations compared to the reserve. The Platinum Edge destination map is at: American Express Australia - Platinum Edge Destination Guide

 

[Jama]

Yes that's it.

 

[random111]

Hey

So I gave this a go, but have hit a road block at the moment and wanted some help!

Here's what happened:
1. I checked Virgin website with expert flyer for a return ticket > 21 days away with A&T class availability, found a PER-DPS-PER return ticket
2. Called amex and was able to book that ticket so I did, price per virgin website for a ticket before I booked in T class going out and A class coming back was ab out $900
3. Waited a week and called back amex this morning to cancel the ticket to get my credit shell, first girl I spoke to had absolutely no idea about anything, so I gave up and told her not to do anything
4. Called back just now and asked to do the same, girl on the phone this time told me the ticket booked into T class on both legs, I was quite happy with that as per expert flyer that would mean more credit! I then asked for the value of the credit that would be created for me on my account, put me on hold, came back with $360, before the cancel fee!! I was shocked! After frustratingly going backwards and forwards I got no where. Even though Expertflyer is saying the ticket is $908 (without taxes and surchages) and now the VA website is showing $960 for the ticket, amex apparently get discounted rates to tickets so the ticket is only worth $360...a $600 discount to amex...yeah right!!

So I'm stuck atm, was thinking to call up virgin and ask them what the value of the tickets is etc...but not sure if I will get anywhere because it was booked through amex...

Help!!

 

[Moopere]

So I gave this a go, but have hit a road block at the moment and wanted some help!

I've only done it once, and only domestic, but I'll happily add opinion

Here's what happened:
1. I checked Virgin website with expert flyer for a return ticket > 21 days away with A&T class availability, found a PER-DPS-PER return ticket
2. Called amex and was able to book that ticket so I did, price per virgin website for a ticket before I booked in T class going out and A class coming back was ab out $900
3. Waited a week and called back amex this morning to cancel the ticket to get my credit shell, first girl I spoke to had absolutely no idea about anything, so I gave up and told her not to do anything
4. Called back just now and asked to do the same, girl on the phone this time told me the ticket booked into T class on both legs, I was quite happy with that as per expert flyer that would mean more credit!

I'm pretty sure you can always check this yourself using the method described here:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....booking-codes-for-dj-35665-10.html#post587011

I then asked for the value of the credit that would be created for me on my account, put me on hold, came back with $360, before the cancel fee!! I was shocked!

Shocked in a bad way I suspect from your continuing email.

My fare, PER-SYD, was worth a similar amount. The thought now occurs that there may be a contracted cap rate. So, despite PER-SYD Saver fares being worth $400-600 on any given day, and perhaps MEL-DPS being worth $700-1000, likewise, on any given day, we don't know the nature of the contracted rates.

After frustratingly going backwards and forwards I got no where. Even though Expertflyer is saying the ticket is $908 (without taxes and surchages) and now the VA website is showing $960 for the ticket, amex apparently get discounted rates to tickets so the ticket is only worth $360...a $600 discount to amex...yeah right!!

PER-DPS on a random week in Jul looks to be about $450 return as a Saver Fare. Roughly the same as the cost to me PER-SYD return on a Saver. My expectation would be to gain a similar sized credit shell PER-DPS as PER-SYD because the fares are similar price and the time in-air is also similar.

However, whats interesting is that MEL-DPS is not direct, you stop in PER (or BNE or SYD), then forward to DPS. I wonder if you are getting stuck behind Virgins atypical A-B routing charges/SC earn? In other words, Flying PER-MEL via SYD usually costs me the same as PER-MEL direct and earns the same FF and SC's, because DJ calculates this stuff on A-B routing.

Your route, MEL-DPS is actually MEL-PER-DPS and return, I wonder if there is some weirdness around the MEL-PER sector? Perhaps its essentially free at the backend? We normal passengers can't easily see this stuff of course, but the thought occurs....

So I'm stuck atm, was thinking to call up virgin and ask them what the value of the tickets is etc...but not sure if I will get anywhere because it was booked through amex...

My inclination, whilst somewhat surprised, would be not to look a gift-horse in the mouth. The credit won't be as large as hoped, but you will still end up with a subsidised J fare to the tune of about 280$

Random dates again, but full flexi looks like about $1300 return MEL-DPS. Subtract $280 = $1020, add 29,800 points = $1914 (value of VFF point assumed at 3c ea) and you will earn FF points and SC's as per a flexi ticket.

Full revenue J fare MEL-DPS = about $2800, so potential saving is $900ish

 

[Moopere]

4. Called back just now and asked to do the same, girl on the phone this time told me the ticket booked into T class on both legs, I was quite happy with that as per expert flyer that would mean more credit! I then asked for the value of the credit that would be created for me on my account, put me on hold, came back with $360, before the cancel fee!! I was shocked! After frustratingly going backwards and forwards I got no where. Even though Expertflyer is saying the ticket is $908 (without taxes and surchages) and now the VA website is showing $960 for the ticket, amex apparently get discounted rates to tickets so the ticket is only worth $360...a $600 discount to amex...yeah right!!

Just to add a data point to the discussion. I've just seen an interesting post on my Velocity history ... the cancelled Saver fare has appeared as a line item, I can see what Amex paid for the fare and what I was refunded. Quite surprised to see this level of detail.

Looking at PER-SYD fares on the day I flew in early JUN I reckoned on the retail Flexi price being about $600. I didn't check the Saver fares, but $400-600 seems about right to me generally speaking. Anyway, Amex did, apparently, pay within the estimated range for the Saver "free" ticket. I received more than 80% of the value of that payment when I cancelled.

Using Amex to rebook as a flexi, which cost me a booking fee and I shouldn't have done that (should have gone direct to DJ), adding about half the retail Flexi fare cost in cash along with the returned credit did indeed get me a Flexi ... so, although I'm not giving exact numbers here, you can see that it ballparks out at about the right price for a flexi revenue ticket.

 

[kamchatsky]

Just wondering, when cancelling the booked Amex flight, the money goes to credit shell for that reservation:

1) How long is the credit last? Is it 12 months?
2) If I have multiple credit shells, can I combine them to make booking for future flights?
3) If 2 is yes, can credit shells of different names be combined (say within same family at same address)?

 

[lobo76]

I sure wish I'd seen this thread before I let my "free" flight lapse last year :/

If I'm a normal Velocity member can I use this method to get to J class? I've got 250,000 points and my parner now works for Virgin so I'm looking at ways to actually make use of the points and the free flight...

 

[Qld4101]

Hi all, I maybe misreading this but does this mean that I can book my Amex/Virgin free flight and then just cancel it and use the credit for a different booking? If so can I do this through Virgin after booking through the Amex center?
Thanks for any guidance you can give and apologies if I have misread the thread to date.
Cheers

 

[Moopere]

If I'm a normal Velocity member can I use this method to get to J class?

I did and I've got no status

 

[Moopere]

Hi all, I maybe misreading this but does this mean that I can book my Amex/Virgin free flight and then just cancel it and use the credit for a different booking? If so can I do this through Virgin after booking through the Amex center?

This is my understanding. Read back a few pages and I think you will find confirmation of your question.

I didn't do this myself, I used Amex Travel to re-book, but whilst this worked just fine it cost me an additional $27 for the pleasure - more importantly, it meant I couldn't modify the DJ booking myself via the web. I had to ring Amex Travel back in order to preselect seating.

 

[random111]

I worked out that the amount I got refunded was the cheapest amount the ticket was ever available for (i.e. the cheapest bucket fare price) even though both legs of my PER-DPS-PER were in T class.

I managed to get $360 back, which is not great, but its more than my annual fee so at least I'm better off!

 

[Moopere]

I worked out that the amount I got refunded was the cheapest amount the ticket was ever available for (i.e. the cheapest bucket fare price) even though both legs of my PER-DPS-PER were in T class.

I managed to get $360 back, which is not great, but its more than my annual fee so at least I'm better off!

Thanks for coming back to the thread and reporting. Anecdotal evidence like this is important for all our understanding.

I was going to flick one of my Amex cards next year given recent drops in MR earn for Government and utilities, however, as you rightly point out, the return on investment is still good. Depending on how you value the points you used to go Flexi to Business, I suspect you still got a really good deal.

Don't forget to do a J class TR so we all know what to expect of MEL-DPS VA J

 

[lobo76]

Thanks for coming back to the thread and reporting. Anecdotal evidence like this is important for all our understanding.

I was going to flick one of my Amex cards next year given recent drops in MR earn for Government and utilities, however, as you rightly point out, the return on investment is still good. Depending on how you value the points you used to go Flexi to Business, I suspect you still got a really good deal.

Don't forget to do a J class TR so we all know what to expect of MEL-DPS VA J

FYI guys, I believe Virgin has brought in new rules that mean credit shells are no longer issued for these bookings